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[GypsyRoseLee]

Well I'm posting from on holiday. I started on the higher dose patch of 50mg just over 3 weeks ago and I didn't take any Utro hardly because I wanted to avoid the withdrawal bleed whilst away.

Thankfully I felt fine on the higher dose. Didn't experience any anxieties or low mood prior to the holiday. I did still get a light withdrawal bleed just before we left which I assume was my own hormones causing that as it arrived exactly when it should. But I was fine.

The first 5 days of the holiday have been great. Mood stable. Good sleep. Then boom, on Sunday night my mood really dipped. Hardly slept and anxiety rushed back in. Have been jittery and very up and down since then.

And this just seems to be my bloody pattern. HRT or no HRT. 2.5 to 3 weeks of feeling absolutely fine and normal and positive. Followed by a huge mood dip and random anxiety for 5-6 days.

This was happening to me before I started HRT and it doesn't seem to me that HRT is strong enough to control my own cycle yet.

The fact that despite only taking 3 days worth of Utro last month and yet my bleed still arrived dead in time and for the usual duration makes me think my own hormones and cycle ate still dominant.

I'm now on day 13 of this cycle, having only worn the Estradot 50mg patch for over 3 weeks and yet I'm still having the huge mood dip and anxiety bout anyway?

I will start the 200mg of Utro on day 15-26 and get myself back on track. But I'm not holding out much hope. I think I'm going to experience this same misetable pattern of 2-ish good weeks followed by several days of crap regardless of any HRT.

I haven't really suffered with any of the physical issues of peri menopause ever. No hot sweats. No issues 'down below'. No extra hairiness. Nothing. All I'm suffering with is this cyclical anxiety and extreme mood dips.

Maybe HRT just isn't designed to tackle these psychological symptoms, as well as it is designed to tackle the physical ones?

My GP did mention I could maybe switch to the Pill as this would completely knock out my 'natural' cycle? But I don't know if this would help? I'm pretty sure my own hormones are incredibly volatile right now and HRT isn't able to control them enough right now.

But don't know if the Pill would be stronger?

Sorry for such a ramble. But I feel very confused right now. I know this mood dip and anxiety will pass in.a few more days but it is Hell right now and has spoilt the last few days if the holiday. And that's with only wearing an oestrogen patch so it 'should' have been fine. But it wasn't and I don't know where to go from here???

[GypsyRoseLee]

Oh and forgot to add. Since being on the higher 50mg patch my libido seems to have completely disappeared? There's just nothing there at all. Not even during the 'good' first half of my cycle.

Don't know if that is significant? But pre HRT and then when I was only on the 25mg patch I still had some libido occasionally. Certainly quite strong during first half if my cycle.

[dogdoc]

Gypsy you sound like me. I"m experimenting with HRT as well for the last 6 months.

So far I've found that ON HRT i get extreme anxiety, jittery, vibrating, freezing cold, and other stuff in the lead up to when I should ovulate. I assume at this point my estrogen is TOO HIGH ( i'm still making estrogen and my own estrogen + HRT= too much). Off HRT the week before ovulation is my best month ( my own estrogen is onboard).

OFF HRT the week after ovulation and until I'm half way through my period my symptoms SUCK (weepy, anxious, insomnia, mood changes). Additional estrogen helps at this point.

So if you are like me, and still making a fair bit of your own estrogen, you may not need estrogen the entire month ( particularly not from mid bleed to ovulation)but may need estrogen in the second half from ovulation to bleed ( when estrogen is taking a sharp dip).

I'm experimenting with this idea now. I'll let you know how it goes. Doctor was onboard with it.

[GypsyRoseLee]

That is so interesting dogdoc. I have been wondering along the same lines?

Pre HRT the 10 - 12 days from the end of my period to ovulation was the best time of the month for me. Felt positive. Bright. Energised. Good libido. Then after ovulation it all went rapidly downhill with a slight improvement around day 20 for a few days.

On the 25mg HRT patch the first half of cycle still felt 'good'. I felt very loving toward my husband. I felt very cheerful to the point of giggling (which I had forgotten how to do). Second half of cycle not as good, but okay, then mood seriously dipped during withdrawal bleed and felt dreadful.

Since being on 50mg patch I haven't experienced those feelings of inner lightness. Certainly haven't felt giggly. Don't feel loving toward my husband at all. To be honest I haven't felt much emotion about anything at all? I am currently on holiday on a paradise island but have felt little happiness or pleasure about it. Have mainly felt rather numb. And no libido.

But I didn't get the nasty mood dip during my withdrawal bleed. But am getting it now mid cycle, when I'm ovulating? So maybe too much oestrogen in my system?

