Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Annie0710]

Hi ladies

I just rang docs as I've not heard a dickie bird since my blood test a week ago

Oestradiol 774 (been taking Max dose oestrogen for 16 years)
FSH. 41.2
LH 35.4
Progesterone 1.1

Receptionist is getting a gp I've not seen or spoken to before to call me to chat about it as I said I need some indication on how long I can expect to feel so rubbish for as it's 3 years now since I went from a healthy young woman to a poorly old lady and always being told there's nothing they can do

[Dancinggirl]

Annie0710
Just a few of my thoughts:
774 is quite a high level for oestrogen and though high oestrogen is usually associated with feeling good, I've always found a high level doesn't suit me. I am assuming you are on just oestrogen following a hysterectomy? Maybe it's worth dropping the oestrogen dose to see if you feel better?
Have they tested thyroid and vitamin D? Most of us will be Vitamin D deficient at this time of year and this can lead to fatigue, aching joints etc.
DG x

[Annie0710]

Yes oestrogen only Dancinggirl

Won't decreasing oestrogen make my skin even saggier than it already has become during this ? And my hair thinning ? Would reducing it make it even thinner ?

My main concerns (although the list is endless) is:

Light headed
This horrible double vision/ and numerous vision changes throughout the day
Tinnitus
Crashing fatigue
Loss of libido
Nausea

[Dancinggirl]

I'm certainly no expert but a little less oestrogen won't have that much effect on your skin and hair. The saggier skin happens as we get older and if you have stopped going to the gym you may have lost muscle structure which would leave looser skin that doesn't spring back as it used to do when we were younger.
Loss of libido can be down to many things and some women swear by Testosterone to help with this but it isn't a treatment given by the NHS - you need to go privately to get testosterone.
I certainly feel light headed when I'm on high oestrogen and in fact feel agitated and sweaty but that could just be my reaction. Thinning hair, and fatigue could be to do with thyroid I believe?!
How are you using your oestrogen? Are you using Oestrogel, patches or pills.  DG x

[Annie0710]

Orally, they tried me (week of Easter) with patches but within hours I had a 4 day migraine start, they told be to remove it immediately . I was a mess, so took a break from it, within a week I had to take my pill again

[Dancinggirl]

This really makes me think you should try a lower dose.  When I tried patches I got agitated and headachy and really felt I was getting too high a dose. When HRT is used transdermally by patch the dose should be less because when hormones are taken orally some is lost as it goes through the liver. This is why many of us prefer using patches or gel as you need to use less.  The patch may simply have been too strong. Perhaps try Oestrogel and start with just one pump per day and see how you feel. We often talk about the 'sweet spot' in terms of finding the right amount of hormone to use.  The gel allows you to adjust the amount you use.  I'm 59 and 5 months ago went back on HRT - lack of sleep and vaginal atrophy was a real problem.  I still have a uterus so need to use progesterone as well which isn't great but I've used Oestrogel for many years as I had a premature meno in my mid 30s. My gynae wanted me to use 2 pumps per day so I did start with this but I've now reduced it down to one pump per day and this seems to work for me - I feel better on one pump than I did on 2 pumps per day.
What strength of pills are you on?  2mg?
We are all different and I'm not suggesting that hormones are causing your problems but perhaps some adjusting may help you gage what is going on better.   DG x

[dazned]

Maybe Hurdity will be along later,I seem to remember her,or could have been someone else , saying something about too high a dose can cause something like negative feedback after a long time which causes more problems then the original reason for use. Its quite complex but hopefully she or someone else can explain it better than me.

[Annie0710]

Thank you ladies, I really do value your input
I'd never thought about reducing oestrogen,

When my ovaries failed within months of my hysterectomy aged 32, I was given 1mg, which got me back to normal, with weeks is slumped again with the symptoms back so they increased to 2mg, and I've been on that ever since

I'm open to more suggestions or personal experiences of reducing oestrogen

I really need to feel well again :-(

[BrightLight]

I am not on HRT Annie but I think the ratio is an important factor to feeling well - there is quite a big ratio difference in your results.  The skin, hair etc isn't just down to estrogen alone, it's the balance I think.

[Kathleen]

Hello Annie0710.

I am using a 50 mcg conti patch and although I will continue with this regime for the full three months I have been wondering if the oestrogen dose is too high.

I sympathise with your frustration and I hope the Doctor can offer the help you need.

Take care.

K. 

