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[babyjane]

   I was making a general observation from my own perspective, not singling out anyone's posts or threads.  I have just noticed that sometimes in a thread, when a member makes a comment from a non HRT angle, they can get jumped on a bit harshly.  But then the typed word can easily be misunderstood as you cannot gauge the tone and I can be a bit over sensitive at times.

[dazned]

I agree ,when typing something one can't gauge any tones that you get from the spoken word,and sometimes we can be in a low place and take things then wrong way . We are all here because we have either suffered or are still suffering from menopause related issues and either need support or try to support others to the best of our ability. There are lots of other non menopause related topics too which are helpful and informative. The forum is called menopause matters not HRT matters and I think it does cover a wide range of things on all sides. Nothing has exactly the same effect for any of us be it herbal or HRT that is where the discussion comes in and quite rightly so. IMHO 

[peegeetip]

Hi Nemesis

great post and agree with your view there.

Hi Babyjane

not sure where you seem to have been treated harshly? Was it on this post.
I certainly had commented on your quote about "lack of estrogen has never killed anyone".
But that's just back and forth discussion on the forum and a simple point which I disagreed with.
There are many studies out there and articles outlining how many (50000+) they believe have died due to not having estrogen supplemented since all the "scares" started. I hope you can understand why I pointed it out.

Diabetes 2 vs Peri/Meno

I have an older member of my family who is treated by drugs for type 2 diabetes.
They are comfortable without their drugs and won't die of the type two diabetes.
A lot of older people are forced into taking these drugs when other things cause checks to their health to occur.
Its clear though that if they don't take their meds then they open themselves up to long term chronic issues in the longer term and possibly cause life threatening issues.

The very same applies to our peri/meno and hrt. We can ignore the loss of estrogen in the same way and move onto later life with the gusto some espouse. But we will in the same way, open ourselves to chronic issues/life threatening issues in the longer term.

Part of the issue is that no one seems to associate a stigma with diabetes 2 drugs in the same way we have with HRT.
There are dangers to taking diabetes 2 drugs too.

I've never heard anyone spouting forth about the warnings on Diabetes 2 drugs but there are lots happy to do that for HRT, often with invalid or false information to make things worse.

Ultimately we can learn from what this doc and others have put forward or we can continue to ignore it. As others have said the choice is down to ourselves in the end.

 

[GeordieGirl]

I've never heard anyone spouting forth about the warnings on Diabetes 2 drugs but there are lots happy to do that for HRT, often with invalid or false information to make things worse.

Just  for you peegeetip: 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/07/the-risks-of-treating-diabetes-with-drugs-are-far-worse-than-the-disease.aspx

I do get your point though - unfortunately this, alongside the danger of many other pills we're encouraged to pop, isn't publicised widely.

I do find HRT is one of those topics many friends don't broach, not because of the 'dangers' but simply because it's admittance that we've attained that "Getting Old" badge. I don't think many of us really want to accept that at all - in my head I feel 33 and have just as much life and vitality. Why my body thinks otherwise God only knows, but if I can put it back then personally I will.

GG x

[GeordieGirl]

My point?  It is my opinion that HRT can be very helpful but is not the be all and end all nor is it always a cure all.  Each of us must decide based on our own needs.

Can I be honest here - sometimes after a visit to some of the threads that seem interesting (to me) I go away feeling that I ought to go onto HRT, the pro HRT message can be very strong, and yet I know that the decision not to take it is the right one for me.  I do not believe I am letting myself or women in general down by deciding against it.

I very much believe medicine is / should be a personal approach. We're not all the same, and what suits one may be detrimental to another.  I also believe in instinct and what 'feels' right  (hence my alternative approach to my cancer treatment). I amactually taking HRT but the bioidentical / body identical / natural kind (whatever we want to call it) - I'm a firm believer of avoiding synthetic anything.

If you have found something else that works for you, that's great - or indeed not need anything at all- that's fabulous. Stick with it and don't feel any need to justify your choice.

GG X

[Dorothy]

If we could get away from calling peri/meno a "natural" process that would help a lot.

We should really call it a "wearing out" or "Age-associated loss or impairment" which would be much closer to the truth.

Noooooo!  I'm only 40.     I don't want to have an age-associated impairment.  Or be 'worn out'.    (Though I feel it at the moment...where's the nearest scrap heap?)

[peegeetip]

Hi GeordieGirl

yup there are plenty of articles to say that diabetes 2 drugs are just as bad as others we may take.

However, my elderly relative takes the drug without question. Had that been HRT then the story would be different.
Why is that the case? when not taking either can cause longer term chronic conditions?

Hi Dorothy

my point, some of us associate peri/meno with a this positive skip step in life rather than a retrograde / wearing out step.
I don't hear anyone shouting out similar stuff when we should embrace our failing pancreas, thyroid, kidney's, heart, digestion etc as we age and avoid drugs that might help us there.

In most cases we just get on with it and take what we need to make us better or improve our quality of life.

When it comes to HRT there seems to be a huge persuasion to avoid this question or the potential solution and unfortunately the quality of life it provides to so many.

 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Babyjane, my Mum had a surgical menopause at only 42. She only took HRT for roughly 8 months after her hysterectomy. She is now in her mid 70s but is often mistaken for being much younger because her skin is lovely and barely lined.

