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[purdey]

HI Hurdity,
Thanks for your welcome  I've seen some of your posts and they've been very useful.

Yes sorry meant to say Oestrogen in the form of Estraderm 50 MX.

  My periods had become closer together sometimes, irregular pattern, heavier and longer. The PMS wasn't too bad as i have been on evening primrose and Multivits for years but the anxiety peaking before my periods was becoming an issue the last year as were headaches and then October , sleeplessness, heart palps, indigestion which led me to believe there was a pattern related to hormones and my blood test said i was in early peri. I was put on beta blockers back in September too, but was actually going through something stressful , I came off them when I started getting heart palps and anxiety as weirdly thought it was them at first but maybe it was the peri?? I was getting weird hunger for some time but hadn't thought this was meno! and emotions all over the place but then i have been under a lot of stress the last 3 years so it's hard to unravel which is which!!

NO hot flushes....but i've read not everyone necessarily gets them...is that true? or do I have them to look forward to too?? Do you think I'm starting HRT too early then if i haven't got flushes

was wonderen if you know any of the answers to my questions to DancingGirl in my previous post......there's so much to get my head round it's really good to talk to others who've been through it and understand about peri and meno...but i get that in the end we are all different in how we react

 Do you know what are the symptoms of progesterone intolerance are? I'm so new to all this it feels like there's so much to get my head round!!

I'm feeling a bit down about the whole HRT thing at the moment as today my hairdresser made me feel like I was making the wrong choice when i told her...she thinks I am only delaying the inevitable by taking HRT and that i'm taking it too early and will only have to face all the symptoms when I have to come off it ,after the maximum 5 years i can be on it, is this true??

Thanks so much for your help X

[purdey]

HI again Hurdity...
Just thought do you know anything about Oestrogen doses?...

do you think my doc started me on too high a dose of Oestrogen...originally she put me on Evorel Conti 50. saying it was the lowest dose, so that's why my doc gave me the Estraderm 50 ....should i swap to 25 or 37.5 ?

Can i overdo the Oestrogen, especially if this is only early Peri and I might need more later on? what would be the symptoms of having too much Oestrogen?

Sorry if I'm bombarding you with questions just so desperate to get this right!!
thanX

[dolly64]

Hi purdey,thanks for your reply.The gentle yoga sounds interesting,will look that up later.Its definitely made me not feel so sorry for myself joining this forum as its clear their is so many of us suffering because of our hormones.Like you ive been wondering if I should do Hrt or not,worrying of side effects,im awful like that.Im interested to see advice that you are given regarding some of your  questions as id like to know also.Im trying to be positive,keeping busy,so I don't over think.Hoping you get some more good advice soon.x

Hi Hurdity,thanks for the welcome.yes I was having hot episodes during the night mostly,sometimes seemed to co inside with the missed beats or palps.Ive had my periods messing me about on and off few years,lighter,heavier,short,long,late,early.usually a once a month migraine,either just before,sometimes during period.was getting very bloated and sore,hurting breasts.Dont know if connected but had also started suffering reflux.Actually ive had this other strange symptom which is weird,problems with my sense of smell,started going back years,but wasn't all the time,just occassionly,now its happening a lot of the time-I get a nasty smell that just stays around,like up my nose,for ages at a time,sometimes its after ive smelt a strong perfume,deoderant,petrol,ect,other times it just seems to appear.im also affected other ways with smells like perfumes,deoderants,i cant wear any at the moment,get headaches if somebody near me has strong smells on them,would be interested if anybody else experiences anything like this,or im just weird .

You seem very clued up with all this and its good to have somebody to help with advice or suggestions when us newbies havnt got much to go on,so thankyou. .

[purdey]

thanks dolly64,
hope we both get some more advise as its so helpful isn't it! You are doing so great....i am an over thinker too which doesn't help!! i think it also comes with wanting to be well informed and make good decisions as like you i am usually medication adverse! i found a good exercise for anxiety on the forum here's a copy and paste as can't work out how to share!..........

Here's the exercise my hynotherapist taught me last year to help me with anxiety and panic attacks. Think it's a NLP exercise as she was also qualified in that.I found it very helpful although haven't needed to use it for a while. Bear with me as will be a bit long-winded to explain.

