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Author Topic: What Am I Doing Wrong?  (Read 8458 times)

Kathleen

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What Am I Doing Wrong?
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:43:53 PM »

Hello ladies.

I have a question for you and I hope you can help me.

I have been on Evorel Conti 50 mcg for over a year and about six months ago I started cutting a little off as  a way of reducing the dose as I am 59 and postmenopause. In all I have been using HRT for nearly three years and I see from my diaries that I have experienced flushing, quivering and some type of palpitation every day!

Would you think that the HRT should have eliminated these problems entirely, what am I doing wrong? I did try  75 mcg patch for a while but that caused bleeding.

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I would be interested to know if other ladies are or have been in a similar position and if you were able to resolve the problem. I am in the middle if another panicky day and am in need of ideas!

Wishing everyone well and thanks for reading.

K.
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CLKD

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 06:55:03 PM »

Why  :-\ - if you are having some relief stick with it?  If you were taking heart medication or pills for diabetes …….

If it ain't broke, don't fix it  :-\
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Kathleen

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 07:02:07 PM »

Hello Stellajane.

Hijack away, no problems!

You are right, I want to be on as lower dose as possible by the time I'm 60 in September as I think my GP will start applying pressure to come off HRT altogether. I also had this daft idea that when I cut the patch I was at least reducing the progesterone as well as the oestrogen. I've also used Utrogestan in the past, both orally and vaginally and I still had the flushes and jitters.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and wishing you well.

K.
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CLKD

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 07:10:44 PM »

GPs aren't supposed to push for ladies to stop HRT if it's working  :-\.  Surely they wouldn't ask a patient to stop essential medication and surely HRT helps to protect bones …….. what's wrong with Quality of Life?
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Kathleen

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 07:16:33 PM »

Hello CLKD.


Thanks for replying.  My frustration is because HRT so far has only brought partial relief and I am still left feeling horrible for a portion of every day, my hope was for something better!

Take care.

K.
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CLKD

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 07:45:42 PM »

Is it possible to up the HRT rather than withdrawing? What do you hope to try once you have stopped …….. ?
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Taz2

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 09:47:17 PM »

Hello CLKD.


Thanks for replying.  My frustration is because HRT so far has only brought partial relief and I am still left feeling horrible for a portion of every day, my hope was for something better!

Take care.

K.

Hi Kathleen - as your symptoms were not totally banished by HRT did you ask for a higher dose to see if that made a difference? You would probably have to use a separate patch/progesterone regime as I'm not sure that the 75 patches come in a conti form.

Taz x
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Kathleen

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2016, 07:13:31 AM »

Hello Hasty and Taz2.

Thank you for your replies.

I have tried using 75 mcg with separate progesterone (  Utrogestan)  and I still had that flushy feeling. It also caused bleeding and tender breast so I had to reduce again. HRT has never completely irradicated my meno symptoms unfortunately.

I've been especially anxious this last few days, my husband thinks it's because we are having some major work done to the house starting tomorrow and he could be right!

I hate the way I can't cope with change these days even the thought of going out for a meal has me panicking.

I may have to visit my GP and see if he has any ideas. Although he's lovely and very sympathetic he confesses to knowing nothing about the menopause so I'm not holding out that much hope.

Take care ladies.

K.
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Hurdity

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2016, 10:18:29 AM »

Hi Kathleen

Don't apologise for repeating yourself - as i will also be doing so since I have answered similar queries from you over the past few weeks in the same vein!!!

I do feel like a broken record - but just one word - norethisterone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't emphasise enough that is well known that any woman taking synthetic progestogens continuously may well suffer from continuous low grade progestogenic side effects, and this is recognised by gynaecologists. Lower endometrial cancer risk - but you feel rough..... Norethisterone is synthetic, and does cause side effects in some women and it is quite strong. There is some information I have read ( sorry can't lay my hands on it) which indicates that progestogens can interefere with the beneficial effects of oestrogen elsewhere than the womb where it is intended to - and especially the synthetic ones! They also have an effect on blood sugar metabolism and I seem to remember that norethisterone does.

So - from the start in post-menopause you have been taking this as well as oestrogen. As you rightly say you have been cutting bits off to try to minimise the progestogen as you thought this might be the cause - but to no avail because your oestrogen is also decreased.

Laying aside the issue of coming off at 60 - (please - you do not need to if you have no risk factors - it is up to you not your doc! You must have read all the info and threads on here about this?). If you want to continue with HRT for the next few years it is worth persevering.

Many of us older women (late 50's and early 60's) on here have chosen to remain on a cycle or return to one - simply to avoid the continuous progestogens. You mention the effect of utrogestan - but how long did you take Evorel conti for before starting this, how old were you, how long since last period, and how long did you use it for, and was it in a cycle or continuous? Sorry - lots of questions! Oral Utrogestan may not be absorbed so well as vaginal so some women experience spotting etc. Did you get initial bleeding at all when you started the Evorel conti?

