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[CLKD]

Yep.  On days when I am anxiety free - not many; I wonder why it makes me feel so ill.  When it strikes I'm floored  hence the emergency meds.  2-day it's background ……. >sigh<

[walking the dog]

So do you think its anxiety ckld rather than hormones or anxiety caused by hormones? So difficult to tell.
I'm not on any ADs now due to lack of success but have been offered sertraline again at a high dose if i want to try again, I'm putting it off as just started my DBT yesterday and want to give that a try drug free , but may have to consider sertraline if DBT doesn't help me cope😐

[CLKD]

My anxiety began at age 3.  My PMT was easy to chart …….. and hormones haven't had an impact on anxiety, maybe because I've had treatment for years (1990s)?

[jobeckett]

Hi Mojo61,

I cannot sympathise with you more.  I am in exactly the same situation having had the absolute horrors with anxiety and panic attacks, insomnia and many other symptoms.  I'm 49 - I've been on Citalopram for 8 months (along with various high BP meds, valium for the worst days and sleeping tabs).  I've also had 8 sessions of CBT which are not helping.  Today I started HRT (feel very nauseous) which I had huge reservations about before getting so desperate so I'm hoping it will help. 

I am virtually paralysed with anxiety in the mornings and a different person at night - just don't understand what happens to my body during my sleep hours to feel so abnormally different upon waking.  I also lost 2 stone and my GP sent me for blood screening to check there wasn't anything sinister going on (there wasn't). 

I really hope your situation calms down - it's such a worry when you can't control these symptoms - it's nearly cost me my job and my friends!

I'm trying to be positive and hope the HRT works otherwise I'm coming off it.

Sending hugs and support to you.

Jo x

I've been on Citalopram for over 5 months now and I'm still struggling every single day. I'm also on HRT (been on that for 7 months) and I have no idea what is doing what, all I know is that I'm suffering terribly and can't seem to shift the anxiety/depression. I've had 12 weeks of CBT which didn't really do anything at all and I'm about to start counselling (person centred) to see if that might help.

Like you Menomale, mornings are absolutely my worst time, evenings are better and some evenings I feel virtually "back to normal" only to have that feeling cruelly ripped away upon waking the next day. Every morning I spend at least 20 minutes dry heaving because I feel so sick, my mind is going 10 to the dozen, I'm sweaty and shaky and can just about manage a cup of tea. I've lost well over 2st in weight since this first started back in November last year and I would give anything to be rid of this awful thing.
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[Ambert]

I've just read this fascinating thread....it strikes a real chord with me. It's like a chicken and egg situation isn't it? It's hard to know what has sparked my terrible anxiety off, but all I know is that it has coincided with the beginning of quite severe peri/meno symptoms.

What saddens me most is the number of women who must be struggling so much to just survive on a daily basis. We all know how hard it is to wake up in the morning feeling like sh*t and have to get kids ready, get ready for work, endure that for the day, then have to come home, cook, clean, help with homework, etc etc, amongst trying to find time for ourselves! It's so hard, and so many of us do this day in, day out without making a fuss or asking for help. It's so very sad 😞😞

[MIS71MUM]

Oh my gosh - reading this makes me have flashbacks about what happened to me last year.
Exactly a year ago, I was in exactly the same boat. Can't exactly say whether the hormones caused the anxiety or a depressive episode but the weight loss and the horrible mornings were life changing. Like many of you say, I was absolutely fine at night and felt myself, but mornings were raw.
A year on, what's different...I take 30mg duloxetine and have been taking various doses of HRT since March this year.
This time last year, I was also anaemic and Vitamin D deficient. I would urge any of you ladies going through what you are, to get these checked.
There is also a lot spoken about adrenal glands and how they can misfire and cause anxiety. I take a very effective multi vitamin with massive doses of Vit B, magnesium etc to repair my adrenal glands.
Currently off HRT whilst I prepare for an operation with a general anaesthetic and so far I am okay.
Also if you aren't getting any relief from your antidepressant, I would make sure I took so it had the most in my bloodstream in the morning.

If that doesn't work, you need to see your GP and ask for something different.

I hope this helps, I personally know how long this road can be, but you will get there
.

[dangermouse]

Our natural adrenaline kicks in at around 5/6am in the morning, it then falls around 8/9am and starts going up around lunchtime, peaking at 5/6pm and then gradually falls at around 8pm.

High oestrogen (e.g. from oestrogen upsurges in peri) causes adrenal rushes as its over-stimulating. Low oestrogen (down surges or post meno) causes the brain to panic at the lack oestrogen and throw out adrenaline to keep the heart beating. Hence, both situations can cause physical anxiety which is felt more at the peak adrenal times. A graph can be found here https://goo.gl/images/khEsvt

If you get the anxious feelings out of the blue, say when engrossed in a film, then it's likely to be hormonal. Also, physical anxiety cannot be brought down directly by the mind, in the way that emotional anxiety can (although hypnosis can work by manipulating the central nervous system).

