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[GypsyRoseLee]

On day 8 of the oestrogen only tabs of Femoston 2/10. Had 2 great days at the start of the week, but since then have felt wired, spaced out and jittery. Really not nice.

Today, it feels worse and I feel near to tears with it. Bizarrely my libido is back, alive and kicking though. Just don't understand it? Is it that I have too much oestrogen now?

Really strung out and so fed up with being constantly battered by all these conflicting feelings and this internal knot of anxiety.

[GypsyRoseLee]

And my boobs are still swollen and painful to the touch, too. I'm starting to spill out of my bras.

[dogdoc]

GRL...I've said it before and I know mine is not the popular opinion but for me estrogen does in fact cause me to be jittery, anxious, weepy and prone to panic attacks and PVC's. Ovulation ( when estrogen spikes) is my worst time of the month. Adding even a 25ug estrogen patch caused me to have unbearable jitteriness during ovulation, internal vibrations, buzzing sensations in my face and behind my eyes etc.

For this reason I have determined to not use any estrogen ( or progesterone either) until I start regularly skipping periods. The estrogen highs are still too high and cause a host of unpleasant physical and psychological symptoms, the estrogen lows suck also. I figure as long as I continue to have most of my periods my body is continuing to produce some estrogen. When my overall estrogen gets low enough to be skipping regularly ( late perimenopause) I will start supplementing in the hopes that the highs don't get too high anymore.

For me at least ( and maybe you too). Too much estrogen is as bad ( or dare I say worse) than not enough.
Tara

[babyjane]

I could never tolerate oestrogen either, not even after my hysterectomy (kept my ovaries).  I can only presume that I was making enough for my body's needs and other factors were also at play (long unnecessary story).

I never have taken HRT and have coped and managed so I don't think I have ever been completely oestrogen deficient although it must fluctuate because I get some flushes and sweats.  Not all women need oestrogen replacement all the time and sometimes it can make matters worse in my own experience.

[Hurdity]

babyjane - none of us are completely oestrogen deficient even at post-menopause - we still have some but it is at a much lower level. If you kept your ovaries after hysterectomy then yes you would still have been ovulating and hormones cycling until you reached menopause at which levels bottom out after a couple of years following - although I did read the whole process actually takes longer than two years after this (ie last period) to completely stabilise!  Anyone who is overweight has more because estrone is stored in fat cells and converted to estradiol. Once you are oestrogen deficient (as in - well post-menopause), and your hormone levels stabilise then added oestrogen should make you feel better overall moodwise anyway - but the issue with tolerance is often to do with the preparation chosen rather than oestrogen per se. We don't need it as such in that we can survive without it - but it is a question of various health issues at menopause and in the future and quality of life/ability to work - which affect us to a greater or lesser degree dependent on a combination of our genetics and lifestyle.

GypsyRoseLee - it is so difficult to tell what's what when you are peri-menopausal because of your own hormones coming into play. If you normally felt great during the mid point of your cycle then that's normal - but actual oestrogen levels are relatively meaningless. What happens if these are artificially increased beyond your normal peak - I've no idea. There is a known phenomenon called Tachyphylaxis which I expect you know about - where supra-physiological levels (higher than occur normally) can lead to re-appearance of the very symptoms the oestrogen is meant to treat. Studd refers to this on his website as a possibility with implants. Whether it can also occur if you take oestrogen and then have your own ovulation spike of oestrogen - I don't know! Not sure if anyone does either..... sorry that's not much help is it?!!!!

dogdoc - I can see your reasoning. The STRAW model of the stages of reproductive ageing and the NICE Guidelines define peri-menopause as starting when cycles first begin to lengthen because  it seems that although hormones begin to go awry before then, FSH levels are relatively low and oestrogen levels often normal - so during this late reproductive stage fluctuations are more extreme - extreme highs and extreme lows - leading to all the unpleasant symptoms - but not necessarily of prolonged oestrogen deficiency. One member ( Briony I think?) reported some gynaes talking of extreme pms which occurs at this point - but which then merge into peri-menopause. If this is the case then adding more oestrogen at a very high point may well cause adverse symptoms - but equally adverse symptoms can occur from the extreme dip at the end of the cycle - ie anxiety low mood etc. It is such a difficult time to treat and it seems there is not one magic solution at this stage - although from what women are saying this is the stage at which the CCP can control the cycle. This is only possible though for women who can tolerate large doses of synthetic progestogens - otherwise it is problematic.