I'm not sure about "jitters" but I would definitely recommend going back to utrogestan and increasing your patch to 50 mcg. Personally I would go back to a cycle and try 50 mcg for say 3 weeks at least before starting utrogestan - maybe even 4 week. Then you would take a course of utrogestan and get a bleed. OK this means a rise and then fall in progesterone - but it is the most natural one you can get.  Try this for 3 months at least....

If this works and you feel generally OK and better - hopefully you will feel better on the oestrogen only part and maybe you could go to a longer cycle eg 6 weeks with permission from your doc and especially if you use Utrogestan vaginally. This wold give you longer on oestrogen alone which it sounds like you haven't yet tried?

If it is only mild anxiety - then there have been lots of posts on here with strategies and techniques how to cope with this range from Mindful meditation, yoga, relaxation, nomorepanic etc and these would pay dividends physically ( re stress) as well as mentally. perosnally I would go down this route rather than medicate anxiety.

Of course you are worried about major work starting on the house - who wouldn't be?! This is perfectly normal!!! I am a terrible worrier too - but I would never say I suffered from anxiety nor would I medicate it - but only you know if it is severe enough to prevent you from living a normal life and if it interferes seriously with what you are able to do.

In your position I would think about what I want to do re HRT and go to your doc with a plan rather than leave it in his hands as likely as not you will be prescribed ADs. I would not go down this route until I was sure my problems were not to do with the type of HRT I was using and I iad explored other options.

I do sympathise because those of us who still have a uterus have to continue with progesterone for ever if we want to remain on HRT long term - so it's put up with the side effects all the time, or have a bleed well into your 60's (like me - nearly 63).

If it's not the HRT then ADs may be your solution - but do please explore other avenues re HRT and thinking strategies before doing so.

Finally - how is your sugar intake - do you eat a lot of it? Cutting back on anything with sugar in including carbs will help stabilise blood sugar - spikes and falls in this can cause "jitteriness" !!

Oops got carried away as usual  ::)  but hope this helps :)

Hurdity  x
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Kathleen

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2016, 01:05:52 PM »

Hello Stellajane and Hurdity and thank you so much for your replies.

I think the time is right for me to go back to my GP and work on a plan! I am sure he will mention anti anxiety meds and I won't dismiss them but I will also study your comments Hurdity and see if I can make the HRT changes.

I'll get an appointment asap and I'll keep the forum updated.

Thank you ladies, you've made me realise that I need to change something as this situation has gone on long enough.

Wishing you well.

K.
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CLKD

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 02:22:25 PM »

I have to drive 10 miles in the morning not something I do regularly so I expect my anxiety to be up in the night  :-\.  I don't like workmen arrive either.
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Dana

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2016, 07:24:20 AM »

Hi Kathleen

How did you actually feel when you were on the 50 patch? If you felt okay chances are that's the dose you need to be on, but I agree with Hurdity that it could also be the norethisterone that's giving you grief. I tried continuous 50 patches last year and it was great for about 6 weeks, but then it all went south, and it took quite a while for me to bounce back. It was definitely the continuous norethisterone.

Also if you felt okay on the 50 patch, chances are the 75 was just too much estrogen. I did a similar experiment just recently. For some reason I went through a period of insomnia (not really that unusual for me), and I thought I'd see if I actually needed more estrogen. Well to cut a long story short, it was disastrous. I felt awful, but it took me a while to realise it was the extra estrogen, but as soon as I went back to my normal 50 dose, things settled down, and I've been fine ever since. It's case of a little is good, but too much is bad.

I get why you are wanting to reduce your dose. I'm in a similar boat as you. I can't take a continuous progesterone/progestin, so I have to stick with a cycle. I'm happy with my current routine of 10-12 days of Provera every 6-8 weeks, but as I'm approaching 60 (in a few years time) I know I am going to get less and less happy with having periods - so what is the solution?

I am also hoping that I can at least reduce my estrogen dose a bit, so I can take less progestin, but it may not work. That will leave with the horrible possibility of having to have periods well into my 70s and maybe even 80s. Perish the thought...  :o



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MarieMac68

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2016, 09:30:00 AM »

Hi
I'm new to this,so please bare with me.I've been on Evorel 50 for 11 days now& antidepressants after suddenly becoming extremely anxious to the point we had to cut our holiday short.My GP says it's my lack of estrogen, I've been going through the menopause for last 2 years.
I'm not having many good days,in fact I'm terrified,help?
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Taz2

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2016, 10:19:12 AM »

Hi MarieMac68 - welcome to the forum.

Lots of us on here can identify with exactly how you are feeling at the minute so you will be understood on here.

I see that you are on Evorel 50 patches. Have you had a hysterectomy because if not you will also need a progesterone to protect the womb.

Have a good look around the forum  - there is lots of information and help and support on here. Maybe introduce yourself under the New Members section too so that more members can welcome you.

Taz x  :welcomemm:
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CLKD

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Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2016, 11:31:20 AM »

 :welcomemm:  MarieMac68 - my GP prescribes an emergency pill for me to take when anxiety takes over on an 'as necessary' basis.  I also take 40mg beta-blocka at night.
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