You're going to be using 3 senses - sight (peripheral vision), hearing and touch. You can say it aloud but I always found doing it silently worked. It gets better with practice but it's the "doing" of it that's important not being good at it. If you lose the thread at any point, just start again.

Sit or lie comfortably and fix your gaze on a certain object. Start by noticing what you can see in your peripheral vision.

Here's an example of what you might say to yourself:-

I can see -

My tea mug on the table
The computer keyboard
A book

I can hear -

The hum of the computer
The wind in the trees
A car engine

I can feel -

My left forearm resting on the table
My bottom on the chair
My right big toe touching the inside of my slipper

I can see -

A picture on the wall
The wardrobe

I can hear -

The radio downstairs
The dog snoring

I can feel -

My left thigh pressing into the table
My tongue touching tne inside of my lower teeth

I can see -

The headphones on the desk

I can hear -

My breathing

I can feel -

My left thumb touching my index finger.


That's it! It takes a lot of concentration which is probably why it works. I find it gets harder to find the words as you go on - it's like your brain (and breathing) slow down and I suppose that's why it's relaxing. I used to do it lying in bed sometimes or even in the car (as a passenger!) Because my house is very quiet, I sometimes had to repeat the same sounds but that's not a problem. The "feel" one is fascinating as you're not moving and have to notice tiny sensations. My hypno said one of her clients used to go to the loos at work and do it if she was struggling.

Hope it helps - please give it a go. Even sitting here thinking about it and typing this out, I can feel myself "slowing down.

Bette x

[dolly64]

Thanks purdey,  perhaps that is a good exercise to do when I feel anxious in the car,travelling in the car is an area I need to work on more.i used to love going for drive somewhere with hubby,i cant drive myself,never got around to taking a test years ago.I wasn't very good at it .
Thanks again,and hope we both get sorted ,as well as all the other ladies on here.
dolly.

[Hurdity]

Hi again purdey

I'm losing track a bit with two welcomes going on ....

Not sure what you are still asking and where you are! Maybe have a read of this article about peri-menopause on this site which will help explain what's going on in your body:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/article-perils-of-the-perimenopause.php

It's true that not everyone gets hot flushes - but also it is more usual to get them when periods are skipped although some women are unfortunate enough to get them when periods are still regular and I presume are responding to the extreme fluctuations that begin to occur. Also there is a problem with defintion re peri-menopause - the medical definition as used by NICE is when periods start to get irregular and when periods become closer together is part of the late reproductive stage - however hormones have started changing then so presumably give rise to some symptoms. Also not everyone fits neatly into the definitions! If your doc has prescribed HRT then just carry on and see if it makes you feel better, and don't over analyse it - but try to find out as much as you can by reading the info this site (tabs at the top).

Re the progesterone intolerance - extreme prog intolerance is quite rare but mild intolerance very common. Also many women are fine with their own progesterone (apart from usual bloating, breast pain etc) but react to the synthetic progestogens. Most women expect to have some form of pms when they change from the combi patches or pills to the oestrogen only ie just before the bleed - just as in their own cycle. Hope I'm not repeating what's already been said - there is a lot to read through!

Hurdity x

[purdey]

Hi Hurdity,
Thanks for replying, sorry its got a bit confusing. What you say makes sense about Peri and flushing.

I went back to the docs yesterday as although she swapped me from Evirel Conti to an oestrogen only patch and Uterogestran , she had left me on the 50 dose. As im only starting Peri and reading all the advise on here to start low , i was concerned that some of my symptoms might be too much oestrogen , so im tapering down to Estradot 37.5 on Friday for two change of patches then moving to 25 after that.

Also she has agreed i can go and see a specialist as i would feel happier speaking to someone with more knowleadge , especially considering she prescribed wrong hrt to start with and also my symptoms don't fit her definition of peri and she had questions whether i was far enough into Peri to warrant HRT, though she took on board that last month i had pretty much instant symptom relief with in a week. I have so many questions myself that both doctors don't seem to be able to answer very well either!!

