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[kiltgirl]

I can't advise you because I'm not finished ruining my own kids I can relate though. Last week I had it out with one and we were both in tears. When he started telling me it wasn't my fault and I'm a great mother, it was the most terriffing thing I've ever heard. In that moment I remembered my own mother, who was awful, crying all the time and making us feel as though her being crazy was our fault. I do not want to play the martyr like she did. So I did have a heart to heart with him, not blaming hormones but explaining that I feel overwhelmed and I want the best for my kids and stress is getting to me, and that meanwhile, the kids can help by following the rules, obeying without argument, and generally behaving like they should be behaving anyway.

 I think the motherhood guilt is common among all mothers. It helps to step back and think about what's reasonable or unreasonable about whatever is making you snap at your daughter. I snap at mine for crawling all over me when I'm trying to relax. My reaction probably is unreasonable when I finally react, but it isn't unreasonable to want some time to relax on the sofa without her crawling on me. I'm now sending my kids to their bedrooms for about an hour every afternoon, just because "I said so". It gives me a chance to chill and them as well. I didn't like to do this at first because it seemed like I was punishing them for nothing and I felt guilty but it's been healthy for all of us.

Kids are hard.

Lizab, good advice, and so true...this is a big part of what I worry about...our kids want us to be happy and try to please us, is a big responsibility. Sometimes when I'm spinning out and feeling low I can't tell if I'm doing the right thing or being unreasonable.
I like the idea of telling her how I feel...overwhelmed is a good word to use (I used to have so many good words, seem to have lost half of them lately haha)
I think tomorrow after her sleepover friend has gone I will sit down with her and talk. I swear I asked to to tidy her room a dozen times today and finally ended up shouting at her...unlike her dad I don't have wads of cash to throw at her as incentive. I know she would love spending quality time with me more than any money though...thing is I have to behave myself if I can and not be so moody 

[kiltgirl]

You have to look after you before you can look after others. Just like the safety messages on aeroplanes, put your own oxygen mask on before putting on masks on others. In other words, you are no good to anyone, if you don't look after yourself. It's not being selfish; its survival! What 'me' time do you fit in for yourself? What enjoyable activities do you do for just for for you?

You're right, and I don't really do anything in my free time but enjoy being on my own. I think I need to feel stronger, so really it all points to getting some exercise, I spend all my time ruminating which is kinda paralysing!
You ladies are great therapy!! 

[Ju Ju]

When my son was in his teens and very stroppy, (Big argument... he thought I was very unreasonable that I needed to be informed if he was going to be late etc), I told him there was nothing he could do that would stop me loving him. However, if he behaved badly there would be consequences. For example, if he killed someone, I would inform the police, but would be there throughout the process, visit him in prison and be there for him when he came out of prison. Very dramatic, but then I was dealing with a dramatic teenager. I explained unconditional love means loving the person, but does not mean colluding with bad behaviour. I also told him that it was my job as his Mum to worry about him  because I loved him and that keeping me in the loop and being considerate as in all his relationships was important. I pointed out that when his Dad asked me if I minded him going out with his friends, he wasn't really asking my permission. He didn't need that, but it was a nice way of letting me know where he was so I wouldn't worry.

This conversation was a turning point for us and our relationship ever since, which is why I remember it. I feel I did some good parenting that day, but believe me, I didn't all the time. Sometimes you really have to spell it out clearly. He was more considerate and thoughtful, because he understood why it was necessary. He is now married happily and a father, with another on the way. My DIL has told what a wonderful man he is. I like to feel I had a hand in that! 

Before I retired, I was a teacher. I found it helpful in my mind to separate the child from their behaviour, particularly when their behaviour was challenging. This stopped me from reacting as if it was a personal attack. I was able to see bad behaviour as a symptom of something else, which helped me stay calm and non judgemental. It is easier when they are not your own children and you are not so emotionally involved of course. I've used this when dealing with unpleasant behaviour from adults. It helps not to take things personally. People often react to past pain rather than to the present, which explains why people read things into something where it was never intended.

Anyway, I'm hoping some if this ramble might help in some way.

[babyjane]

Kiltgirl I want to crawl down the cable and give you a real life hug for this

I know I put too much pressure on myself to do a better job than my own mother, I was actually relieved when she passed away (sorry if anyone finds that offensive I'm just being honest,

I was doing really well after some counselling to get past this but I think the hormonal craziness has weakened my rationale, but recognising this I guess is the first step in overcoming it...

woo sorry that was a bit deep 

but a cyber one will have to do 

I have had a year's psychotherapy and treatment for an anxiety disorder for the way my mother raised me.  She, and my father, were not 'good enough'.  I know that now and am now working on reconciling myself to the fact.  It is not happening overnight but is a process that is changing the way I look at myself and relate to other people.

