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[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I need a rant and I hope you don't mind.

My mood is so low today and I've spent the last hour sobbing. My husband is out all day so I am on my own. I am beginning to wonder if the menopause has tipped me into  a real mental illness. I am using 2 and a half pumps of Oestrogel plus Utrogestan vaginally every night. I am post menopause but despite all this I woke with a flush this morning and have disturbed sleep. When I saw my consultant she said to increase to 3 pumps after a few weeks but perhaps I should try that now. She also suggested an AD but I'm already taking Venlafaxine. Counselling has also been suggested but I tried that and although helpful it didn't address the physical symptoms of anxiety that distress me so much.

Every day I feel awful  but usually by the evening I'm beginning to feel better and I‘m often my usual self by bedtime. Does this sound hormonal to you ladies? I've got a big event coming up soon and I'm panicking about it, how will I cope if I feel the way I do today? How will I hide my feelings from everyone and pretend I‘m okay? In many ways I'd rather not attend but I want to do things instead if hiding away.

I've had anxious times in the past but there has always been a reason and I've recovered but this time I seem to be losing the battle to stay afloat. Not meaning to be dramatic but I feel the same way Carol Vorderman before she got her HRT right, she said that it was only the thought of her children that stopped her wanting to kill herself.

I also worry why my meds aren't working. Everyone points out that Utrogestan can make you feel depressed but up to now I  bleed if I don't use it every day and I  have to work up slowly to 3 pumps of gel. I think some ladies use more pumps but I was told that 3 is my limit because I am over 60.

Perhaps HRT isn't the main problem, maybe it's me. I barely recognise myself from my pre meno days and maybe I'll never get my life back. If so how do I live like this, being scared and panicked by everything that I used to enjoy?

Sorry for the depressing moan but I'm sure I'll be understood and not judged harshly. 7 guess I'm just having a despairing day!

Wishing you lovely ladies of the forum well and thank you so much for reading.

K.

[Conolly]

Hello Kathleen,


So sorry you're feeling low. I can empathise with feeling awful in the morning and getting better as the day goes by. It's probably hormonal but my cortisol levels have being tested for a while and are ok so it's likely that this has a brain component, serotonin, norepinephrine or dopamine. Were you an early bird before the hot flushes and crappy sleep?
If Venlafaxine is doing nothing for you can you ask your doctor if there's anything else to try? My prescription is in the drawer 😬 couldn't take it after reading the leaflet.
Calm app has helped me when I was dealing with too much stressful things at the same time: perimenopause, health anxiety, family and financial issues.
Physical exercise is also important. Endorphins and so on...
I'm sure your adrenaline (epinephrine) levels must be high but it has the good side of preparing you to react to stress, so you will be able to pull yourself together for the upcoming event.
Try to distract and keep your body and mind busy with things you enjoy or find challenging. Easier said than done but it's worth the effort.
We're always here to support you, pm me anytime of day and night.
🤗
Conolly X

[Juliet]

I empathise  it is horrible when you are in the midst of it and have to try an act 'normal' infront of others. I have two graduations next week (mine and daughters) and have been feeling very anxious about not being able to enjoy them and all the logistics in going etc. However, for the last couple of weeks my anxiety has really reduced, apart from a few day blip as I changed HRT, so I am hopeful I am beginning to feel the benefits of hormones after 5 months on HRT (was femoston 2/10 and now oestrogel and daily utrogestan) - so far so good on daily prog, but I think I might be one of those who finds progesterone calming although early days on new regime. I know it is hard to think straight when you are feeling like you are, but try to work out when you began to feel worse, was it after you started taking progesterone daily? or when you increased oestrogen? One thing I have learnt from the amazing women on this site is to not chop and change things constantly, but give a regime at least 3 months and then try to alter one thing at a time. Maybe try the 3 pumps and give that a good amount of time before tweaking something else. Hope you find some peace soon. Mine feels fragile, but I am hoping I am on going in the right direction.

[Kathleen]

Hello Conolly.

Thank you so much for your response. Earlier in my meno journey I often woke with adrenaline surges but now I don't feel too bad on waking and my anxiety/ tension seems to be worse in the afternoons.

I agree that distraction and exercise is very helpful and I do my best to incorporate these into my day.

Your offer of a pm is extremely kind and very much appreciated!

Wishing you well.

K.

[Kathleen]

Hello Juliet.

Thank you so much for your post.

I take your point about chopping and changing and I agree that we have to try and work out our responses. Wouldn't it be great if someone could give us a definitive answer about these hormones and some reassurance that a particular regime is right for us as individuals. Perhaps we should consult Endocrinologists ?

I think feeling that you are moving in the right direction is very important and gives a sense of hope!

Wishing you well.