I must be still making quite a bit of my own oestrogen as I never have a problem with vaiginal dryness and I have never had a hot flush.

I know ADs are prescribed for just 10-12 days per month for extreme PMS? Was wondering if I could just wear a patch for 10-12 days per month? But then would you still take separate prog'?

[dogdoc]

I would and I am. The progestetone has regulated my cycle back to every 28 days with way less bleeding. If you read a fair number of articles ( journal articles) it seems that early in petimenopause we make more estrogen than when we were cycling normally. It's our brain trying desperately to get us to pop out a good egg. So we start developing more follicles at one ( high FSH) = more estrogen initially. Then as we get closer to actual menopause the estrogen starts to drop off all month long causing vaginal dryness and hot flashes ( I think this is where I am now). But I'm still definitely producing my own at least part of the month.

The dip after ovulation is a 'crash' of estrogen. Means last two weeks before period = shitsville

I think the high estrogen at the beginning of perimenopause coupled with anovulatory cycles = the major heavy bleeding and flooding a lot of us get to experience. No ovulation = no progestetone= lining too thick = hemorrhage   

[Briony]

The pill will definitely control your hormones more than HRT. That's why I had to swap from Evorel 50. Doc said, for younger women, you need something that overrides your hormones, rather than just topping them up. I have sent you a longer reply on your other post. Do read Pixiegirl's post as I think she too had similar symptoms. My anxiety has definitely improved on Qlaira. Only down side is occasional spotting and initial side effects of tiredness and itching xx

[Taz2]

HRT always dampens my libido 

The symptoms you describe Gypsy are just what always happened to me throughout my fertile years. I just assumed it was normal to only have around 10 good days a month. Did you used to get PMT? I've found that HRT is good for controlling hot flushes/sweats and for improving my sleep (usually get around five hours a night now which is great to what it was) but has never helped with low mood or anxiety.

Taz x

[Dorothy]

Bear in mind the Pill doesn't always override your natural cycle either.  I've been on it for 10 years, mostly having the normal break; I get cramping & pmt symptoms at various times but only bleed on the break.  But whenever the doc has advised me to run more than one pack together, I end up bleeding at some point during the second pack. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you Briony. I will go and read r longer post on the other thread 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Taz. Yes I always suffered with PMT since being in my early teens. I also suffered with it whilst on the Pil, and would alwasy feel low and moody,l but only for a few days prior to my bleed and it would always disappear as soon as bleed arrived.

So far I have never suffered with any real physical symptoms such as hot flushes, or vaginal dryness, or headaches. Nothing. Basically it's just that my PMS has gone into the stratosphere and I now get anxiety, which I never had before.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Dorothy - yes when I used to run two packs together I would generally get a bit of spotting and cramping anyway.

[GypsyRoseLee]

That's really food for thought dogdoc.

I don't like to think that I might well be losing my 'good' two weeks per month because the HRT is providing me with too much oestrogen during those two weeks?

I think I must still have plenty of my oestrogen on board, because I have never had any vaginal dryness, or anything like that?

[Briony]

That's really food for thought dogdoc.

I don't like to think that I might well be losing my 'good' two weeks per month because the HRT is providing me with too much oestrogen during those two weeks?

I think I must still have plenty of my oestrogen on board, because I have never had any vaginal dryness, or anything like that?

Dryness etc doesn't have to come with low estrogen. Mine was measured as 41pmol yet I had no flushes, dry vagina, or any of the other usual symptoms. Just weird ones - hence reason it took so long to diagnose!

The amount of PMT on the pill is to some degree affected my its individual contents. Qlaira is bio identical and four phase, with only two no -oestrogen days (unlike other pills) so the mood dips and weepiness I used to get on the pill in my teens has not occurred this time. Like I said before, it's by no means perfect but so many people (who don't know I've switched to it) have commented on how much more like my old self I am, that I am definitely going to try to stick with this. 
Hope that won't be famous last words! x

[GypsyRoseLee]

So pleased it's working well for you Briony. And it's so reassuring to know that there is another alternative to HRT.

Can I ask, were you suffering with insomnia prior to HRT, and has Qlaira cured that?

[Briony]

In the early days, I did, but that was through worrying about what was wrong with me. Then I started getting ridiculous tiredness. I'd sleep, but wake feeling like I hadn't and, at times, needed to doze during the day.  The Qlaira seems to have normalised things, if anything. Taking progesterone (Utrogestan) previously made me very tired so I took it before bed. I suspect the progesterone in Qlaira has a similar effect, but it's not as pronounced. x