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[Love_vodka]

 Hi
I'm 44 and had a hysterectomy 5 years ago, kept my ovaries. Recently had bloods done (2 lots) and have been prescribed Everol 50 patches.
I'm on my 3rd week and not noticing any improvements and not sure if that's because I'm expecting too much? Haven't given them long enough? Or am on the wrong dose?
My symptoms are tiredness, but not at night!! Extreme night sweats,hot flushes, a bit tearful/over emotional and zero motivation.
Am I going to feel like this forever?    or is the Everol just not working for me yet?
At the moment I would gladly lay in front of the tv all day doing nothing which is so completely out of character.
Any ideas,words of wisdom or advice much appreciated xxx

[CLKD]

It won't last for ever.  Hormone levels don't suddenly drop so it can take a while for any HRT to kick in.  I don't take HRT - if you use the 'search' button for 'Every 50' you should see related threads.

Browse round.  Make notes!  Nowt wrong with laying in front of the TV - it is Winter after all!  Treats are important when we feel low.

 

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome to MM Love_vodka
You may have been really low on oestrogen when you started these patches so it could take a few more weeks for the oestrogen levels to build and do their magic.  Sometimes the patches don't absorb that well either so in 4-6 weeks I'd ask for a blood test to see what your oestrogen levels are and then the doctors can advice from there - possibly move to a higher dose. You need the oestrogen to protect your heart and bones for the long term and, in fact, as you have had a hyster you may be able to use oestrogen for the rest of your life unless other health issues prevent this.
Do have a good look at your diet as well - it's mid winter and most people are low on Vitamin D so it's worth getting a supplement with Vitamin D and magnesium to give yourself a boost. Vitamin D deficiency will result in low mood and low energy!!! I find Omega 3 and B12 essential as well.
It's early days - give things a bit more time - I bet in a couple of weeks you will start of feel better.  DG x

[Murphydurf]

Have any of your symptoms abated or are they all still the same as when you started? If they're all still the same, you're not getting enough as most women on transdermal will see some sort of results within 2 weeks, some earlier. Even if you're E is very low, you should have some mild relief by now. Have a chat with your doc next week but every women's needs are different and whilst some ladies get good control with 50 patches, some need double that for the same control. What were your blood test results?

Mxx

[Love_vodka]

My symptoms are far worse since starting the patches Murphydurf.
Keep working up on a morning and bursting into tears for no reason at all.
My fsh level was 109 and LH was 57.5?
I can stay on estrogen patches till I'm 50 as I have a blood disorder which means I'm high risk of DVT.
Dancinggirl I'm taking vitamin d,calcium,magnesium,b complex,omega 3,6,9 ,zinc for the past 3 months and eat healthily, good wait and active.
I feel like I'm loosing the plot and don't feel like myself anymore 
Should I peservere with the patches? Or is the fact I'm getting no relief at all mean the dose is too low?

[Dancinggirl]

Keep going - Love_vodka - you need this oestrogen at your age and I suspect your body is just reacting at the shock of getting the oestrogen in quite a big hit.  Your hormones levels were very low and may have been low for some time - your body is screaming for this oestrogen and it's going to take time to adjust and welcome this great stuff. When I went back on HRT after a one year break, my gynae told me to do a lower dose for the first 2 weeks and then build - sometimes we need to start low. My level after 4weeks was 475.  However 50mg is only an average dose so not to much for you and you should start to feel better in the next couple of weeks and possibly increase dose if your levels haven't stabilised.   Increasing too much too soon may not be a good idea. I would get a blood test done in 2 weeks - by then your oestrogen level should be between 300 - 500 and this would indicate you are absorbing the oestrogen - if it isn't a reasonable level, then you may need to use Oestrogel or perhaps have pills alongside the patch. DG x

[Love_vodka]

Thanks Dancinggirl. I just don't get how I'm feeling worse instead of better. Will try ring dr for a chat next week, do I ask if she can test my Oestrogen?
Because of risk of hrt I can only really use patches I think?
I just feel like my hormones are absolutely raging,especially night and when I wake up. I've nothing to be sad about but just crying and crying for nothing! I was just hoping to feel better not worse.
Thank you again xxx

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Love_vodka - The impact of HRT will effect us all differently.  I do think there can be an initial hit of oestrogen that the body simply can't handle at first but this should settle in the first 4 weeks or so.  I did find that patches gave me an initial big hit of oestrogen for the first 24 hours, making me sweat and feel dizzy, and then it trailed off over the next couple of days and this tended to happen with each new patch - so for me it was a bit of a roller coaster.  You could be better with Oestrogel which is applied once a day so gives a more constant dose. 
Can I suggest that once you have done 4 weeks on these patches, do pop  back to the doctor and ask for a blood test to see what's going on - a blood test for oestrogen will indicate whether it's absorbing or not.  Maybe ask to switch to the Oestrogel - Oestrogel will give you more control over dosage as well, as you can start with just one pump per day and gradually increase over several weeks ( up to 4 pumps per day) until you find the balance you need.
The emotional side effects will also reduce as the oestrogen does it's magic. The emotion, flushes etc are just your body crying out for oestrogen.

