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[mumofthree]

This is very difficult to write but I'm so desperate for advice and/or to hear someone else may be suffering the same.

I had a hysterectomy at 32, keeping my ovaries. I'm now 43.

I've previously posted about other peri symptoms, severe breast pain, night sweats, anxiety, low mood. But this is my worst problem by far! It started 3 years ago, infact I think I might have asked about this a few years ago but can't remember and keep thinking it's gone for ages then it comes back. Work stress threw me into early peri 3 years ago, I started getting panic attacks, hot flushes day and night then one day had a massive wave of fear come over me and thought I would turn into a bad person. I lost half a stone in a few days. I still dont know if that was a panic attack, breakdown or my first hot flush. My FSH was raised to mid 20's, but has now come down to 3 (a year ago). I tried HRT and AD's but my head was so 'in the bin' I was so scared of using them I stopped both times after a few weeks. I did research into how the body works and spent 3 months on the sofa so safe to say it was probably a breakdown. I was counselling very traumatised adults (substance misuse) at the time with histories of abuse.

I went to work in a supermarket which was great for a few years until I got a bit bored and I now work back in IT, nothing very stressful.

I have 3 teenagers and a lovely husband. I am so up and down with my emotions. I wake up soaking in the night and every morning I wake with anxiety, feeling unsettled. I have found the best thing to stop the anxiety is Co-codamol which I have for back pain but I have stopped this as it's not healthy at all. I have suffered from extremely painful breasts for weeks but they stopped a few days ago but that's when the dark thoughts started again. It seems to go away for weeks or even months then all of a sudden it's back. Sometimes I have a very disturbing dream then I cant shake it off all day and it makes me anxious and feeling sick. Or sometimes I have a bad thought about something awful happening to one of the kids or to someone else. I don't want these thoughts. If it was just a worry then it would be fine but it's more like a 'what if' then I picture the scenario, then I feel terrible and ashamed for thinking it, then I spend all day worrying about the fact that I thought about the 'what if' scenario and it's a bloody nightmare!!!! I feel like my life has changed since that stupid job, sometimes I feel better then other times I worry that I'll never be right ever again.

I have been tracking my Basal body temp for past week and it's mostly low at 36.2 no idea what that means?
Last time I admitted this stuff to the GP she said I should see a psychologist but I'd have to go private as I know too many staff/clients to go through the normal route and it's very expensive.
I also wondered whether it's OCD thoughts, which I've read about.
There's so many/too many options to know what to do; Anti depressants, HRT, Psychotherapy, Psychiatry (recommended by gynae!), homeopathy, CBT, Mindfulness etc etc. Not sure if I can take HRT due to lumpectomy last year to remove pre-cancerous cells.

I feel it MUST be hormonal. My boobs hurt for weeks, they stop hurting, then I get this. Yesterday it started again but throughout the day I had times when I felt normal then times when I was close to tears walking the dog, then I'd be normal again.

I would give all the money in the world including my right arm to never have these intrusive thoughts. My husband says it's normal and that everyone has mad crazy thoughts but it's the fact I'm dwelling on them that's the problem and that they're always of a certain nature.

I'm so sorry for such a long post and understand most people probably wont get as far as this bit, but please if any of you have experienced this please let me know as I feel very alone and like a freak, looking normal on the outside while in my head it's torture.

Thank you in advance, hopefully tomorrow will be a good day

[MIS71MUM]

Don't have much time to reply at the moment, but you are not alone!  I too, had these horrible intrusive thoughts last year when I stopped taking HRT.  So I agree it has a hormonal nature.  I also thought that I had OCD too.

Just wanted to say this, we all have crazy and irrational thoughts, it doesn't mean anything about you or what type of person you are.  The thoughts are a by-product of the hormonal upheavels you are going through.  Try not to chase the thoughts though, as that will make your mood lower, easier said than done.

Hopefully someone else will be along to comment too.

Be kind to yourself xxx

[Maryjane]

So sorry for you , and I no far more elequant ladies will reply.

But firstly tounreally need to consider HRT , you are two young to be without .

Before meno I was was au natural / calm . I am on HRT and local oestrogen, and will be for the rest of my days , some ladies need HRT and antidepressants.

Also get your B12, vit d , ferritin thyroid etc checked.

I am definitely not the person I was mentally 5 years ago , and find it hard to accept the new me.

