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[flutterby]

I know there are a ladies that by choice, circumstances or not able to conceive don't have children like me. Have you ever been made to feel an oddity or even second class?
I ask this as a few days ago a close friend who has a 3 month old grandson was talking about her cousin visiting and said how clueless she was when holding the baby and said that even I was better. I was a bit upset by this but I let it go, but when I saw here again tonight she said virtual the same thing. I remember being really mortified at work when the baby of one of my colleagues started to cry when I had hold of him and someone took him and said "they can tell a mother".
I love cuddling babies and children and I did have to handle prem and poorly babies as part of a job so I'm not nervous with little ones.
I know I should let these comments go but quite a few comments over the years stick in my mind

[nearly50]

God yes, countless horrible remarks have been made to me over the years. 'you wouldn't understand,  you're not a mum', 'your time will come' in a loud stage whisper when a colleague announced they were pregnant and only last week I was told in a vey patronising tone that I was only slim because I hadn't had children. Mostly from colleagues though, not anyone I would call a friend. Would be annoyed at that.

[Dana]

People can be very rude sometimes. I often get patronising comments. I look a lot younger than my 57 years and people always put this down to "you've never had children". Well if children age you that much thank god I never had any. I look good for my age because (a) I look after myself, (b) I eat right and exercise, and (c) I have good genes. I doubt children have anything to do with it and it's just an excuse women use to be lazy. It wouldn't matter if they did or didn't have children. Maybe I should start telling these "aging" mothers that they look old for their age because they're fat and lazy..... but that would be rude wouldn't it!! Funny how others can make rude comments, but if you say anything in response they get upset. On the other hand, we are supposed to just suck it up and laugh at their “jokes”.

I am child-free by choice. I've never had any maternal longings at all, so I don't view my status as being sad. However, when someone asks me if I have any children and I say no, there is always that "pregnant" pause (sorry for the pun) where I'm sure they're thinking “oh poor barren thing”. Usually I say I'm happily child free to avoid any awkwardness.

I have to say I do get a bit bored with "baby" talk when I'm with some friends. A lot of them have children and/or grandchildren so there is always the inevitable talk about children, and find it really tedious. Some women just don't seem to be able to talk about anything else. One on one they're fine, but in a group they're boring.

[dulciana]

Dana, I would agree with you on your reasons for looking good at 57.  I'm the same age and we have a daughter, but I often get taken for younger than that, too, and am reasonably slim.  I don't think having children should be an excuse for letting yourself go.   

My mother was baby-daft and used to say to us that she was so sad when we all stopped being babies.  (Yes, honestly!)  This put me off baby-talk permanently and I still feel uncomfortable when someone else's baby is passed round for cuddles.  In fact, when Hubby and I were newly married, a young mum on a train palmed her baby off on to me while she went to the loo - I didn't have a clue how to hold him and by the time she came back, the little darling was howling the place down and waving his arms and legs about all over the place!  Cringe......

[Katejo]

I know there are a ladies that by choice, circumstances or not able to conceive don't have children like me. Have you ever been made to feel an oddity or even second class?
I ask this as a few days ago a close friend who has a 3 month old grandson was talking about her cousin visiting and said how clueless she was when holding the baby and said that even I was better. I was a bit upset by this but I let it go, but when I saw here again tonight she said virtual the same thing. I remember being really mortified at work when the baby of one of my colleagues started to cry when I had hold of him and someone took him and said "they can tell a mother".
I love cuddling babies and children and I did have to handle prem and poorly babies as part of a job so I'm not nervous with little ones.
I know I should let these comments go but quite a few comments over the years stick in my mind

Not in a really obvious way but my younger brother has never trusted me to take his 2 small boys out. At least that is what I suspect. When they were toddlers, i did suggest it but they never took me up on it so i gave up. I did want to have kids but didn't meet the right man at the right time. now they are a bit older (5 & 7), i wouldn't want to take them out together because the older one can be quite difficult but I'd be happy to take the younger one out.

[annieb]

This takes me back to when I was young and trying to get a job - engaged to be married and wearing an engagement ring of course. I was very well qualified and it should have been easy but I would get along very well at interviews and even get to second level when it would reach a point that the interviewer (mostly men due to the industry I was in) would see the engagement ring. A total change - even saw the moment at one or two interviews and then would come the questions about babies and that would be it. No amount of my saying that I had no intention of having children in the near future helped.  Several friends has the same issue and one would remove her ring to go to interviews.  I was very stubborn and refused to do that. These days interviewers are not allowed to ask such questions!
I did eventually have a family but am still not the cooing over babies sort and pretty useless when it comes to holding babies (long time since I had mine and not sure I was that good at it then). Yet I have a niece who has no children and no experience with younger siblings  - she can pick up a baby , calm and sooth it with such ease.  It's just how we are made
Such a shame that anyone who does not have children for whatever reason should be made to feel odd or weird.
Mind you even when you do have a baby you get the next set of questions - when are you having another one?  Is that it then? Wouldn't he like a little brother or sister? 
I try to avoid asking people (both men and women) if they have children - there are so many other things you can talk about

[Night_Owl]

I know there are a ladies that by choice, circumstances or not able to conceive don't have children like me. Have you ever been made to feel an oddity or even second class?