Oh dear I'm not sure if I've said anything useful at all here - but all your comments made me think anyway....

Hurdity x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks for replying. I am very confused because I used to get 2 week stints of feeling virtually normal when on 50mg patches, last summer. Same when I went onto the BCP which is much higher oestrogen than Femoston.

But since coming off the BCP and firstly going back to just 50mg patches for a month, than swapping to Femoston I just seem to get only 2-3 good days occasionally. Mainly it's just grim drudgery where I'm forcing myself through the day, day after day.

[babyjane]

I know all that Hurdity, I feel like I have been to a seminar    I have tried HRT in the past, didn't get on with HRT so don't use HRT - simples, for me. I am fortunate in that I don't need it to function, I guess I am one of the lucky ones.   

[Niamh]

Hi GLR

Sorry to hear you're struggling as you know I'm using the ostrogel under Proff Studd and id dropped to 2 pumps thinking 3 sent me into a wired, anxious, loony insomniac he disagreed when we met and wanted me back on 3 pumps but yet again I ran into the same issues and so ive been in touch with him and he's told me to go back to 2 and use the Utro for 10 days rather than 7. It seems I'd swung too high on the ostrogen (for me) so he's reduced it and opposed it more with the utro for a few days longer. This will be interestingas im prog intolerant like you but I do find its ok used vaginally. So in answer to your question yes I think tipping the ostrogen too high does cause an issue and I think you're really similar to me and very sensitive. The beauty of the gel is you can tweak it and quickly see the result (well I do) and now back on 2 within a few days I feel good again...hang in there for Dr Annie xx

[Hurdity]

I know all that Hurdity, I feel like I have been to a seminar   

 ..... not sure what's funny or why you even said that?

Hurdity

[babyjane]

because you sometimes read like a lecturer addressing students. I wouldn't normally comment but you addressed the comments to me directly, so I did

[Mary G]

Niamh, I'm glad you are feeling better now that you have adjusted your dose.  The problem is, everyone is different and we all react differently to all types of medication so flexibility is the name of the game here.  It takes time to get the dose right but once you do, it's worth sticking with it.  Don't be surprised if you have to tweak a bit more at some point but the beauty of gel, and to some extent the Utrogestan, is you can easily adjust the dose. 

GPL, I'm sure you will get there in the end.  Once you have seen Dr. Evans, I'm sure you will feel better and you can be confident that she will prescribe the right medication for you.  I bet that appointment can't come soon enough!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Well, I for one, am incredibly grateful for Hurdity's insight and expertise. Her posts are extremely informative.

When you're dealing with, often, very complicated interactions between people's differing physiology and a multitude of HRT regimes surely the most effective way to put across the information is in Hurdity's very clear, succint style?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Niamh

Did you find you went too 'high' after several days on 3 pumps? I think when you're fluctuating as much as we probably are, and so sensitive to the fluctuations, then you almost need to adjust the oestrogen on a daily basis.

Or, alternatively up to 4 pumps, and suffer until the uber oestrogen has shut down your own ovulation so you don't get those fluctuations.

Today, again, I feel really quite well and with none of that knotted anxiety/agitation. It's lovely. But I have no idea how I will feel tomorrow.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks MaryG. It's 4 weeks and 5 days, and counting...til I see her

[babyjane]

My apologies, my attempt at humour isn't always to everyone's taste. I don't know what I was doing in an  HRT thread anyway, I will mind my own business in future.