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[Chi chi]

I'm wondering is it possible to be intolerant to certain progesterones? I could be clutching at straws but looking back over the years at the different BCP that I've been on I seem to have been ok/better on certain ones? For example

Ovranette - was the first pill at age 16, no problems at all and was on it for years

Dianette - 2nd pill and was put on this for mild spots, again no problems.

Mirena Coil - hit 35 and was advised to have this as I'm a smoker, lots of bleeding but stuck with it for a year and then had it removed.

Cerazette - this followed the mirena, stopped periods completely but had a few spots now and again. Approx a year to a year and a half after starting I had a complete breakdown but I remember beforehand I was snappy, moody, miserable and felt like I was in overdrive but running on empty.

Utrogestan - this made me feel so low and miserable and takes ages to lift, extremely tired and awful headaches too.

Provera - not so low in mood but snappy and headaches not as bad.

Like I said maybe I'm clutching at straws and life events maybe had a part to play but I definitely seemed better on certain pills/progesterones??

[SadLynda]

Cant answer the other, though I too was on Dianette for many years before being changed to Cerazette in my late 30's to date.  I was told by the nurse last week it is possible this is causing some of my 'issues' and I suspect  today they will tell me to stop it, or at least have a break for a while, I am not happy as have enjoyed being pain free and free in general from periods, but I realise it is now important to know were I am up too.  I think I have been moody and miserable for a good 5 years but am hoping they are going to tell me this is peri today.

What does your GP say on the subject?

(never did get rid of the ruddy spots )

[Chi chi]

When I look back my spots really weren't that bad, I used to get like little bumps under the skin around my bottom lip/chin, nothing I couldn't cope with now, I'd gladly go back to them days! 

GP is pretty much useless and won't even entertain the idea that I could be peri-menopausal even though my mum started having problems at my age! He has a special interest in mental health so thinks AD's are the answer to everything hence why I'm on 2  since my breakdown 3 years ago he now thinks all my problems are down to anxiety and depression and not hormonal, I've tried many different AD's in the last few years none of which have helped which made me think it was or could be hormonal, this is why I went private and it was discovered my hormones were low!

I've been on oestrogel and testim gel for just over a year, am meant to take utrogestan each month but just can't face it so that's been a bit hit and miss. Things were good after approx 3 months from starting the gels then after my first Utro month things dipped badly, I've tried varying amounts of oestrogel and even tried implants (bad idea)! But still getting the anxiety and low moods 
I'm thinking of asking to try a BCP as I've been following a couple of ladies on here that are having success with them but as I'm over 35 and a smoker don't know what my chances are? 
Out of all I think the Cerazette was the worst for me, how did you find it?

[Briony]

Apologies if I have sent you this before (meno brain) but this helped me work out which were likely to give various side effects:

http://www.avongpeducation.co.uk/handouts/2012/youngpersons/The%20pill%20ladder.pdf

Looks like you took the POP and also a combined pill that was very progesterone dominant (Ovranette). Maybe try one on the right?

ALos, how long did you take them for? ALl progesterones have given me side effects for first few months, then they have disappeared.


Did you try Utro vaginally? I found it resulted in very few side effects, if any. Proff Studd recommends this for just seven days for women who're very progesterone intolerant.

[Briony]

PS Sorry that was so rushed. Multi tasking and the cat bought a live bird into the room just as I posted!!   

I was 'turned down' for any pill stronger than Qlaira this week as I too am 'high risk'. I have been researching patches and what dose you need to suppress ovulation (ie be a bit more like a pill - though contraception isn't guaranteed). Patches of 200mcg (2x100) have had very good results with hormone related depression and severe PMS.  I found this really interesting:

As premenstrual depression and other cyclical disorders of this syndrome are related to ovulation, it is logical that the mainstay of treatment should be the suppression of ovulation and the removal of the cyclical hormonal changes (whatever they are) which produce the cyclical symptoms of this condition. It is likely that the essential cause of premenstrual depression is the intolerance to endogenous progesterone following ovulation, and it is regrettable that such patients are also progestogen intolerant to any gestogens administered (20), and these progestogenic side effect are both dose and duration dependant (21). Any progestogen used for endometrial protection in these patients should be one that produces the least symptoms given in the lowest effective dose and the least number of days.

