Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 81 out now. (Autumn issue, September 2025)

media

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Insomnia  (Read 13924 times)

Janice68

  • Guest
Insomnia
« on: August 26, 2016, 07:09:05 AM »

I know this topic has been discussed so many times on the forum. I have almost exhausted every avenue with this even trying over counter remedy's which for me is useless.
I was on a low dose sleeping pill which did help me to a point of getting a few hours sleep which is better than nothing. But not allowed to take it anymore addiction and all of that but at least it was giving me some relief!! Even though I know it's not the way forward too.
Hrt is not an option for me either and when I was trialing it never helped anyway. I don't do well on meds anyway side effects etc.
Anyway saw doc on Monday she has given me  15mg Mirtazapine to take before bed time I am also on 20mg of cipramil for my anxiety too. Just wondering is anyone taking 2 ADs one for anxiety the other one for sleep?
I've been on the Mirtazapine for 4days now so far it hasn't done anything for my sleep I have to say I'm so tired to the point my body aches at the moment! If anyone is using this med and if it helps you sleep how long if it does help with sleep how long can it take till it works? Any ones experiences pls wld be appreciated with Mirtazapine I have used this before with no luck but trying again alongside my other Ad cipramil as i said before now I can't use the sleeping pill.
Any ideas wld be appreciated
Jan x

« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:50:26 AM by Jan68 »
Logged

Taz2

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26853
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 07:45:32 AM »

Sorry that you are having such trouble sleeping Jan - it can make you feel so ill as well as just plain exhausted.

It does seem odd that you are on both the Cipramil and Mirtazapine because these two drugs seem to work in conflicting ways. I found this article which you may find helpful in making a decision as to whether to continue due to the mention that insomnia is a side effect of withdrawing from Mirtazapine https://www.sleepio.com/articles/sleep-aids/mirtazapine-and-sleep/.

Obviously your GP has prescribed this for a reason but I always think it's a good idea to do a bit of hunting around ourselves to see how the medications actually work on the body. Do you get to sleep ok and then wake up in the early hours?  Cipramil is known to cause insomnia along with all of the SSRI's so this may also be causing your lack of sleep?

Taz x  :hug:


Logged

Taz2

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26853
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 07:49:19 AM »

I also found this which does state that another drug could be prescribed if insomnia due to SSRI's is a problem. It all gets very confusing but worth thinking about

"SSRIs

The SSRIs are characterized by selective inhibition of the presynaptic serotonin transporter, leading to enhanced activity of serotonin at postsynaptic receptors.3 A large number of serotonin receptor subtypes that regulate sleep and wakefulness as well as transitions between specific sleep stages, such as the termination of REM sleep, have been identified.

Because of the complexity of serotonin involvement in sleep-wake regulation, drugs that modulate serotonin activity can produce prominent and sometimes diverse effects on sleep. Some patients who took fluoxetine reported insomnia as an adverse effect, whereas other patients experienced daytime somnolence.11 This same pattern of diverse subjective reports on sleep and wakefulness has been reported in clinical trials with all of the drugs in this class.

While data have been reported most extensively for fluoxetine and paroxetine, class effects of SSRI therapy appear to include increased sleep onset latency and/or an increased number of awakenings and arousals, leading to an overall decrease in sleep efficiency.12,13 Virtually all of the SSRIs examined have been noted to suppress REM sleep.1 Clinically, reports of a change in the frequency, intensity, and content of dreaming can be associated with SSRIs, as well as the occurrence of these symptoms on discontinuation.

Be mindful that treatment of a patient with depression may produce significant improvement in symptoms of depression in general, yet may not address insomnia. In some cases, treatment with an SSRI may produce or exacerbate problems with sleep disturbance. Therefore, a medication that targets insomnia may also be prescribed for patients with depression who are being treated with an SSRI"

Taz x
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 08:03:57 AM »

Hi Taz, ( We can get better......) Eh

Yep it's not my cipramil causing any problems that's for sure you know when you no Taz2.

Doc said the Mirtazapine works a different way on the brain but I have to say I'm not depressed. She put me on it to help me sleep because they have stopped my sleeping pill. As I've said not a lover of this Ad did nothing for me before. Then I swapped over to my cipramil which stopped my panic attacks and helped with anxiety where mirtazapine didn't makes you put weight on too.
She did say they work together but I couldn't increase I suppose.
This insomnia is caused by hormones I'm afraid but i will try this regime for one month.
Thanks for link
Thanks for hugs I need it so tired just seen another message you have sent your lovely thanks Taz2 x
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 11:07:02 AM by Jan68 »
Logged

Taz2

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26853
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 08:07:07 AM »

I expect it works by upping the whatever it is that the Cipramil lowers or is it the other way round  ;D  Here's to it beginning to work soon. You can feel so alone when you can't sleep - like you are the only person awake in the whole world!