[Annie0710]

Thank you ladies, well docs didn't call me so wondered whether to try missing alternate days with my 2mg tablet , not sure if it works like that 2mg one day, none the next etc to bring levels down although years ago when my level was in the 100s I remember my gp saying that the range went up to 700

[Hurdity]

Hi Annie0710

I agree with Dancinggirl that that level of oestrogen is high to experience all the time.

This is the reference range:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=570818627

The upper end of the range would be not dropping below 500 throuhgout the cycle, which is quite high. Many women would only expect to reach this level near and during the spike which occurs just before ovulation. The condition dazned was referring to is tachypylaxis (and should not apply to levels of 700 pmol/l) and can happen when women have implants and experience oestrogen levels at what is known as "Supra-physiological " levels ie higher than would occur naturally during menstrual cycle in our bodies.

My initial thoughts on your migraine after starting a patch - because it started so soon after starting the patch - was that it could have been due to the sudden drop in oestrogen rather than too much. It takes 12 hours for the oestrogen level to reach a maximum after applying a patch whereas I believe ( haven't checked this) the spike in oestrogen from taking a tablet occurs sooner than this. Therefore your body was "expecting" more oestrogen but didn't get it straight away.

If you have experienced migraines before you will know that once one has been set off, whatever the trigger, it will run its course even if whatever caused it is no longer there - so maybe the 4 days migraine was due to the initial drop in oestrogen.

You didn't mention the dose of patch either - personally a transdermal method should give you a more consistent dose and depending on your age it might be worth trying again. The metabolic byproducts and their excretion from tablet HRT will surely also have an impact and especially at high doses. Changing from one to the other will certainly have an impact but this should settle. If oestrogen itself caused a migraine you would get one on tablet HRT and for migraine sufferers transdermal HRT is recommended. This supports my theory that it was the sudden change in oestrogen caused by the changing delivery method that caused your migraine.

However I agree they could do with coming down a little perhaps - depending on your age?

Oestrogen will not give you crashing fatigue and levels that high should mean you still have a reasonable libido though as Dancinggirl says testosterone is involved too.

I would definitely ask for other tests eg thyroid as suggested and preferably testosterone as well although this isn't generally available on NHS. Perhpas if you have had ovaries removed you may be able to ask for this test?

Kathleen - I can't remember if you are post-menopausal but 50 mcg is definitley not too high a dose. if you are post-meno this should be the level at which your main symptomns are controlled and you feel well, but not elated! It is also the minimum patch dose licensed for prevention of osteoporosis (although some protection is given even at small doses).

Sorry if this is a bit garbled - thinking aloud!

Hurdity x

[Annie0710]

Hi Hurdity, thank you

I am 48 and have been on 2mg elleste solo since age 32/33

When they gave me the patch (elleste solo mx 80 ) I wasn't given any instructions verbally so took my tablet as usual on the Monday evening and got my patches Tuesday tea time so put one on, by bedtime I had a strange headache on top of my head, took pain killers and went to bed, next morning woke up with horrible headache and nausea, I was eventually sick on the Friday late afternoon and the headache went within half hour.   I removed the patch Thursday morning after telling doc about my headache. I didn't resume my tablets until I think the tues or wed after because on the Monday all my symptoms started again (meno)

Incidentally, the Friday(after I was sick)  and Saturday and Sunday I felt the best I have felt in 3 years

Do you think I should've gone a day or 2 with NO oestrogen before putting on the patch ?
My thoughts were I overloaded on oestrogen

Hurdity, will I suffer any worse symptoms rede icing my oestrogen , at 48 I am aware I am getting older but my skin is really wrinkling, much quicker than I can handle, obviously I've noticed aging and coped with each stage but this was so sudden, and my fine hair is just getting thinner and I can't style it

today I'm noticing how itchy I am, I keep scratching my abdomen legs , scalp , knuckles and ongoing is my vulva.  I have increased my vagifem to every other day starting today because although I am happy with how it's working (3 or 4 weeks now) and no UTI and it feels more plump and not saggy I don't like the discomfort of outside

Think I've covered everything , I will ask re:testosterone but don't hold out much hope of a test or supplement
Your knowledge amazes me

[lancashirelass]

Sorry disagree depends on how old this lady is and.if.she has suffered with pms or similar in the.past or low.mood.prof studd says on his website higher levels.often needed then.  Are you using testosterone at all?

[Annie0710]

Sorry disagree depends on how old this lady is and.if.she has suffered with pms or similar in the.past or low.mood.prof studd says on his website higher levels.often needed then.  Are you using testosterone at all?

I'm 48 and never had pms or low mood
I've only suffered hormonally these past 3 years (apart from 16 years ago when my ovaries failed post hysterectomy and my 2mg oestrogen sorted it )