I get scared sometimes that I have not been 'good enough' as a result, but our children are lovely, well adjusted adults with good jobs, homes and families so I really hope their father's influence diluted some of my own inadequacies.

[CLKD]

My Mother too is narcasstic personality disorder as is my sister, the 'golden girl' …….. the latter I have little contact with but I do see Mum who is busy with her 'own' Life most of the while ;-).

Thanks Ju Ju - I believe in laying it down when necessary!

[kiltgirl]

When my son was in his teens and very stroppy, (Big argument... he thought I was very unreasonable that I needed to be informed if he was going to be late etc), I told him there was nothing he could do that would stop me loving him. However, if he behaved badly there would be consequences. For example, if he killed someone, I would inform the police, but would be there throughout the process, visit him in prison and be there for him when he came out of prison. Very dramatic, but then I was dealing with a dramatic teenager. I explained unconditional love means loving the person, but does not mean colluding with bad behaviour. I also told him that it was my job as his Mum to worry about him  because I loved him and that keeping me in the loop and being considerate as in all his relationships was important. I pointed out that when his Dad asked me if I minded him going out with his friends, he wasn't really asking my permission. He didn't need that, but it was a nice way of letting me know where he was so I wouldn't worry.

This conversation was a turning point for us and our relationship ever since, which is why I remember it. I feel I did some good parenting that day, but believe me, I didn't all the time. Sometimes you really have to spell it out clearly. He was more considerate and thoughtful, because he understood why it was necessary. He is now married happily and a father, with another on the way. My DIL has told what a wonderful man he is. I like to feel I had a hand in that! 

Before I retired, I was a teacher. I found it helpful in my mind to separate the child from their behaviour, particularly when their behaviour was challenging. This stopped me from reacting as if it was a personal attack. I was able to see bad behaviour as a symptom of something else, which helped me stay calm and non judgemental. It is easier when they are not your own children and you are not so emotionally involved of course. I've used this when dealing with unpleasant behaviour from adults. It helps not to take things personally. People often react to past pain rather than to the present, which explains why people read things into something where it was never intended.

Anyway, I'm hoping some if this ramble might help in some way.

Hi Ju Ju, I think it's good to have a respectful talk with your kids too, no matter what their age...I know it works with my girl...of course she likes to be talked to in a mature way.

Lately I've had quite a lot of practice of being verbally abused, at work, used to be that we worked with adults with learning disabilities, nowadays we have more personality disorders, mental health and substance abuse issues...being told to 'f off' and other lovely things because you've called someone to give support and interrupted their morning in doing so is always a lovely way to start the week...I see some colleagues let this into their hearts and they eventually go off sick from the stress...I'm trying to see it as a challenge, plenty of opportunities to perfect my responses!

You're so right about reacting to past pain...it shapes perception I guess? I know I grew into an adult assuming that others would always see me in a negative light, lifelong anxiety and depression...
What a waste of time, makes me quite angry...at least it's never too late to make changes...if I can send my child out into the world a happy confident person then I think I will be very proud!

[kiltgirl]

Kiltgirl I want to crawl down the cable and give you a real life hug for this

I know I put too much pressure on myself to do a better job than my own mother, I was actually relieved when she passed away (sorry if anyone finds that offensive I'm just being honest,

I was doing really well after some counselling to get past this but I think the hormonal craziness has weakened my rationale, but recognising this I guess is the first step in overcoming it...

woo sorry that was a bit deep 

but a cyber one will have to do 

I have had a year's psychotherapy and treatment for an anxiety disorder for the way my mother raised me.  She, and my father, were not 'good enough'.  I know that now and am now working on reconciling myself to the fact.  It is not happening overnight but is a process that is changing the way I look at myself and relate to other people.

I get scared sometimes that I have not been 'good enough' as a result, but our children are lovely, well adjusted adults with good jobs, homes and families so I really hope their father's influence diluted some of my own inadequacies.

Oh thank you! and have a hug back 

It's quite something to have someone validate your feelings about your parents isn't it. I don't know about you but I always felt so guilty about the way I felt about my own mum...it kind of compounded my belief that I wasn't a nice person...my counsellor said 'some people just shouldn't be parents' when I described some of my childhood...I was so amazed, it wasn't because of me...so liberating!

Maybe the fact that we actually care enough to worry if we are good enough or not puts us streets ahead of our own parents...

I hope you continue to heal from your experience too...it's a bumpy road! Hard to let go of the guilt that makes you feel as though you're betraying the people who 'sacrificed' for you or brought you into the world...I'm waffling now...

