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[Sunnydays]

There's possibly no right answer to this one.... I'm 55, about  3 years post meno and been using her for about 2 years. Estradot patch with a progesterone cyclical rather then continuous. I've always tried to keep the oestrogen dose as minimal as possible and about 6 months ago changed from a 25 patch to 37.5. I only did this because supply of 25 was unreliable. I cut a bit off the end of the 37.5 to reduce the oestrogen as I have it stuck in my head to keep levels to he minimum needed - and of course, the more oestrogen, the more progesterone needed.
The thing is I think I can say in this time I just haven't felt brilliant. It's most probably coincidence that I have succumbed to various viruses - all the usual ones - a bad cold 5 weeks ago a sickness bug now. On both occasions I've had such painful flu like muscle and joint ache. But I also get this ache intermittently as well. Eg today was the first day of eating after tummy bug, and I was beginning to feel okish. tummy was ok at first then needed the loo 2 or 3 times but this horrible aching has returned! I can feel it over my body.
I know the hrt won't give me  the viruses but I wonder if maybe having this slightly higher dose of oestrogen is a bit too high for me? I feel quite low mood often tearful (no wonder as I keep getting unwell) and not so much energy.
I've had blood tests which discount about everything.
I wondered what you ladies might think. If it's not the hrt increase I wondered about adrenal fatigue? Thank you

[Dancinggirl]

The viruses gong round at the moment are ghastly. They will give you aches and pains injoints and muscles.
You need to slowly introduce food, starting with very small amounts With simple things like toast and honey. Give yourself time to fully recover - get some fresh air, take some vitamins to get yourself back on track.
Use the full 37.5 patch and see how this goes - it's still a very low dose. DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi Sunnydays - I agree with Dancinggirl not to underestimate the effect of viruses on how you feel. One thing is pretty certin though, that a slight increase in oestrogen should not make you feel tearful, nor lacking in energy - quite the reverse! It is more likely that you still need a higher dose of oestrogen to feel at your best 37.5 mcg is still a pretty low dose and in your position I would want to aim eventually for the standard post-meno medium dose of 50 mcg in order to feel well most of the time if you can. I think it is a mistake to try to keep the levels that low especially as you are still so young - and this dose in any case is not licensed for osteoporosis protection (although any oestrogen provides some benefit re bone loss).

Consistent lack of energy even at an average dose of oestrogen and if your diet and exercise regime are optimal - could be due to low tesosterone ( have we discussed this before) and low libido would be the obvious indication of this.

I hope you are feeling better now?

Hurdity x

[Wrensong]

Hi Sunnydays, as the others have suggested, I don't think the slight increase to a still rather low dose of oestradiol would have contributed to joint pains & low mood.  In fact I noticed my mood was better on trials of higher dose oestrogen, but unfortunately had to revert to a 50mcg combi patch (which I absorb poorly) due to problems with Utrogestan. 

It's understandable you should be feeling low if you keep getting horrible viruses & joint pain & like you I would want to do something about it. 

One of the first things I noticed when I started HRT was that my joint pains disappeared.  In the 2+ years I've been on it, I've also had fewer colds I think, than at any other time of my life.  Immediately prior to starting HRT, I had such bad flu 2 years running that it scared me, so it's been a relief to get through the following 2 winters with only 1 or 2 minor colds. 

I really understand your desire to keep your HRT dose as low as poss - I was shocked when having agreed to start HRT on the understanding it would be ultra-low dose, I discovered I had in fact been put on a medium dose patch!  But as Hurdity says, 50mcg is the minimum dose licensed for osteoporosis prevention (I have osteopenia) & is standard for women post-meno. 

I wonder whether you might in fact feel better on a little more oestrogen - the standard 50mcg, though this might mean more progesterone too (you didn't say how much prog you currently take), so you'd have to get that checked out first if you did want to give it a try.  When I got over my shock at being on a higher dose than I'd wanted, I told myself if I was going to use HRT at all, I might as well have enough to get the full benefits.  Hadn't counted on being unable to absorb the stuff well - but that's another story! 

This is only me thinking out loud with my Sherlock hat on & if you are not happy with the idea of going any higher, please don't - we all have to be as comfortable as poss with what we decide for peace of mind & anything that adds to your worries will not make you feel better.  I hope you manage to work out what is going on though & will soon start to feel really well.

