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[Hattie]

To me this thread being moved to This n' That speaks volumes.

[Jenna]

From Hurdity's post yesterday  ......."of course we are not permitted to give commercial links or to be seen to promote a product and that includes identifying a particular product, the company that sells it and the web address - which is what led to the present posting issues."

Please could we have some clarification on this - exactly what products can or can't we name? After all, as rosebud says, brand names of HRT are mentioned all the time. How can we attempt to help others if we can't name products that have worked for us? I am really confused by all this and from what other members have said in previous posts, I suspect they are too.

[Joyce]

As I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong anyone, nothing wrong with naming products. It's if you add a link to a site which sells products directly.

We should all be able to discuss HRT, alternatives or anything else without prejudice. We are supposed to be a support group, offering help to others in the same position as ourselves. Yes, some topics can get heated due to opposing opinions, but that's OK so long as we remember they are opinions. We are all so very different, with varying symptoms. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other.

[BrightLight]

Can I ask how this forum is managed? I don't see moderators posting? Am I missing something? Usually a moderator 'guides' content

[Winterose]

Have thought about this some more and actually if we have an alternatives area it will probably still end up with heated discussion as newbies come along and try the alternatives and then discover for some of them they dont work and its cost a lot of money and we will be back to square one, now I saw one yesterday from comments on Guardian article, Pueria Micrifica Root - wonder what on earth that is?

  Silver lady i think you should just come back as lots of us appreciated your research and comments,

[thorntrees]

Well said Cubagirl!, I couldn't have put it better myself. The support and feeling you are not alone with what is happening to us is the important aspect of MM. Life can be stressful enough without antagonising each other over differences of opinion.

Thorntrees

[Hurdity]

Your posts have in the past been helpful and informative and appreciated by many but they don't leave much room for other debate.

Mostly everyone seems to agree with this, so perhaps it's not such a strange concept.

Oh honeybun - I don't know what I've done to offend or upset you  but to presume to speak on behalf of most of the forum that my posts don't leave room for other debate is a personal attack on my posting style and its content and you don't have the right to do that. No-one has the right to single someone out in this way.

Someone said to me recently:

"All that is needed is kindness and respect. You don't have to agree to live in harmony"

That speaks volumes.

There is no point in going over the same ground and anyone who reads my posts I hope will know that I (try to) never ever make personal attacks on an individual - even while disagreeing with what they say, or providing information that I find.

Please think about the things you are saying and have said or implied  - I didn't want to draw attention to myself, nor have an undignified argument but to continue this relentless personal criticism in public is deeply upsetting,   so I think it's time to call it a day don't you?

Absoutely thorntrees.

Hurdity

[honeybun]

Hurdity....why are you taking this so personally. That was never the intention.

Lots of women have supported the initial idea but you seem to think that I am targeting you. I have neither been upset nor offended by anything you have ever done. When I started this topic....please don't take offence.....you never entered my mind at all....and i don't mean that in a bad way.

My initial post says.....


Given the fact that alternative thoughts and opinions seem to cause discord on the forum it would be really helpful to have a dedicated topic.

We have This and That....All things Menopause.....so

How many ladies would like to have a dedicated Alternatives section.

Could we have supportive posts please as if it's not your thing then it would have no impact as you could just avoid.

It could cover all sorts .....including supplements, herbal etc.

I am on HRT myself but have a real interest in natural ways too for all sorts.

It would make members, who have more of an interest in this side of things, feel more confident in posting questions.

I think it would bring something really positive to the forum.


Show of hands ladies.....then we can approach Dr Currie if we have enough support for this.

Where exactly in that post is any reason to think that people's views are not being respected?



You surely can't disagree that alternatives discussion have caused upset and argument in the past and over the years people have left.

Please stop taking offence over this because it would not effect anyone who did not want to take part in that section of the forum.

To the best of my ability over my years on the forum I have always tried to treat people with kindness and respect. Perhaps I have not been as successful at that as I previously thought.


Honeyb

[honeybun]

Which was I was asking in the first place.

A yes or no would have done fine instead of all this 


Honeyb
X

[Joyce]

Wonder if it would be possible to set it up like a survey HB. Like would you be in favour of an Alternatives section? Yes or No.  It would maybe need Emma to do that mind you because if you're anything like me these technical things are gobbledygook. 

You took the bull by the horns by bringing up the subject HB, so good on you for taking the initiative. If you don't ask you don't get.  Well that's my motto anyway. 

[littleminnie]

This is hard work, I bet you're sorry you started this HB.
Count me in.

[cherylks]

I would be very interested in the dedicated alternatives topic.  Am not on HRT, may or may not ever go on it, but regardless would be keen to hear about alternatives that have worked for others.  So count me in too.

[honeybun]

Unfortunately....the only response I have had up until now is from Emma who says she is too busy at the moment.

Guess we have to wait and see if Dr Currie has time to consider our request.

I'm sure they will be fair and even handed with the decision and let all of us know the reasons why....positive or not.


Hope we don't have to wait too long even though they are busy people.


Honeyb
X

[Hurdity]

Hey girls – there has been so much interest in a dedicated topic about alternatives and I did suggest at the beginning of honeybun's request that we needn't wait for moderators to decide on this, and that anyone could start a thread on it and if it proved popular it would always stay near the top, just as “How are you today” does, or be bumped like CLKD's “My Bladder” thread. No-one seems to have done that, so I thought I would start one – it's over here:

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27099.0.html

There you go! 

Hurdity x

[BrightLight]

)'the website is run by a leading NHS gynaecologist - Dr Currie'
    Yes, but Dr Currie herself is an advocate of HRT, and the website is sponsored by two pharm companies.

I think the forum does work pretty well as it is,
      Not so sure about this as there would not be this debate going on.

 any attempt to stifle debate can only have a negative effect and lead to conflict.
    But this is exactly what happens when alternatives are mentioned.  If a brand name or website is named for
    an alternative it's wrong.  However brand names of HRT are used all the time.  Don't forget every time your
    GP writes a script for HRT a Pharma company makes a profit.

 Let's try not to dictate who says what and where on this forum
    Well exactly, that is what Honeybuns post is all about.

Also don't forget that as far as 'proof' for the effectiveness of alternatives is concerned. 'ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE'.  Pharma companies are often guilty of 'corporate crime' due to negligence in their research.  In fact they have the need to pay fines for this included in their profit margins.  I know this as I am an criminology student and have recently covered this in a module.

The above points are some of the more negative things that have been bubbling under the surface for me in the last few days - I find the focus and intention of this site quite confusing, I don't really understand why it isn't clearer on it's principles.  It took me ages to work out that the focus is on scientific, medical, mainstream treatment for menopausal symptoms.  That's all fine, but part of me thinks, why have all the other stuff on the menus? 

Ultimately it's made me think about what is provided for women in general around the menopause and I think it should be more than just the period of time where symptoms are apparent and overwhelming, thus prescribing HRT.  I can't really work out whether the medical profession wants to use HRT as a preventative as well as symptom control - either way I find it a bit depressing that there isn't more interest from the mainstream arenas on the issues and changes we face before during and after menopause.

For me the suggestion of this thread is a good start in widening the focus to include women and solutions that they find themselves (because let's face it there IS no conventional support or trials or research).  Mainstream medicine acknowledges the need to trial CAM's (Complementary and alternative medicines) precisely because over the years women have been trialling and searching for their own solutions.  In Australia the majority of women do not use HRT because there is more support within mainstream medicine for all manner of solutions.

I know I am being controversial here and this thread was for a Yes or No for HoneyBun, but there is nowhere else for me to write this really - sorry  HoneyBun x