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[CLKD]

> hands over glass < 

[Janice68]

Hi Halfpint,
Good tips!!  especially the advice brilliant!!
Ta

[Hurdity]

Hi Hurdity

Thanks for your advice. I know this, but I am in France and so NICE does not apply. I don't know what the guidelines are but I know many others my age have had trouble getting HRT prescribed. I have asked about it and been told 'non'.

I am 52 in June. Periods have been erratic (every 3 - 4 months) for two years or more. Last one proper one (very bad) end November. I have fibroids which were painful but not so much now. Other main symptoms joint/ everywhere pain and anxiety, also (apparently) bad-tempered and crying, oh and hairy chin, lol  . The stomach thing - gurgling and twinges that move about - I think may be just stress related, but I will get it checked out. I fear have developed a social anxiety as don't like going out. I used to hold down a stressful job and drive into Central London, now I can't even go to the supermarket.

I'll see how I get on if I go to Dr this week. Feeling better just posting here and knowing there are so many in the same boat.

Oh dear sorry to hear that. I thought they were really with it re HRT - estrogel - in France. If you are that young you definitely would benefit from it! Are there gynaes or menospecialists you can go to?

Re fibroids - oestrogen can make them grow so if they are large perhapas that's why the doc is saying "non"? However the info on this site suggest you can try with a Mirena which prevents oestrogen from thickening the uterus lining:

Fibroids
Fibroids are benign smooth muscle tumours of the uterine (womb) wall and are dependant on estrogen. They tend to shrink after the menopause but shrinkage may not occur, or they may even increase in size with HRT use. Increase is thought to occur in 25% of HRT users and mainly occurs in the first six months of therapy. There is some evidence that transdermal (patch or gel) but not tablet HRT nor tibolone may promote fibroid growth. [ref 24] Fibroid size can be monitored by regular examinations and sometimes by ultrasound scans. There is some evidence that the use of the progestogen releasing intra-uterine system, Mirena may cause fibroids to reduce in size. Mirena is often used in the perimenopause by women who have heavy periods and/or require contraception and can provide the progestogen part of their HRT.
void

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php#GlossF

You would then be able to add oestrogen in the form of gel - which as I said I thought was the most common type of HRT in France. I can see that it is much more difficult in a foreign country - but surely you should not be pushed into ADs unnecessarily?

You are lucky that you don't mention flushes or sweats as yet - perhaps the doc would be more likely to prescribe HRT if you had these?

Anyway good luck with whatever you end up with!

Hurdity x

[Bettyboo]

Thanks Hurdity - I certainly don't feel young 

Thanks for the info. I did see a gynae after I had the scan which discovered the fibroids (because I was getting ovulation pain - well, in fact have had it all my life except when on BCP - mittelschmerz, but I thought perhaps I could get the froggies to do something about it as UK Dr dismissed it). I hope I don't have to go back to see him as didn't care for him much. I don't seem to get on very well with Drs do I? OH says I am not assertive enough with them...

Anyway I have not been to Dr today as OH decided he needed the car to go and get some paint, then complained that I was not going to Dr - grr. I have found some Spasfon in the drawer (the Dr would deffo give me these as the French swear by them, anti-spasmodic for anything stomach/intestine etc related) so I have taken some of those. Today it feels like ovulation pain and there are other symptoms of this too, like the crying and mood, bloating, tender breasts. I will go to Dr before end of week though.

Didn't I mention the night sweats? Yes, get those as well but not as bad as 3 years ago. Also very dry skin, eczema, silent migraines, tingling ... the list goes on. But I must not wallow and all of you helped me a lot yesterday with your support. 

[Bettyboo]

Hi ladies

I thought I'd just give you a quick update. I finally managed to get to the Dr on Thursday. Had a good long consultation and told her everything, in fact I had written out a list so I ended up just giving it to her to read. She examined me to check for physical issues as at the time I had pains just about everywhere and stomach issues as mentioned before. She was certain that there was nothing really physical but that it was all due to anxiety. 

After discussion she said that she thought I had depression (symptoms like not wanting to go out, and my irrational fears etc) so she wanted me have ADs. I had a bad experience with amitriptyline in the UK about 15 years ago so I said I did not want them, she prescribed citalopram 10mg. I read the sheet and they seem to be for different types of anxiety. Anyway, took one Thursday evening and at first felt OK, had a slight headache when I woke up, but had my propranolol at breakfast and within a hour or so felt really weird. Headache just got worse and worse, felt sick, dizzy, could not eat anything. It was really embarrassing as had relatives here and that was stressful enough. So not taken any more and not sure what to do. It took all of yesterday before I felt better, in fact 24 hours after taking it I started eating normally again.

I know they take two weeks to work and it may get worse before it gets better, but OH who was against me taking them anyway, is not keen I try again. I was thinking of trying maybe 2.5mg or 5mg? Any advice?

thanks

BB
 

[babyjane]

Hi Betty, last October I was started on Citalopram 5mg and I experienced nasty side effects, so much so I rang the surgery and spoke to the pharmacist who said try to take it a day at a time but if it gets unmanageable stop taking them and see the doctor.  Anyway, despite the side effects I did start to feel a shift in my mindset and it was commented on by 2 people that I seemed more relaxed.  the side effects were bad for 5 days and then got less over the next week and I did quite well.