[nearly50]

I've had similar too, not as intense as yourself but I've woken up during the night with a feeling of impending doom and had fairly irrational thoughts which I haven't been able to shake off. If it isn't too bad, I can remind myself that it is hormones, but sometimes I can spend hours obsessing over something nonsensical. Last week I cried for ages over a picture of a missing dog on twitter - I'm normally a fairly rational person so this is very strange for me.

It is really rubbish, and I hope you feel a little better knowing you're not alone

[Dancinggirl]

To be oestrogen deficient at your age is bound to mess with your brain mumofthree - your symptoms sound like peri meno to me so your ovaries are probably packing up slowly - you are no alone feeling this way as it is very common when meno hits.  If HRT is not an option then an SRRI might worth trying.
I have ceratinly manage to reprogram me my brain with Mindful meditation but it doesn't work for everyone.
Try reading Mindfulness by Mark Williams and Danny Penham. DG x

[warwick01]

I could of written this post. I have suffered intrusive thoughts most of my life (about hurting my children) started after the birth of my Daughter 39 years ago. !0 years nothing then when I came off the pill they reappeared, now been suffering for about 5 years since I hit menopause. I am 58 in January and the last few years (thought I was having a breakdown) suffered extream anxiety, panic attacks, agrophobia.

I do have periods of feeling ok, but if I try to reduce my oestrogel it all comes back. Currently I am using 3 pumps of gel but want to reduce to 2 pumps due to age.

When I question my mental health re the thoughts I read a book called 'At last A Life' explains anxiety and intrusive thoughts.

Your not alone. Try not to let the thoughts scare you

Wx

[mumofthree]

Oh wow! I'm overwhelmed at all your replies. Trying hard to hold back the tears. I have been through other health problems and mental health problems are by far the worst especially when you don't know what to do.

It's so reassuring to hear your stories, but it also makes me so sad that we have to put up with all this sh*t. I know we shouldn't have regrets but I regret having a hysterectomy and I regret doing that awful job listening to horrific stories. When people say 'but it makes you who you are today and makes you stronger' sod that!! I don't want to be who I am today, I want to be who I was before.

I have always had an overactive imagination. I have friends including DH who don't have this type of imagination and they seem to have a simpler time and a more positive outlook on life. I dream of being one of those people, a simple thinker, nothing too complicated.

I found my old posts on here from 2013 when it all started and can see I tried HRT Elleste ? for 3 months but still had anxiety and crawling under my skin so the GP stopped it saying that it wasn't hormal as those feelings would have gone? She gave me Prozac or whatever the proper name is but I stopped it after 2 weeks feeling very very odd!

I had a breast abnormalitywith pre-cancerous cells removed last year. I saw a gynecologist a few months ago after getting period type pains and he said he doesn't think any GP would touch me with a bargepole with HRT. He suggested I see a Psychiatrist as they can prescribe and to just go private!!!

Warwick01 I'm so sorry that you've had these thoughts for so long. I often feel like my mental symptoms sounds similar to post natal depression, which I think is also hormone related? I also wonder if it's a male hormone thing. Mens brains work differently to ours and I think they think about 'stuff' more than us so could it be related to that? I really don't know. I just want someone to fix me.

Should I make another GP appt? At least 3 GP's have said I don't need HRT for my bones as I'm too young. I also worry that with HRT and AD's they just give me a bog standard one not something specific for my needs.

[warwick01]

mumofthree

You hit the nail on the head......... overactive imagination that's the key to intrusive thoughts. Let them come and don't try to push them away. If you ignore them knowing they are there to scare you, they lose their power and fade. Feel free to PM me if you need to talk to someone who unrestands.

Re HRT it may be worth having a telephone consultation with proff stud cost around £300 but I'm sure oestrogel will be ok for you regardless of history. In my opinion its quality of life.

By the way how old are you?

Wx

[mumofthree]

Warwick I'm 43 and had a hysterectomy at 32 keeping my ovaries. What would a phone consultation with Prof Studd do? would he prescrible?

Sparkle, I didn't know we could email Dr Currie. Have you done this before?

[mumofthree]

Sparkle, I've had a look and this facility is currently not available. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has had good results from AD's with my symptoms

[babyjane]

I have had a lot of trouble with anxiety and intrusive thoughts my whole life as a result of my upbringing.  It all came to a head the Christmas before last.  I think dropping levels of oestrogen probably brought it all to a head but it was all there long before menopause began.