I know I should let these comments go but quite a few comments over the years stick in my mind

Oh yes, definitely made to feel like a second rate woman by the matriachs of society. 

I've always worked in an office environment and usually the first question women ask is do you have children - it's such a  personal question - and if you don't then immediately you are made to feel that there is no common ground. 

I find a lot of women - and men - are totally defined by their children and grandchildren and live their life through them and have an unhealthy over-dependency.

I clearly recall my elder sister telling me that "I hadn't been born yet" because I didn't have children - yet she was the stay at home mother, living a very narrow life in a small village!

The attitude exasperates me.

[Katejo]

This takes me back to when I was young and trying to get a job - engaged to be married and wearing an engagement ring of course. I was very well qualified and it should have been easy but I would get along very well at interviews and even get to second level when it would reach a point that the interviewer (mostly men due to the industry I was in) would see the engagement ring. A total change - even saw the moment at one or two interviews and then would come the questions about babies and that would be it. No amount of my saying that I had no intention of having children in the near future helped.  Several friends has the same issue and one would remove her ring to go to interviews.  I was very stubborn and refused to do that. These days interviewers are not allowed to ask such questions!
I did eventually have a family but am still not the cooing over babies sort and pretty useless when it comes to holding babies (long time since I had mine and not sure I was that good at it then). Yet I have a niece who has no children and no experience with younger siblings  - she can pick up a baby , calm and sooth it with such ease.  It's just how we are made
Such a shame that anyone who does not have children for whatever reason should be made to feel odd or weird.
Mind you even when you do have a baby you get the next set of questions - when are you having another one?  Is that it then? Wouldn't he like a little brother or sister? 
I try to avoid asking people (both men and women) if they have children - there are so many other things you can talk about

  On a BBC programme, only about 5 years ago, i heard a woman manager in her 50's saying that she never employed female staff under 45 precisely because they might want maternity leave! I hoped that someone would hear her and take legal action against her.

[Ju Ju]

My sister experienced many negative comments when she was unable to conceive for many years. Obviously she was very sensitive at a difficult time, but why are people so judgemental over something that is very personal? I have one friend who couldn't have children. She moved 100s of miles from her family to get away from insensitive and judgemental comments from them! Why judge people for their decisions or circumstances? Why do people question my daughters decision not to have more than one child?

I wanted children and was fortunate to have them, but I paid a huge price career wise. I don't regret that, but trying to combine a career with childcare was beyond me physically. I have friends who either couldn't or didn't want children, but enjoyed developing their careers and are definitely financially better off. They do not look younger than me though!

I do not witter away about my children and grandchildren to people who have no interest, anymore than I would tolerate someone wittering away about football etc.,  though my childless friends are interested in my children, because they are human beings doing interesting things!

[Cazikins]

I never had children which was my choice - just met the wrong man at the wrong time in my life I suppose, plus we were too busy having holidays, going skiing touring the States etc.

One friend goes on & on about how wonderful her children have turned out, it verges on bragging & I sometimes feel she is trying to rub my face into it. I just switch off.

My older brother calls me "the barren Aunt" in front of his girls, 


Cazi x

[Katejo]

My mother used to display an odd attitude towards childless neighbours when we were kids, saying things like "they don't know they're born" - fortunately none of it rubbed off on me, even as a 10 year old I thought it was a ridiculous way to think. That was back in the 60s though - you would have hoped people were a bit more enlightened these days.

My Great uncle and aunt had a grandson who was adopted as well as a natural grandson. My Grandma occasionally made comments to us about him not really being  a true member of the family or something similar. i forget her exact wording but remember being shocked by it.

[dulciana]

Dictionary definition of adopt - "legally take (another's child) and bring it up as one's own".   

[babyjane]

It is no one's business but yours 

Our daughter and her husband are childless, not by choice but because there is a genetic disease in the family that they feel it would be irresponsible to pass on to the next generation so have made the informed choice not to have children.  No one but close family know this and DD still gets the 'not pregnant yet?' comments, as if it is anyone's business.

None of us know what is happening in peoples families and I think most of us here would be too polite to comment to others.  what a shame others can't show the same courtesy. 

I feel quite cross on behalf of the ladies who have posted here 

[getting_old]

I don't have children and if I'm honest I don't like children very much, especially young ones as I don't find them very interesting, but if I had got pregnant I'm sure OH would have been a wonderful dad 
Some friends and colleagues had children but they were horribly competitve about every life stage so I was actually quite pleased that I wasn't part of that. I showed a polite interest but didn't get too involved, and often changed the subject to things which were more general, and if someone brought their baby in I would escape before I had to hold it.

[nearly50]

if someone brought their baby in I would escape before I had to hold it.

never understood the 'let's pass the baby round' routine at work. Although one time I thought it was a baby and it ended up being a puppy and that was very exciting, lol.

Babies are fantastic if you're related to them, if not then they're incredibly boring.

My sister always told me I should tell anyone who asked why I didn't have children that I was barren to shut them up, but I never did have the nerve. Really felt for a friend who was desperate for a child but it never happened for them, people have no idea how insensitive they were to her.