K.

[puddlesmum]

Hey Kathleen

I'm still in peri and the anxiety for me is the worst ever. I'm on 3 pumps of Oestrogel and it took a good 18 months for it to work for me. I was without it for a week and I feel like I've gone straight back to step one again. I wake terrified in the mornings when the night before I've been my old self and I think it's to do with the cortisol. I have been trying to use Photoserine thingy that's supposed to help cortisol but it's done nothing. I'm hanging on with my fingernails but I know that when it lets go of me I'll be back to my happy self again, it's just having that faith to carry on.

Have you tried hypnotherapy? I try to have it each week but I was doing so well the last few months I managed without it. Until she came today and I just cried myself into a trance. But it really does help.

What I also do to try and stay sane is think about what I ate last week in detail. Sounds strange. But if I can't remember what I ate last week, then I know this time next week I probably won't remember how I felt this week. What I mean to say is, a week seems such a long time, but in reality it isn't. If we can forget things we did so easily, then perhaps that's how we should treat the anxiety?

Big hugs

xx

[Tempest]

Hello, Kathleen.

I'm so sorry you're continuing to feel so badly. I really do sympathise.

I would take on board what Conolly suggested too and ask for a review of the Venlafaxine. I know some do well on this, but I have recently tried for a third time to use this medication for migraine phophylaxis under close medical supervision and I found it much, much too stimulating with too many side effects. I had to stop it, and am still dealing with withdrawal (the withdrawal triggered a very severe migraine indeed - but this is probably unique to my situation). It also has a very short half life, which means if you are even a couple of hours late with dosing it can have unpleasant consequences - as I am very sensitive, this would be a particular problem for me if I needed to take it late for any reason.

After reading many, many posts on here and taking note - I see that of all the AD's that ladies take alongside their HRT that a small dose of Citalopram seems to be well tolerated and particularly effective for anxiety. You might remember Yammy who started this not long ago, and had good success after having truly awful anxiety? I think it's worth discussing with your GP.  Another option may be Mirtazipine - Dazned had very good success with a small dose of that and in fact came off her HRT as she found that the Mirtazipine was all she needed.

I do think your symptoms re: mood are following a typical diurnal rhythm of improving in the evening indicative of anxiety and possibly depression - there is no shame in this as this is a very, very tough time in life and sometimes HRT just isn't enough to fix it - especially when we have struggled with symptoms for so long. It really takes a toll over time.

I hope this helps. Much love. xxxx

[jillydoll]

Hi Kathleen,
I'm so sorry you feel like that, I wish there was more I/we could do for you, wish I had a magic
wand, you could have it, with the greatest of pleasure.
I've been thinking about you, and was wondering if you have any pets.
I know this may seem.........stupid? But I have a dog, and walking her really helps me.
I'm not suggesting that you have a puppy, or anything like that, you could possibly get an older dog, that's, say already house trained, that you could try and focus on, my dog helps me in that way.
She gives me cuddles when I feel low, she gets my mind off my anxiety, and walking is a great way to get some fresh air, and clear the mind. Even if it's just a short walk around the block, it helps me by getting out the house for a while. She's also there to talk to, when there's no one else around.
She's a god send to me.....
It's just a thought, as I'm trying to find ways of helping you.
Hope you don't mind me suggesting this, my Nan, had budgies, and they really gave her something to focus on. It doesn't have to be a dog or a cat, could be anything......maybe not a snake though,
that could become tricky.........lol

Take care,
Jdxx
Ps/ and I'm not suggesting in any way shape or form that that would be a cure or a solution, it's just a thought, and they do seem to help people.. xx

[Conolly]

Hello JD,


That's such a lovely idea 💕🤗


Conolly X

[Annie0710]

Kathleen have you ever thought of or been offered testosterone?

For me testosterone has given me my life back.  I'm more sociable, have gained some confidence and even taken up a sport !

Just trying to think of other things for you honey x

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

Many thanks for your thoughtful replies, it helps so much to be listened to and understood.

Puddlesmum - sending hugs to you. I read your post about running out of gel and how it affected you and I totally sympathise. The frustration of going back to square  one is hard to take.

Tempest - I will try and get an appointment with my GP to discuss meds including Venlafaxine. I know it has a reputation for being good for anxiety but I certainly haven't felt the benefit. Your point about diurnal rhythms and anxiety and depression is very interesting. Many women state that they feel so much better in the evening so perhaps there is also a connection with hormone production.

Jillydoll - pets are a lovely idea. We always had cats but have been pet free for a while. Having said that I look after various neighbours cats and I have a special black Labrador friend called Bertie. I may look into some other kind of pet though.