Sadly after 4 months the side effects started to return and it was no longer as effective.  I knew that the advice would be to increase the dose but I felt then I would be on a slippery slope to being dependent on ADs when I hadn't been depressed in the first place, so I decided not to take them any more.  It took me a good 2 weeks to get off them even at such a low dose, I had terrible mood swings (watch out world type) but then last night I slept through 7 hours and feel much better this morning.

ADs can help if you need the support and can grin and bear the side effects in the beginning.  They don't work for me but I just wanted to confirm that they do cause side effects which reach a peak and then ease off.

[Halfpint]

Hi Betty,
I have never taken AD's or anything for my anxiety as if I read the list of side effects on the leaflet, I will start to experience them because I have health anxiety. Did you read the leaflet and do you think it was your anxiety triggering the reaction?
With my anxiety, I sometimes let it beat me and so don't want to go out etc but I would never call myself depressed. I think some Dr's prescribe AD's too readily. I know anxiety is treated with AD's but did they not offer you any counselling rather than AD's?
You may have felt worse yesterday because you were panicking because of having visitors and feeling ill and this will have raised your anxiety. I would go back to the Dr and ask if there is anything they recommend to treat your anxiety/depression rather than AD's?
Did you feel better after talking it all through with the Dr? If so then counselling would probably help you just to talk to someone about how you are feeling.
x

[coldethyl]

ADs do take a while to get used to ( says her who has never managed more than a few weeks on one)- if you do feel clinically depressed, they should help alongside some counselling- doctors I find are used to patients wanting a quick fix and a prescription so have a tendency to go straight to ADs without exploring other avenues, in my experience. I'd look into some CBT or whatever is on offer where you are ( France?) x

[Bettyboo]

Thanks for your replies. I'm still not sure what to do. I don't think the reaction was HA - I can tell the difference between HA and flu for example and this was definitely really physical.

She won't refer me for counselling because of the language thing I'm sure, though I can speak French. There are English counsellors in the area (private) but I don't think OH would agree to that. He thinks I just need to get a grip.

I did think I was depressed. I did the test on the NHS website and it said so too. I have been scared/ not wanting to go out to supermarket/ walking/ restaurant etc. for weeks, crying all the time for no reason, unable to do anything instead of working, thinking black thoughts, want to go back to bed after I get up, and the HA. There is a trigger for this, something which happened last year, and I told her about it, which was good as not mentioned to anyone before (sorry to be a bit obscure). I felt netter after we discussed it. She gave me reassurance about this and has given me some coping medication for going out. I took that yesterday and went to restaurant with everyone and it was fine. We are going on a big six week trip in a few weeks and I really need to be better than I am now for that, otherwise I am not sure what will happen.

I might try 2.5mg tonight and see what happens. She said she only wanted me take them for six months max. I do meditation as well, I thought that was making me better but obviously not.   

[Halfpint]

It does sound like you are depressed. I would perservere with the AD's as others have mentioned, they do take a while to kick in and for the side effects to lessen. I hope  they help and you start to feel better soon.
Odd that she won't refer you for counselling when you can speak French? That's disappointing your husband thinks you should just get a grip. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't understand depression. I remember when my Auntie started to suffer from depression and my parents went to look after her for a bit but my Mum said 'she's getting on my nerves, she won't do anything or go out anywhere'! She had no patience for it at all and thought she shoud just get a grip! I did have a good conversation with my Auntie about it all when she was better and she said it didn't matter what anyone suggested to her or advised her, she just didn't want to do anything. She said it was like a dark cloud came over her and she didn't know  why or what triggered it. She's better now and luckily i never came back.
Glad to hear the coping medication worked. What is it called as I could do with some of that?!

[CLKD]

It's usual in the UK for GPs to prescribe ADs. Some do ease anxiety symptoms which seem  more like your problem i.e. not wanting to go out ……. when I was extremely depressed I couldn't get out of bed  .

The biggest problem I experienced was nausea which was intolerable.  It took 5 different ADs B4 I found 1 that helped plus 40mg BetaBlocka for anxiety.  It's not a cure and I still feel hung-over some mornings, but at least I am out and at it!

[Stylesm]

Hi i don't know if this will help but look at the book At Last a Life by Paul David.
I am in total understanding of everything you say and looking for stuff to help is time consuming but this book did help some ...not completely but it will help you understsnd anxiety and what we can do to help it after menopause dumped another unwanted feeling.
You are not alone .....

[CLKD]

 

[Bettyboo]

Update

Thanks for all your support. I have not taken any more and not sure what to do. I only took one and I wonder whether I should give it another go? Its escitalopram btw not citalopram, not sure if that makes any difference. A lot of the 'symptoms' have gone now (like the joint pain, wind, low mood, stomach pains) and this does lead me to think that they are cyclical.

The only thing that does not go and rests in the background is the fear of going out. I am OK round the house/ village and this only rears its head if I have to go anywhere further away. I've been really concentrating on the meditation and doing specific anxiety sessions. I did these before xmas and started to feel better.

I will have a look at that book Stylesm, thanks.

[babyjane]

Escitalopram is the sister AD to citalopram but apparently has less side effects although it often causes stomach upsets.  as I said a few posts back (I think) I was on the verge of stopping it after 5 days but then the SEs didn't get any worse and it started to settle.

I was stupid and came off after only 5 months and now think I was too hasty.  My GP is telephoning me shortly to discuss the way forward with me.