Beta blockers dampen adrenaline and cortisol, so can directly calm things down. I had to resort to them when my hormonal anxiety was making my, already severe, nausea worse and they were a real help to take as and when. Once my surges calmed down I could just ride out the anxious feelings and I found watching creepy films helped, as you're meant to be feeling scared so your hormones and reality are more in sync! The relaxing stuff is great too though for keeping you from worrying at the same time.

For all the belief driven anxiety, habits can make us feel as if it's just part of us and will never change but it's never too late to completely turn things around! Windy Dryden's books may be of help to some of you which are is based on Rational Emotive Behavioural Therapy and he has a workbook where you can be your own therapist. REBT basically changes unrealistic/unhelpful anxiety, depression and anger etc. to realistic/helpful concern, loss and annoyance. It's simply the exaggeration of what is really happening, or what might happen, that creates the exaggerated feelings.

[CLKD]

Cortisol surges early morning    - I've had all the therapy available that's legal and it won't alter my reaction to perceived or real stress - mine began within hours of being born 

I know why it happens and I know what I could do to ease it but nowt works …….. except the emergency med. which fortunately I don't require often.  Part of my problem is that I have no way of dissipating anxiety whereas years ago …….. work situations, acting, singing, any nerves went once I started what it was that I was doing.

[dangermouse]

I think it's quite normal to react with fear to perceived or real stress, it's an inbuilt protective mechanism, but if you believe something is a concern rather than a terrible threat, then you can process it in the same way that you process normal concerns like, say, which film to watch. It's all about perception.

Well done for coping for so long!

[Meg]

I think that if I was to embark on an antidepressant, which I have been hesitant to do and say that I could tolerate it then, if it worked to bring the anxiety under control, it would be for the rest of my life.  I have worries about possible short and long term side effects!  I know all of this is hormones but like many women wonder about replacing hormones for the rest of natural life too! That's even supposing the unlikely event that you could get a doctor to prescribe for that length of time or you could tolerate say bleeding for years maybe.  I wish there was a magic answer out there for us who are suffering.

Meg

[Tempest]

I think I shall need to be on HRT for life. I know for a fact my anxiety problems are related to my lack of hormones post oopherectomy as I've been tracking my symptoms closely. There is no way that I will be able to go through the rest of my life in hormone deficit.

My experiences of receiving treatment via the NHS, much less any understanding has been abysmal. This in itself has added enormously to my anxiety. I am beyond exhausted and appalled that we ladies in menopause cannot get any understanding or support during this very difficult time, and are constantly being pushed to accept AD's instead of adequate HRT.

I think we could be looking at 2 different scenarios here however. I think there are ladies who experience anxiety and or depression for the FIRST TIME during menopause, and those who already had a susceptibility before, and for whom the menopause has exacerbated this. In the latter, AD's or even mood stabilisers may well be very valuable in ADDITION TO HRT.

What I find worrying is when GP's shift the balance away from menopause, and try to convince ladies that they are solely suffering from a mental disorder. I have seen and read about far too many instances of this, and indeed have had experience of this myself (some of you may already know my story).

[CLKD]

Initially when prescribed an AD and advised to take a low maintenance dose daily, for Life, I fought against it. Until I realised that Himself and I have a Life again.  I NEVEr want to feel *that* ill again  .

After all, how long is 'Life'?

[Tempest]

Indeed, CLKD! You are so right, and I'm so glad that you're able to feel so much better and enjoy life with Hubby again.

I'm on the cusp of launching 'plan B' next week, as I really don't like the direction I've been forced down by my GP and the Menopause Consultant. It is very, very clear that I'm suffering from FADS following my oopherectomy, and I will be phoning that 'certain Consultant' next week to see how I can get off this wretched Premarin and onto a more suitable regime.

I have read so many times your wonderful quotes about how we should live our lives, and I find inspiration in that. You have overcome many things yourself, and always have a kind word for others. Thank you. xxx

[CLKD]

   probably because I'm older than most of you here 

Anxiety has ruled my Life at times.  I appreciate every moment that I am free of it!  I stand sometimes absorbing the 'no anxiety' feelings ………. but despite being told by various 'experts'/Psychologists to remember how calmness feels when anxiety strikes, no way can I recreate those feelings  .

Meg - unless you try you will never know.  Why suffer if there is easement?

[Meg]

Thank you CLKD for your words.  I have always been a worrier but menopause has ramped everything up for me and I am always thinking doomsday scenarios but I do appreciate your kind comment.  Like Tempest, I too am perturbed that women are often being diagnosed with psychiatric conditions when it is their sex steroid hormones which are the issue.  It is the loss of these which are causing the various and sometimes devastating physical and mental issue

Meg