Anyhow i have an appointment in January. Dolly64 if your doc isn't that good i would insust on seeing a specialist save yourself my headache of getting off to the wrong start!!
 
Thanks again Hurdity....i am taking a crash course in Peri and there is alot to take in but also very useful, give thanks for all of you wonderful women sharing your exoeriences on here! As usual the people who have to live with this are the real experts!
Hope everyone is getting a good nights sleep....i would have been but my cat woke me up! Off to get my 24 heart monitor in the morning, sure it will be linked to Peri and nothing more!!

X

[Maryjane]

I am peri age 49 regular as clockwork periods no hot flushes which unfortunately seem to be the bench mark for peri. What I do have for the last two years is truly awful VA/ bladder issues.usual treatment vagifem or the likes as your told its local nothing else is required.

WELL I went to see Dr Annie Evans last Friday, 5% of ladies peri/meno is all bladder/vagina and local oestrgen is not enough both are required. So already 6 days in problems I didn't even overly notice are sore itchy eyes gone. Itchy shins gone. Aching joints greatly reduced. The last three nights I have not needed to get up for a P ( amazing ). This is the area of much anguish My vestibule/vulva/ urethra are pink not red raw. My labia have thickened up. Lubrication is returning. My internal organs ( womb etc ) feel like they have been lifted up. My P smells fresher. My P stream is stronger. Generally less painful when I wipe myself.

So for the first time in two years I have hope , the area is still irritated but has most definitely improved I can wear pants again. I SO doid not want to go down the HRT route as we are told its , "Natural" this time of our lives I can tell you there is nothing natural about what I have been through, Dr Annie said collegen reduces and can have a huge knock on effect for some through there body, and no so called " expert" knows how we feel and if we should be or should not be in the menopause. I first went to a gynae 2 and a 1/2 years ago know and the first thing I said is this hormones he said oh no your to young take some  Noratriptyline for pain, and there began a medical merry go round of spaecialists , I was prescribed vagifem along the way but all said VA doesn't respond to systemic oestrgen. Well  IF I carry on improving ALL of the 12 specialists I have seen will be getting a letter politely suggesting they think outside the box once necessary investigations are done. Doctors are scientists who when qualified many of them just stop thinking.

That's my moan and story. If I really do get properly better I shall start a post for others , to hopefully avoid what I have been through as believe me I have been at the very bottom with this, it's really aged me.

I went to see my GP who is lovely , about starting HRT but didn't know a answer to my question so I decided to go and see Dr A to try and avoid the merry go round of trial and error with HRT that ladies seem to get with GPs and see if I could avoid it going to an expert.

Good luck with your quest.

[dolly64]

Hi purdey
hope wearing the monitor goes well for you,and the going to see a specialist.
I went drs yesterday,had been 2wks since had monitor,results not back as can take a month,well where I live anyway,hope yours is quicker.so nothing started for me yet,dr pleased that I am trying push through the anxiety and have contacted the councellor,also staying on the beta blockers for know as think they helping palpitations.looked up the yoga you do and plan to maybe get dvd or book.keep us posted how you get on.

Hi maryjane
this peri menopause leads us a merry dance doesn't it,the amount of things it can affect.Hope you have now got the right treatment for your problems and that everything improves for you.

dolly64

[Briony]

Hi and welcome,

I am in a similar situation to you - early 40s, still have regular periods, but at times estrogen drops to post menopause levels and other times it's sky high. I get horrible PMT which lasts beyond my period.

I started with 50mcg patches over a year ago, but found - as these top up rather than control your hormones - at times they were making the situation worse. I also hated the feeling I got when the 12 days of Utrogestan stopped, even though I felt fine on it (I agree with DG: dont 'look' for problems with it. Not everyone has issues with this form of progesterone. Take it one day at a time and just see how you feel). The doctors I saw all said at my age I needed something much stronger which would suppress ovulation and  keep me more balanced.

I tried a low dose combined pill (Qlaira) which helped massively. I would go as far as to save it was a life changer. However, I stopped it eventually for two reasons - I was affected by the four different doses across the month, and I started getting stomach issues (since been told I have IBS C). I had a brief experiment with a monophasic conventional pill (which was a disaster from day one and made stomach far, far worse) and therefore started to look into a 'nil by mouth' line of treatment.

