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[Sunnydays]

Hi ladies
I'd love to hear if any of you have had a long term success with phytooestrogens? I've read up about it on the MM webiste and I know there's not much research etc but I'm thinking of it as an option, alongside good diet, exercise and so on, if hrt doesn't suit.
Thank you )

[starfish]

Hi,
I take promensil double strength (80 mg red clover isoflavones) and feel that I get on well with it. It's pretty much controlled my hot flushes for about a year, or at least that's my feeling - I realise hormones and symptoms fluctuate during perimenopause anyway. If it's a placebo then it's a good one! I have noticed on the occasions when I've run out of it, my previously frequent but not hideous flushes returned, then gradually lessened when I started back on the red clover. I've had a few when on it, always evenings. So my experience is that it really helps, at least it helps me at this stage of the process. I'm late 40s with high FSH and LH readings, for what that's worth. I do still have anxiety, especially when a period is on its irregular way, and a few palpitations, though the bisoprolol has eased these along with stress management. I take quite a lot of vitamin and mineral supplements and have found a combination of these and the red clover seem to be best for me.

Hope you get on well with them if you try them.

Starfish x

[Dana]

I personally never had any luck at all, and I saw a naturopath for 3 months, and it actually made everything worse for me. There are some anecdotal indications that they may help with minor symptoms in the early stages of meno/peri, but once your hormones have done a nose dive, and you're getting more intense symptoms, you really need the help of the big guns (ie hormones).

[GypsyRoseLee]

I started taking Promensil double strength Red Clover 80mg nearly 3 months ago. At first I genuinely thought it was working. My mood started to improve, my anxiety faded. I've never suffered with hot flashes, so can't report on that.

But I now realise that actually my starting taking them just happened to coincide with my body deciding to produce an 'old fashioned' monthly cycle, like I had a couple of years ago before all this peri-menopause nastiness started. So I enjoyed 4-5 weeks of feeling perfectly 'normal'. Got 'normal' achy boobs. Got 'normal' bloating. Had a 'normal' bleed lasting 6 days (rather than 3). It was (bizarrely) rather nice as recently all my periods have been scant and spotty. Boobs not remotely affected and basically felt rather withered up and dried up.

So I thought I had found the magic elixir. But no, I was wrong. This month I was back to my scant and spotty period. And within 24 hours of it arriving, despite all the Red Clover, my mood took a severe nose dive. Had 12 days of feeling horribly flat and low. Anxiety came back with a vengeance. Endured the worst run of insomnia so far 

So, I have to agree with Dana on this. I think if your peri symptoms are very, very slight than phytoestrogens might help. But once your hormones really start to bugger about and dip then some friendly little herbs really aren't going to make a scrap of difference, and certainly not in the tiny concentrations that they're only allowed to be marketed in. But to be honest I think I could have drank a vat of Red Clover extract and it wouldn't have made a difference.

There's hormonal mild anxiety/low mood, where you perhaps worry slightly more than usual and sometimes feel a bit flat. Some herbs and a chamomile tea might help.

Then there's the level of hormonal anxiety/low mood that I experienced where you now completely understand why some people resort to suicide. And for that you need the big guns.