[Sunnydays]

Thank you so much ladies for giving the time to your replies. I'm pleased to say that I was able to return to work today as I felt so much better. I ate small amounts regularly and rested so it did  the trick.
Re the hrt I completely take on board the points you make and yes, I agree that if I'm going to take hrt I just as well take the strength I need or it's rather pointless ( a bit like always taking half a paracetomal for headaches and wondering why it never goes!)
When I changed the patch yesterday I didn't cut any off so hey, I'm now on full does 37.5! I'll let you now how I find this dose.
Re the testosterone, I'm pleased to say that libido side of things are all very good! I do exercise and I have a good diet however with this latest virus we had a family  chat and it seems the consensus of opinion is that I'm not eating enough and need to eat more protein and more generally. This may be the reason for the low immunity at the moment.
Thanks again for your support and I'll keep you posted x

[Wrensong]

So pleased you are feeling so much better & that the family chat has thrown up something simple to work on to improve your immunity.  If you are undernourished as you now suspect, the fatigue & low mood could well be down to this.  I've found since the start of peri & continuing right through to post-meno now, that I need good quality protein at every meal, otherwise blood sugar stability is a problem. 

Smaller meals than before menopause are easier on digestion, trying not to go too long between main meals & having healthy snacks if need be.   Fish, lean meat, beans & pulses, complex carbs, plenty of colourful fruit & veg, nuts & seeds & a good amount of dairy if you're not vegetarian/can tolerate these foods.  We all know the drill, but at this confusing time in our lives it's so easy to miss what the body is crying out for! 

Still learning not to keep pushing through & that rest is more essential than ever, especially when sleeping at night is a challenge.  Blimey - didn't see this lot coming! 

Hope you will feel better on the full patch dose too.
Wx

[Sunnydays]

Well now I have a full blown head cold. Have had 2 colds already in October, followed by that awful tummy bug and now another cold! I know in the whole scheme of things these are minor however I ache and pain all
over  with them and feel awful. I don't feel I have the energy to endure being unwell yet again. So irritable with it as well! 

[Wrensong]

Oh Sunnydays - how horrible for you.  I think you said you'd had blood tests which came back OK - do you know whether these included a full blood count (almost certainly did) & Vit D?

All I can suggest is to keep on with the plan to make your diet more nutritious, as if you have been running low on essential nutrients it will take time to turn around the effects of this.  The other thing is that the older I get, the more I find that rest really helps speed recovery - in a way I didn't need to consider when I was younger. 

I really hope you soon start to feel so much better, one infection after another is a complete misery.  Wx

[Dancinggirl]

Great advice Wrensong

We women are not good at resting - really allowing the body to recover is sooo important.  Diet is very important - as you had a tummy bug, you are probably depleted in vital nutrients. Eating well is of course essential but this is a good time to take some good supplements to aid the recovery and boost the immune system. Feroglobin capsules are good - lots of B vitamins and iron. Add in some Vitamin C, Zinc, vitamin D pills for good measure - Vitamin D is really important at this time of year.

Sunnydays - I wish you a speedy recovery but do take it easy.  DG x

[Sunnydays]

Thanks again! I have restarted Menopace  which has all the vitamins and minerals. IF I eat any more oranges I'll turn into one! The docs did so a full blood count as far as I can see and all these minerals etc were fine. Specifically checked for vit d also. I've had low lymphocytes for ages though and perhaps this makes the difference. I've also today found some echanacia drops which I'm having

[Wrensong]

Sunnydays - like you I've had low lymphocytes on every FBC as far back as I can remember.  One GP told me some people just do have a below average number, so she wasn't worried about that, but an Endocrinologist said they can be low in patients with chronic auto-immune conditions & I have Hashimoto's, so wondered whether you had any chronic conditions that could explain the low lymphocytes.

[Sunnydays]

I don't have any that I know of.
About 8 years ago the doc  contacted the endocrinologist who said just as your GP said - some people do and it's fine if you're healthy. But did say it could be underlying auto immune etc but don't know if I've been tested for that.
I do niggle at back of my mind that I might have something serious wrong!

[Wrensong]

That's only natural Sunnydays.  If you get another infection shortly or it takes you ages to get over the cold, might be an idea to go back to your GP & have a good heart to heart, to make sure he/she really understands how under par you've been for quite a while.  Meanwhile, I hope you soon start to feel better on a more nutritious diet & that you can get plenty of rest to help your recovery.

[Sunnydays]

Thank you for kind comment Wrenong. I am taking yours and DGs advice re resting, and I shall go to the doc if this persists.

[Sunnydays]

Interesting - had phone call from gp that the tummy bug I had week before last was actually bacterial food poisoning! I don't feel quite such a wimp now in terms of all the bugs I've had. Perhaps this explains why I still feel that bit below par and I was vulnerable to the head cold. It does mean antibiotics unfortunately but I know my tum isn't right.