I have been using a low dose antidepressant for a year now and I have also been having psychotherapy for the last 11 months.  In my case the combination of these two treatments have made an enormous difference.  My anxiety over the course of my life had become like an enormous tangled ball of wool.  The ADs helped get me on an even keel so that I could untangle the muddle with the help of a very skilled therapist who was exactly right for me.

A lot of it can be hormonal but I do not believe it all is.  In my case it was not caused by hormones but was certainly triggered by them.

[Dancinggirl]

Excellent post babyjane.  You have been open to help and been prepared to put the work in to bring a positive outcome - I am sure this will carry you through for the rest of your life and will benefits those around you as well.

I went through this very tough time both hormonally and emotionally in my mid 30s.  I started getting peri meno symptoms and then I was told my son had a language disorder that puts him within the autistic spectrum.  My excellent GP (an older lady who had been a gynae) simply told me, "if I was her daughter she would insist I use HRT” and then firmly told me I was to turn up the next day to spend an hour with their resident counsellor.  I went on to have a year of therapy. She started me on a path that saw me emerge much stronger and able to be the mother I needed to be for my children.
In hindsight, I realise I was very lucky to get this help but I did have to be open and allow myself to be guided. Recognising you need help is the first big step to getting better.

I woke last night at 4am - my brain started to dwell on so many things that bother or worry me  - I used my Mindful technique, which involves taking myself mentally into a place where I can feel confident and happy, and within a short time I was able to relaxant feel calm. 
Dg x

[Hurdity]

Mumofthree - so sorry to hear about what you're going through and sorry I can't help as I have never had thoughts or experiences like this so I have nothing I can share as the others have in this respect.

It is clear from what you say that you are peri-menopausal - even if your FSH is currently low - the ups and downs and mood swings surely have to be due to extreme hormonal surges, and especially if you suffered PND (did I read this overleaf?). FSH levels are very variable and a one-off reading does not say a lot - really after the level of 3 was obtained you should have had another 4-6 weeks later to see how it varied.

If you do go through menopause before the averagae age of menopause around 51 then ideally you do need oestrogen to protect your bones but because of your possible breast issues you would definitely need referral to a specialist to say yay or nay and at least monitor you - if you do take it, and monitor your bone health too. Absolute rubbish that you are too young!!! It is stage not age that counts when it comes to menopause and ovarian function!

If you are unable to take HRT and perhaps anyway in your position I would try anything I could to make sure I could function better - so all the way others have suggested - counselling (if you have long-term issues that need talking through like babyjane), ADs, mindfulness - and plenty of outdoor exercise and a good diet which go without saying.

As Dr Currie is unavailable for a couple of weeks I have contact details of another doctor that someone passed to me who gives free advice so I will pm you rather than put it on here in case she is inundated and withdraws the service!

Wishing you all the best.

Hurdity x 

PS Edit - there is also the Women's Health Concern who give telephone or e-mails advice for £20 for 10 mins. This is the patient arm of the British Menopause Society https://www.womens-health-concern.org/ (scroll down to see the advice box). x

[SueLW]

I'm no expert but I have had terrible thoughts in the past few years and horrible anxiety.

I have read that if you have had an oestrogen receptive cancer, you can take testosterone instead of oestrogen.  But I'm pretty sure that here in the UK you would have to see a private specialist for this treatment.  I don't think our GP's think testosterone is for anyone other than men!

[mumofthree]

Hello again, just an update...

Firstly, thank you all for your advice and support. A few days after writing this the awful thoughts/anxiety/panic etc stopped. Also the severe breast pain started again so I'm convinced it's hormonal.

I have decided to see a Psychologist. I cannot cope with these kind of intrusive thoughts and anxiety if it carries on for years with meno. It is a very expensive decision and we only have basic incomes with a little bit of savings but my husband keeps reminding me that it's only money and my mental health is more important. I've had my first assessment and the lady I'm seeing is very clued up on menopause which is fab. She thinks it may all be related to my past and the job I did but also from peri-meno.

I'm just updating incase anyone else is suffering the same. I know a lot about counselling and I feel these thoughts/anxieties are too big a problem for talking therapy which is why I've gone down the Psychology route.

Thank everyone