BTW - I do hope your forum name doesn't indicate that you drink a lot of vodka?? It's great to have the odd alcoholic drink but too much won't be good if DVT is a possible risk. Vodka is also not good for mood or flushes.
Keep us posted.  DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi again Love_vodka - we spoke on your introductory thread (and I made a similar comment about vodka  !!!).

Just to add that  if you want to continue with patches you might find Estradot better - they are very small and stick well - I would always recommend them over Evorel ( which I had for 3 months when first starting hRT - but didn't get on with the progestogen in them) as Evorel are MAHOOSIVE!!!

My oestrogen levels are around 200-250 (probably - haven't had them done recently) on the 50 mcg patch which is a medium dose - but has always been sufficient to eliminate all flushes and sweats. However the dose required to eliminate flushes and sweats is not related to the actual oestrogen level in the blood - this seems to be a very complex phenomenon! ie some women like myself can be fine on a medium dose like 50 mcg - while others need a higher dose or blood level of oestrogen to achieve the same effect.

Hurdity x

[Murphydurf]

You know what vodka - if you drink a lot of vodka, it's really no-one's concern but yours! Time and again posters on this site advocate gel - one poster in particular, or estradot - another poster in particular. Sometimes I wonder if they're sales reps for these products! I'm tired of them banging on about the same protocols which, for them, might be perfect, but for others are not. One of them even told me that my recent low E level blood test couldn't be trusted! It's your body, your side effects and up to YOU whether you self medicate with vodka, oestrogen or any other substance that helps you make it through the night, or day for that matter. Don't be swayed, trust your instincts.

Mx

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Love_Vodka - I do hope you took my comment about vodka as a positive - I suspect your forum name is simply ironic?
Anyway, I know that Hurdity and I are trying to offer some positive and helpful support.  I personally suffered with early ovarian failure ( peri meno started in my mid 30s), I have therefore had nearly 25 years experience of meno symptoms and treatment and tried all sorts of HRT options.  I would still not deem myself, in any way, an expert but offer advice and support based on my own experiences.
The Oestrogel I recommended is a transdermal form of oestrogen so would be safe for you as an alternative to Evorel patches.  Oestrogel is one of the preferred ways of delivering Oestrogel and many women find it excellent.  I know that Hurdity uses Estradot patches  (Hurdity has a science background so has done a great deal of research into HRT) - the Estradot patches are known to stick better and might therefore allow better absorption of oestrogen, so could be a another good option for you.  Sadly all HRT is trial and error - we are here to share our experiences.
You do have options and our mission on this forum is to give support to each other.
Do keep us posted - I really hope things improve for you.  DG x

[Murphydurf]

You have options.

Mxx

[Tempest]

Time and time again, I see women having problems who have to take estrogen only HRT. Myself included, and also AbbyH and Annie0710. There is no coincidence in this, I feel. Estrogen only sent me BONKERS. Annie has had anxiety constantly whilst using estrogen only HRT, and AbbyH can't get her patch dose above 25mcg without going crazy on it either. I also recall Cubagirl, one of our dearest long term members, saying that she couldn't tolerate a 50mcg patch.

Evidently SOMETHING is missing that we can't tolerate the dose of estrogen that we need - and if one pops over to Hystersisters, you will find hundreds of post hysterectomy only or hysterectomy/oopherectomy ladies who are having exactly the same experiences. Ditto the Surmeno forum. Not all - but an extremely large proportion. Those that are ok on ERT seem to stick to low doses.

My theory - and this is just MY theory (but also backed up by research over at the Surmeno information website) is that Estradiol is too stimulating without the balancing effects of a progestogen (yes, I know how many of you hate the prog. phase of HRT) but seriously - the common phrase used by women who try to take 'decent' levels of Estradiol only and for whom it turns into a nightmare is 'feeling like the energiser bunny on acid, and not in a good way', and that's exactly IT.

For the love of God, in these women I just don't know why they aren't allowed to trial the addition of a progestogen or are offered Tibolone if post menopausal. There is enough evidence that THIS HAPPENS, some of us feel rotten and really struggle! It's only here in the UK that we're forced to make a 'square peg fit a round hole' with our HRT and then made to feel like lepers if we're not feeling good on a 'decent level' of estrogen only, because 'we don't need progesterone because we've had a hysterectomy'. Well, in all my reproductive life I NEVER walked around with just estrogen in my body. It's a lop sided and for some women, cruel approach because it makes us feel DREADFUL.

Sorry, but this is just my two pence worth. It's not wonderful, it's not 'rejuvenating' or 'energising' when it turns into a nightmare of horrible hormonal imbalance. Think about it! It does NOT mimic a woman's natural cycle. At all. And therefore it is highly alien and uncomfortable to a great many of us. I really wish the medical establishment in this country would wrap their heads around  this and start seeing us as individuals, and treating accordingly.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I'm just seeing too many women being let down and feeling inadequate because they don't fit their HRT, whereas it should be the other way around.

[Menomale]

Well said -clap, clap, clap-

[Murphydurf]

Stellajane - I entirely understand that the same info has to be repeated but new members can also access the old info by searching. The same BRANDS don't have to be mentioned over and over. That's only part of my point - once again, these people are NOT medics and as such, are NOT qualified to prescribe to others.

Tempest - great post, I always feel better with very small amounts if prog, it's just getting the balance, as always!

Mxx