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Author Topic: never in my wildest dreams  (Read 9889 times)

Hurdity

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Re: never in my wildest dreams
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2017, 04:43:24 PM »

Hi Izetta

The first thing to say is that the "bio-identical" hormone therapy regime you are using which you rightly say are expensive - is not approved by Governments in either UK or US ( nor Aus) - depending where you're from!

The main hormones taken as part of HRT - as in estradiol and progesterone - are available in UK through NHS and in US/Aus through your regular health-care practitioner. They are more commonly referred to by the medical profession now as BODY-identical hormones ie structurally identical to the hormones our own bodies make. The only hormone not easily available on NHS in UK is testosterone, but in Aus there is a licensed cream Androfeme (sp?). Not sure about US.

After 3 weeks you most certainly should have noticed some difference - depending on what symptoms you want to treat, Hot flushes often diminish within days using transdermal HRT ( not creams - but gel or patches) and tablets work often within a couple of weeks.

Unfortunately the BHRT and compounding pharmacies are just a big commercial con designed to make a lot of money out of women at this time of their lives! Your oestrogen dose is extremely low - and even if it was high enough to make a difference to your moods (which it isn't likely to be as quite high oestrogen doses are needed) then the progesterone dose is insufficient to protect your womb from thickening therefore increasing your risk of endometrial cancer

Please ditch this treatment asap and find a proper one that has a chance of working.  You certainly don't need to wait 3-4 months for HRT to work on physical symptoms - some mood effects may take longer than the physical symptoms but important to persevere (as it sounds like you are prepared to do) - and not to be tempted to take anti-depressant medication while the HRT is working its magic and the ADs may well dull your symptoms so you won't know what's what.

You need to bring your oestrogen levels up sufficiently to raise your mood and take sufficient progesterone to protect your womb. Adding testosterone can come later. Also depends where you are in menopause - if you are peri-menopausal then you need to take the progesterone cyclically to induce a withdrawal bleed like a period.

Here is an extract from the position statement of the North American Menopause Society:

http://www.menopause.org/docs/default-source/2017/nams-2017-hormone-therapy-position-statement.pdf

COMPOUNDED HORMONES
Government-approved bioidentical (similar to endogenous) HT, including estradiol, estrone, and MP, are regulated and monitored for purity and efficacy, sold with package inserts with extensive product information (based on RCTs), and may include black-box warnings for AEs. Compounded hormone therapies are prepared by a compounding pharmacist using a provider's prescription and may combine multiple hormones (estradiol, estrone, estriol, dehydroepiandrosterone [DHEA], testosterone, progesterone), use untested, unapproved combinations or formulations, or be administered in nonstandard (untested) routes such as subdermal implants, pellets, or troches.

Compounded HT has been prescribed or dosed on the basis of salivary hormone testing; however, salivary testing for HT is considered unreliable because of differences in hormone pharmacokinetics and absorption, diurnal variation, and interindividual and intraindividual variability.37-39

Prescribers should only consider compounded HT if women cannot tolerate a government-approved therapy for reasons such as allergies to ingredients or for a dose or formulation not currently available in government-approved therapies. With interim guidance on compounding safety and quality control from FDA, quality control of compounded HT may improve.

Key points

Compounded bioidentical HT presents safety concerns such as minimal government regulation and monitoring, overdosing or underdosing, presence of impurities or lack of sterility, lack of scientific efficacy and safety data, and lack of a label outlining risks.

Salivary hormone testing to determine dosing is unreliable.

Prescribers of compounded bioidentical HT should document the medical indication for compounded HT over government-approved therapies, such as allergy or the need for dosing or a formulation not available in FDA-approved products.


...and a few more links about the practice of "Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy" as opposed to mainstream HRT using the SAME HORMONES!

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/article%20Bio%20identicals%202017.pdf
https://www.menopause.org.au/hp/information-sheets/212-bioidentical-hormones-for-menopausal-symptoms
http://www.menopause.org/publications/clinical-practice-materials/bioidentical-hormone-therapy/compounded-bioidentical-hormones-what%27s-the-harm-
https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm049311.htm
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hormone-replacement-therapy/Pages/Alternatives.aspx#bio-identical

In most cases HRT at the right dose in the right formulation at the right stage of a woman's menopause is often the help it ought to be - according to evidence from trials!! You will see light at the end of the tunnel from using your HRT - but only if you take the right HRT!

Incidentally where are you in menopause - how often are your periods and how long are they? Do you skip them and are they few and far between?