Yet she had a fall when only 56 and broke her wrist. But it was actually shattered and has never been right since. She also has atrial fibrillation. Both issues have been attributed to her lack of oestrogen from 43 onwards.

I think if someone says they would never take HRT 'just' for theenopause, then that person has never felt so low and distraught that they have woken their poor husband in the middle of the night to tell him they want to kill themselves.

At my lowest points I would have taken HRT even if the risks were multiplied by a factor of 10. At such times the threat of dying from breast cancer in 15 years time was infinitely preferable to waking up the next morning, and the next 100 mornings after that KNOWING that you will feel very strongly tempted to step under a bus just toake the misery stop.

[GypsyRoseLee]

And during my 'bad' days and weeks I was essentially dead anyway. Couldn't bring myself to cuddle my children or even speak to them. I avoided looking at myself in the mirror. I ignored my poor husband and just felt numb inside when I looked at him. Nothing could make me smile.

That's not 'living'. It is just 'existing'. And a very miserable existence it is.

I believe my HRT has finally kicked in. These last 10 days I have felt properly 'alive' for the first time in over 18 months. I am chatting naturally with my children again and actually looking forward to seeing my husband when he comes home. I'm laughing with friends and enjoying my job.

HRT has simply given me my life back. And if that means there's a small chance that I might be more at risk of breast cancer in my 60s and 70s then it's a price I am more than happy to pay.

[Nemesis]

Also the risk of getting breast cancer goes up with age anyway, so the chances of getting it in your 60s and 70s rises with age regardless. I think there is a poster in my GP's that says 75% of breast cancer occurs in the over 70s but couldn't see to read it properly. I suppose that's why everyone is so shocked when a 30 or 40 year old gets it.

It's all a very difficult subject and people have to do what they are comfortable with.

[Briony]

I have to pay for my inhalers and the spacer to use them, and for my epipen

Is the bcp still free ?

Annie xx

Yep, I certainly get Qlaira free - even though I am taking it as hrt rather than for contraceptive reasons. Was pleasantly surprised. I always felt aggrieved that I had to pay double for separate oestrogen and progesterone.  (And don't get me started on the vat on sanitary products issue ....) . If men had ovaries, you can bet we wouldn't suffer half as much as we presently do!

I went on my hysterectomy forum for the first time in 3 years the other day, sadly it's like a ghost town but reading old threads many are on the bcp which really surprised me as it contains progesterone which I'm constantly told womb less women shouldn't have

What symptoms did you have that the pill has helped with ? I'm worried about more hair loss if I switch

Annie xx

Initially, it made hair loss worse, if anything (probably the same). However, after four months, there's a definite improvement. My mood is also steadier than on HRT as I feel the Qlaira is more controlling and I have fewer random fluctuations  (and even more so if you take a synthetic estrogen BCP). I am less tired (but still get random bouts of fatigue) and my  headaches have improved. Not sure if a stronger patch would have had the same effect - who knows - but I have to admit, taking a single daily pill is less hassle than my previous regime. 

[Briony]

Can I be honest here - sometimes after a visit to some of the threads that seem interesting (to me) I go away feeling that I ought to go onto HRT, the pro HRT message can be very strong, and yet I know that the decision not to take it is the right one for me.  I do not believe I am letting myself or women in general down by deciding against it.

Babyjane, hope it was nothing I said? 

I know sometimes I can be a bit pro HRT, but I think it's because, until I came on here, everyone I spoke to and even a number of doctors (plus family) were so anti that I almost felt ashamed - as if I was 'giving in' and should be stronger. I felt lonely and isolated. Joining this forum was a revelation: for once, I did not have to be embarrassed and/or defensive about taking hormones in this way.

That said, if it wasn't for a few members on here, I'd have given in after a few weeks - as a result of such negative publicity, I was literally anticipating side effects from the moment I first took it! - and so I try to encourage people in the same way people did me. The difference HRT has made to my life is massive (and I bitterly regret the many months, years even,  I wasted hiding away, trying this and that alleged cure which really didn't work). I've got some quality of life again and hate the thought that I nearly didn't try it simply because of the way society  - generally (not on here) - judged me.

At present I am trying to discuss Qlaira as openly and honestly as I can, simply because I know how little feedback there is here in the UK since it's so new. I spent hours trawling the internet, often having to translate from French, and hope I can save other people a bit of the hassle.

That said, I fully respect anyone who chooses not to HRT, whether for medical reasons or personal preference - and am always really interested to hear of any alternative medications, treatments or therapies that help. With such a wealth of experience and knowledge amongst members, it's crucial we all do share our stories and educate each other - but equally crucial we do it in an open-minded, supportive and non-judgemental manner. Life's tough enough for us ladies without us becoming an additional stress to each other!

 

[babyjane]

No no no, it was a general observation and a feeling I get sometimes reading threads.  It was not aimed at anyone in particular, I'm sorry if it read that way. I will edit my post so it does not lead to misunderstanding 

[Briony]

A bunch of menopausal women together in one  (cyber) room ... can you think of a more paranoid, anxious, sensitive, touchy, moody audience?!!  x   

[Dorothy]

A bunch of menopausal women together in one  (cyber) room ... can you think of a more paranoid, anxious, sensitive, touchy, moody audience?!!  x   

Paranoid?  Moody?  Argh!  HOW CAN YOU BE SO RUDE TO ME?!!!!!! 

(   Well, you did ask for it!)