Annie0710 - your mention of testosterone reminded me that when I tried Tibolone, which is a more androgenic HRT I did notice more energy amongst other things. Sadly the flushing persisted which is why I moved on to something else. I will mention testosterone to my consultant, at my last appointment she said she wanted to get my estradiol levels up to 400 pmol so I'll probably  need another blood test first.

You've given me lots to think ahout ladies for which I'm truly grateful.

Thanks again and wishing you all well.

K.

[Roseneath]

Kathleen. I just wanted to say my thoughts are with you. Unfortunately what you describe is completely 'normal' for a Prei/Meno lady which is like a bizarre and cruel black comedy we are all players in unfortunately. I have been so very up and down for the past 3 years and the downs are really terrible. I feel there is nothing that really helps me in the ' down' days. Part of me knows what I should be doing; exercise, green tea, keep busy etc etc but it is so hard when the gloom and anxiety set in. I have just found a GP (female over 45 hurrah)  (the 6th I've seen at my practise about Peri symptoms) who finally I think ' gets it'. I had a double appointment with her and we have a plan for me . I felt so much better afterwards after 3 sleepless worried nights. She has signed me up for an NHS course called Beating the Blues and also to see and NHS Cogative Behaviour Therapy councillor.  Maybe try and find a GP or another surgery where you can see someone who you feel understands.  I know there are very little things to try when you feel that hormonal churn but I have found these tips useful.  Put some music on loud. Either something you don't usually listen to; Radio 1 or something you used to like (Barry Manilow for me!) It will change your mood. Eat little and often (milkshakes and nuts/fruit or get a sticky bun!). Try and App on Mindfullness like Headspace or Pacifica - they are free and have 5-10 minutes on Anxiety. If you are a reader get some comfort easy reading. These things may distract and provide a rest from the emotional churn. I am on Proprananol for anxiety which I do find helpful (but I have always had a high pulse rate and slightly high BP so maybe that is why is suits me).  On my bad days realistically non of the above really work so I just put a dot in the diary 3 days from now and tell myself that will be a bteer day.

[Tempest]

Roseneath, what a lovely helpful post! I have picked up a lot of tips there - but can't quite go with the Barry Manilow!

I do wish you more settled times too - and for all of us. Hugs! xxxx

[Miabella]

Hi Kathleen,

I could have written the bit of your post where you say you are always better in the evenings - that's exactly me too. I am just coming through a truly horrible few days - I have no words to describe how awful it feels - and the really cruel twist is that when you are in the midst of a bad spell you feel it will never pass. So I really do understand how you're feeling.

There are loads of ‘coping methods' out there but when i'm At my worst nothing makes me feel better. The only 2 things that make the bad spells a tiny bit more bearable for me are walking, and talking to close friends or family about how  I feel. It can't be a lot of fun for them but it does somehow ease the horrible feelings for me.

I also have your problem of thinking into the future and worrying about things I ‘have' to do or that I will have to ‘get through'. The only thing I can suggest is that you build safety nets for yourself beforehand - if you're meeting a friend for coffee, send her a message before you meet saying you don't feel good, you've no idea how you'll be when you see her etc - you're sure to get a nice message back encouraging you to meet anyway and also it takes a bit of the pressure off for you, you don't feel you have to be OK when you see her.   If you know anyone else going to the wedding then do the same - explain how you are and maybe ask if you can go along with them, arrange to sit with them - it may mean having to bear more of your soul than you would otherwise want to, but if needs must then just take a deep breath and do it. A counsellor described this to me as building up safety networks and I find it does help.

I was given a good tip by another fellow suffer - she writes a ‘What is Reality' list that she can look at in her darkest moments. It might say things like ‘Everytime I have felt like this before it has always passed, and sooner than I could have imagined' or ‘When I feel bad I always think I will never get better but I always do' , anything that you have trouble believing when the anxiety is controlling your thoughts. The idea is that you carry this with you and read it, over and over again if need be, in the bad spells.

One final thing I wanted to say. I also, funnily enough, read the Carol Vorderman quote recently about how only her children kept her from taking drastic action. More than 40 years ago, a close family member of mine committed suicide. The effect that had on myself and other family members still causes reverberations today, all those years later. Suicide leaves a terrible, lifelong burden for those left behind - I'm sure if they realised that, many contemplating it would not go ahead. It is never the right answer.

Hang on in there Kathleen - when you are going through hell, keep going - there is light at the end of the tunnel

Xx

[Tempest]

Miabella - that is an awesome post too! Considering what we as women are going through at this time, we have remarkable resilience and insight even in the middle of the storm even though it is unbearably hard at times and doesn't seem that way (now you can see how I chose my forum name)!

I am so very sorry to learn of your family member - it's true that the ripples from suicide never truly die away.  Much love! xxxx