This is meant to be helpful to you Izetta - so that you don't spend a lot of money and time on a treatment that is not suitable and won't do anything. - as other members ( Dana in Aus has experience of this) have done and regretted.

Hurdity x :)


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CLKD

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Re: never in my wildest dreams
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2017, 06:01:50 PM »

Members here are not equipped to tell others to stop what their medic has prescribed. Sharing experiences can help in that people can read and see if what is suggested is appropriate at this particular time.

In recent weeks I have talked to a couple of ladies locally that have not noted much benefit from the HRT prescribed until after 4-5 months; one rang me to say "I've woken this morning feeling better!" ......   I wouldn't have remembered their individual regimes had they told me  ::).  The other felt that the flushes were less but over-all, it took weeks B4 she felt different.  Each lady is, after all, different.

"and not to be tempted to take anti-depressant medication while the HRT is working its magic and the ADs may well dull your symptoms so you won't know what's what. ....... " - HRT doesn't always work 'magic' and why would ADs 'dull symptoms?'   :-\

Izetta - what access to medical advice do you have in your area, are there medics with specific menopausal knowledge close to where you live?  Maybe a Dept. at your local Hospital?  Perhaps make a note what you have been taking, take a list of symptoms and speak to someone, even a Pharmacist might help.  Then let us know ;-)
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Hurdity

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Re: never in my wildest dreams
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 07:05:56 AM »

It's fine CLKD  - there is no problem with commenting on this – the subject has come up many times before – ie private compounded BHRT vs regular “bio-identical hormones” available through mainstream doctors and gynaes ie estradiol and progesterone – you may not have read previous threads? It's perfectly fine for members to comment and draw attention to current protocols and the deficiencies of such a regime in the interests of a member's menopausal and financial health – to explain why it might not be working and even to advise stopping! We're not talking about life-saving medication or anything like that. The links explain it all quite clearly.

Izetta -  if,  after reading these posts and links you decide to think again about your treatment, then as CLKD suggested –  hopefully through your insurance you can find a specialist gynae ( or whoever is appropriate where you live!) who can prescribe a proper dose of estradiol and progesterone at a fraction of the cost and which have been shown to be effective - and hopefully will be for you.  It is your decision – but many other women have been through what you have and the protocols speak for themselves. We are so lucky in UK to have the NHS.

Just to add also that If you are peri-menopausal ( not gone for 12 months without a natural period) then you should be prescribed HRT to give a withdrawal bleed to coincide with your periods – so you would only take progesterone for part of the month. Often at this time hormones are fluctuating wildly and mood swings are common – but gradually as the months go by things do calm down a bit in most women. You may well have already read up a lot about HRT but I am also including another link to an article written by Dr Currie gynaecologist who founded this website called “The Perils of the Perimenopause” which you might find interesting:  https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/magazine/pdf/Article%20-%20Perils%20of%20the%20Perimenopause.pdf

I do hope you find these suggestions and links helpful! :)

Hurdity x


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Izetta

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Re: never in my wildest dreams
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 07:13:47 AM »

Thank you ladies Hurdity/CLKD for the very in depth and lengthy responses and articles and viewpoints and takes on this all.

I know that what we have available here is valid, and probably my best option. Now as for the dose you may be right Hurdity. It should be higher,much higher.

It was hard enough to convince them that i needed estrogen and progesterone.
im 6 months with no period, so that is where i am at. 53 yrs.

I will also say that the vms are minimal for me...hot sensitive skin and sleep issues are aside from what im really suffering and that is depression, low mood, anxiety.
ive read the NAMS position- wow talk about a long article..and unfortunately it speaks so little of the cognitive aspect of perimenopause/menopause
So much so that im almost convinced that the depression i have will never lift, its just how i am now. It may not even have to do with hormones. Like Dr. Studd says, its the reproductive depression...
it doesnt make sense that im one day ok and the next day in the deepest darkest place. How is that possible? The back and forth is really perplexing.
Reproductie depression is the only parallel that i can feasibly make.  I have to say that the medical technology is quite advanced here, but not exactly where im located. Im out in the Pacific!
I also am not against whatsoever taking AD if it will help me. No one is able to make that call as every head is a world unto itself.
I prefer Not to take them but if they allow me to go on, and function and take care of my boys then so be it. Then there is ofcourse St. Johns Wort, and ive heard good results with this herb.
I plan on talking to the other doc in the clinic and get some fancy tests that we will send out- i will report back.
Thank you very informed ladies...thank you.


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