Taz x
Logged

Taz2

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26853
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 08:12:19 AM »

We CAN get better!

Taz x  :D
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 08:19:11 AM »

I know it is very confusing!! It doesn't take much for me to get confused these days  ;D saying that I'm so tired no wonder I Get so confused.

 Thanks Taz2 for your help!!! I appreciate it too!!
Lack of sleep is horrible you just don't function properly it's a nightmare!! Now I no why people get hooked on sleeping pills you just want to switch off and sleep and for me it was the easy root out of it.
Well at least I'm going to try this regime anyway .Well for 1 month anyway.

Cheers Taz2
Janx


Logged

Dana

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 631
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 08:20:31 AM »

Hi Jan

Just wondering why hrt isn't an option for you. Speaking for myself, insomnia is my major menopause symptom and without hrt I would be a suicidal basket case.

Nothing over the counter worked for me either, with the exception of doxylamine (a sedating antihistamine), but I wasn't about to start taking that constantly. An amitriptyline AD (Endep) also worked, but once again I wasn't about to start taking that constantly either. I was prescribed diazepam very early on in my menopause saga and I became dependent on it and had to do a very slow taper off it, and that was NOT fun, so I definitely agree that you don't want to go down the sleeping pill path at all.

If you are able to try hrt again, perhaps the dose you were on before was too low and that's why it didn't help.
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 08:21:57 AM »

I've not gone yet!!!( You no what I mean Taz2)

 ;D
Logged

Clovie

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 580
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 08:38:40 AM »

I had dreadful awful unrelenting insomnia for years, before getting a low dose of an older type anti-depressant, amitriptyline (dosage 25mg - quite a bit too low to be effective for depression) Since then I have had in the main perfect sleep and no bad side effects.

Before getting this medication I had been taking OTC sleeping pills but as they lose their effect quickly I would do something like, first night take quarter of a dose, next night half a dose,  next 3/4, then full dose, then go cold turkey again for a good few nights before starting it all again - it was a total farce.

Just to say - At the same time as being given the amitriptyline I  was also given Oestrogel instead of the oestrogen tablets I'd been on. Can't say for sure which is responsible for my sleep improvement but think it might be the amitriptyline as others have noted sleep improvements with it.
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 08:43:06 AM »

Hi Dana,
Hrt dosent agree with me I've tried quite a few regimes in the past. I've been off hrt for 4 months now. I've decided at the moment to stop and I've exhausted that area too also. I'm sorry to say it never helped me either. It either made it worse for me and I also suffered from horrible side effects too. The last one I tried upset my stomach so much I couldn't eat.

So at the moment I decided to give my body a rest from that side of things and to see where Im at.
 
My cipramil Ad helps with anxiety side of things. I take my supplements daily. I don't take anything for my poor over heated body hot flushes due to the fact for me personally I seem to aggravate the problem and make it worse not better.
The problem like so many people I am very sensitive to medications too.
That's why I have trouble taking hormones!
Im so glad hrt helps you and many others with sleep!! We are all so different I'm afraid!!
Im afraid can't use amitriptyline either!!
Cheers janx
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 08:56:34 AM »

Thanks Clovie
Interesting about how we have used sleeping pills.

After my trial I might even consider the amitriptyline route but as you said the low dose one. It didn't agree with me years ago but you never no at a low dose now.

Thanks janx
Logged

Dana

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 631
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 09:26:09 AM »

I agree with Clovie about the dose of the amitriptyline AD. If I'm having trouble sleeping 25mg does the trick. With the doxylamine antihistamine about 6mg is enough.

When I was going through the worst of my sleeping pill taper I would take one of them for about 5 nights and then switch to the other for 5 nights, and then back again. That way I never became tolerant or dependent on either of them.
Logged

Janice68

  • Guest
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 09:45:11 AM »

Cheers Dana, out of interest can the 25mg of amitriptyline be taken with cipramil 20mg.
Am waiting on a call from doc now having awful time with Mirtazapine no sleep and side effects too. At least I no why I did not want to go back on that one  now!
Cheers for the tips we do become tolerant to things!!
Thanks janx
Logged

dazned

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1715
Re: Insomnia
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 10:03:48 AM »

I use mirtazapine 15 mgs,for me it stopped all anxiety,palps,etc and my insomnia was dramatically improved within a week !  However I'm not using any other ad so maybe the two are interacting in someway. Shows how different we all are. 15mg mirtazapine is the dose that should cause sedation when taken at bedtime,the higher you go the less efective it is for sleep.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3