At the same time I started reading up on PMT and came across this, which I really recommend you read: (Guidelines from the National Association for Pre Menstrual Syndrome)

http://www.pms.org.uk/assets/files/guidelinesfinal60210.pdf


http://nickpanay.com/Papers%20pdf/Managing%20Premenstrual%20Syndorme%20An%20Overview.pdf


Reading this has convinced me to try 100 mcg - 150 mcg patches (still far less oestrogen than in a synthetic contraceptive pill) which will suppress ovulation and keep me with a more even rate of oestrogen - in theory, at least    .

Unusually, in my case  I would opt for the nearly continuous 100 mg of Utrogestan on days 1-25 to avoid the dip I mentioned, despite still having periods. My GP is happy with this. I'd take this vaginally, as I did before, since I always eat late at night.
I think a number of ladies on here are thinking of trialling a similar approach - mainly younger members still having fairly regular periods who're suffering from extreme fluctuations /PMS rather than more continuously low oestrogen and the different set of 'joys' that can create.

The advice on additional supplements etc is interesting to read too.

Hope what I have said doesnt confuse you ever more - it is very much an alternative hrt/hormonal approach suited to only a small group of ladies, but even just reading the NAPS advice certainly helped for me to see things a different way.

Good luck - hope  things work out for you x



 

[purdey]

Hi Maryjane,
Thanks for sharing your experience, sorry to hear you had such a bad time getting help...good for you for writing to the docs, i'm amazed how little they know, just glad this website exists and other women are willing to share!
That's interesting to know that symptoms don't have to include hot flushes to be peri...it does seem to be the benchmark for misinformed doctors!!

HiDolly64,
glad to her you found the yoga website ok, hope the dvd helps you. Why is your doc waiting on the heart results before giving you HRT ( sorry if you've already said, this threads getting long to keep up) You are doing great to not give in to the anxiety, i know how hard that is! :-)

Hi Briony,
Thanks for sharing and your advise. yes i'm wondering whether the Oestrogen is helping or not....though i feel a bit better yday evening and today since lowering the oestrogen dose to 37.5, don't know if thats a a coincidence or also because i am on day 4 of my period ...( or is it a bleed now after being on Conti, which was the wrong type of HRT?)

Thanks very much for the articles , i shall keep hold of those just incase i need them , very interesting ideas!

Are you saying you're already on the continuous 100mg Utrogestan or are you thinking of going on this regime? I did wonder whether this would suit me better, but i will wait and see how i get on when i start on the 22nd...not good timing with Christmas coming up but hey ho!!

Thanks for all your advise and supper....hope everyone is having a good day/evening :-)
X

[purdey]

Hi all,
Hope everyone is coping.

I've started Utrogestran on 15th day of my cycle....5th day now and i'm not really feeling any relief...how long does it take? My anxiety seems to be worse, its really getting me down have had to take valium last couple of days as cant calm heart rate and that makes me more anxious.

Im thinking to go back on Amitriptylene which i was on for IBS but stopped in January......or can anyone recommend a good anti depressant for anxiety. My doc has suggested Sertraline but one of the side effects is anxiety and im nervous to try them. I want something more sedating
Many thanks x
   

[dolly64]

Hi purdey
sorry to hear you are suffering more anxiety.my cousin takes citalopram for his anxiety and he does well with that,and a friend takes fluoxetine(may of spelt wrong) for mood and anxiety.Hope you can get something to reduce it.I read on here that hrt can cause more anxiety feelings,perhaps after a while it eases off.i must admit that I am debating if I want hrt because of possibly making mine worse,also I get migraines and see that can get worse to.why does everything have to be so hard.
I am still fighting my anxiety feelings,making self go shops,walks ect.Going drs this week get heart monitor results,about flipping time,want to ask for cbt,a coucellor failed to phone me and make appntment,which I intend to complain about.

Hope you get you anxiety sorted soon ,let us know how you get on.
All the best.
dolly64.