It is for this reason that the birth control pill, although suppressing ovulation and cycles, is not so effective because of the daily progestogen for twenty-one days a month. Even taking the birth control pill back-to-back without a break removes all fluctuations, but in some patients the progestogen component remains a problem and the PMS type symptoms become continuous rather than cyclical. The progestogen drosperinone is a less androgenic gestogen contained in the oral contraceptives Yasmin and Yas. These have been claimed to be effective for the treatment of PMS (22) and have been recommended by some to be suitable as first-line therapy (23).

An effective hormone therapy for severe PMS is the use of transdermal oestrogens for suppression of ovulation (24). This can be by gel (2.5-5.0g grams daily), patch (200 mcgs twice weekly) or --in those patients who have already responded well to transdermal oestrogens -- an oestradiol implant of 50 mgs every six-months, which gives long term therapy (25). They should be warned that they may feel less well in the first two weeks -- rather like the mood changes seen in early pregnancy -- and that it may not work for the first month until ovulation has been suppressed. Oral oestrogens may also be effective, but there are no published studies to support this.

The patients will need progestogen to prevent endometrial hyperplasia and irregular bleeding, but because of the progestogen intolerance found in these women, a smaller dose of shorter duration is recommended, usually in the form of 2.5 mgs of Norethisterone or 100 mgs of Utrogestan for the first seven days of each calendar month; this will produce a regular withdrawal bleed on about day ten of each calendar month. Re-setting the periods in this way prevents abnormal bleeding ; instead normal , usually scanty bleeding occurs at a predictable time of the month. Another minor advantage of this regimen is that periods now occur 12 times a year rather than 13.



 
http://www.studd.co.uk/depression.php[/b]

[Chi chi]

Thanks Briony, yeah I've seen the pill ladder and noticed Ovranette is prog dominant  ( levonorgestrel) but I didn't have any problems while on it which makes me question could I just be intolerant to certain progesterones like Desogestrel which Is cerazette (I think this was the worst for me)?? The Mirena is also Levonorgestrel and while I bled most of the time I don't remember feeling low or depressed as I did with cerazette and utrogestan?

[Briony]

In that case, I'd definitely look into taking what GRL takes - it's like Ovranette but with more estrogen. I think (?) Femseven patches have the same estrogen in them too.
 x

[Chi chi]

I also meant to say it is actually Proff Studd that's treating me at the moment, I keep telling him that things aren't improving but he doesn't offer me an alternative except a hysterectomy  he's not said anything about patches or any other kind of treatment 

[Briony]

That's really useful to know as I was considering seeing him. Have you asked him about other treatments? You could always print out his own article  x

[Chi chi]

Hmmm he's not very 'approachable' he comes across as its his way or the highway! That's all well and good as long as his way works for you 
I always have a hard time of getting hold of him and he takes days sometimes over a week to reply to emails! Funny thing is though he replied straight away to my husband when he enquired about testosterone treatment for himself 

My experience with him hasn't really been that helpful or enjoyable and he is very expensive! I'm actually looking into going somewhere else

[Briony]

Annie Evans and Nick Paney are the ones people speak highly of. Studd is miles away for me but was of interest because of his work on high dose patches. In the light of what you - and many others- have said, think I may stick with Annie Evans who's more local.x

[Hurdity]

Just to say I agree with you Estelle - women seem to be amazingly variable in their response to different progesterones - and sometimes in the same one - whether it is taken orally, vaginally or from a patch! There are an unfortunate few who are intolerant to all of them including their own - meaning 2 weeks of unpleasantness and feeling ill each month as well as throughout pregnancy! Many women can find one that they can tolerate at least - even if not feel really good.

Re Annie Evans - I found her to be very helpful, kind, understanding and easy to talk to - I'm not sure what the position is re scans and blood tests and this didn't come as a matter of course, with the appointment, but one can only ask.

Hurdity x

[Chi chi]

I was actually fine throughout both my pregnancies