I'm pretty sure I only started dealing with this stuff as I entered peri...definitely 'the change'...I read somewhere that part of the reason menopausal women are so ratty is because they are much less inclined to put up with cr@p they have lived with up until this point, divorcing friends who make them feel bad or finally dealing with things etc...

x

[kiltgirl]

My Mother too is narcasstic personality disorder as is my sister, the 'golden girl' …….. the latter I have little contact with but I do see Mum who is busy with her 'own' Life most of the while ;-).

Thanks Ju Ju - I believe in laying it down when necessary!

Oh my gosh, 2 in the same family, you poor thing! At least as we get older we can choose who we have in our lives...x

[babyjane]

No, you're not waffling.  My grandmother was a narcissist but these things weren't diagnosed back then. She lived with us all through my childhood.  My father was inadequate, in thrall to his mother, and my own mother was always stressed, angry, unkind and ill because of the pressure she was under. A small child was the last thing she wanted or needed as she was already looking after my father and his mother.  I was not mothered and I was sent away a lot to stay with relatives.  I did not bond with my mother and grew up thinking it was my responsibility to keep my mother happy, to make things nice for her.

I have learned so much this year kiltgirl.  I almost like myself now (not quite there but definitely getting there).  I have been honest with my own children and they have been supportive.  I am determined my 60s are going to be positive, make up for my 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s, teens, my whole life so far.  I just really hope I get a good innings in middle age to make up for some of the crap..

Whew, that needed saying. thank you for raising this issue x

[Ju Ju]

I am in my 60s and despite health challenges, I can say, hand on heart, that I have never been happier. My circumstances haven't changed, but with help, I have taken on board that there is nothing wrong with me! I actually like myself now! I am worthy of being loved and I let that in and therefore I can love. I realise that happiness comes from within and not from outside. I used to feel guilty for not liking my Mum, but now I accept that she is as she is. Yes, she irritates me, but I don't have expectations and that's OK. She had her own challenges as a child and while that doesn't excuse things, it helps me to understand and know it was never about me. If by caring about her means that I love her, then I love her. So you youngsters, there is hope for you yet! As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!

[kiltgirl]

Sounds like a lonely childhood, an awful thing it is to grow up feeling like you get in the way or make things worse 

I was talking with a colleague who is almost 60, she had a pretty terrible time as a child too, she said she only began to scratch the surface in her 50s.

The 'martyred mum', I do think it must have been harder for mums back then, their place was firmly in the home and mental health issues weren't really addressed as much...and kids had no voice at all...how different from today!

It's been good to share this, I hope your 60s are your time to shine, it will be well-deserved and a good payoff for the pains of middle age, be lovely to think that getting the hormones sorted, feeling physically well and freeing oneself of our demons could all happen at the same time...be a great reward! x

[kiltgirl]

I am in my 60s and despite health challenges, I can say, hand on heart, that I have never been happier. My circumstances haven't changed, but with help, I have taken on board that there is nothing wrong with me! I actually like myself now! I am worthy of being loved and I let that in and therefore I can love. I realise that happiness comes from within and not from outside. I used to feel guilty for not liking my Mum, but now I accept that she is as she is. Yes, she irritates me, but I don't have expectations and that's OK. She had her own challenges as a child and while that doesn't excuse things, it helps me to understand and know it was never about me. If by caring about her means that I love her, then I love her. So you youngsters, there is hope for you yet! As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!

What a lovely post, made my eyes tear up.

I love that there is still some good to look forward to, it really does give me hope...I've been single most of my life, find relationships very difficult, would be lovely to think I could mellow out enough to have someone lovely in my life and make it last longer than a couple of weeks!

That guilt is awful isn't it, really unsettling...so good to shake it off and be able to breathe again.


I'm so thankful for this forum, I didn't expect my original post to have brought such responses...it's been like a really good therapy session, bouncing thoughts and ideas and experiences back and forward. And it's so good to know you're not alone.

[babyjane]

As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!

Ju Ju thank you for this  .  That is the best Christmas present I could be given.  I will write it on my heart.  that's it in a nutshell.

[kiltgirl]

As one very wise man said to me, what's there not to love about you!

Ju Ju thank you for this  .  That is the best Christmas present I could be given.  I will write it on my heart.  that's it in a nutshell.

 

[CLKD]

Narsacissitic personality behaviour disorder wasn't diagnosed until the late 1980s.  It is difficult to diagnose unless the person is observed on a continual basis. 

However: I was raised to let my parents know who I was with and where we were going - no mobile phones and there wasn't land-line!  Buses were regular ; like 3 every day to town and 3 back, the last one at night left 10 mins. B4 the end of the main film.  Who dreamt that one up! so we had to go into the cinema to watch the end first 

We had to communicate otherwise we never went anywhere  .  Only 1 car per family, so we cycled everywhere.