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Author Topic: Wishing I wasn't here!  (Read 34971 times)

Dancinggirl

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2014, 02:33:05 PM »

Hi SuzyQ
Try to be patient with the Oestrogel - I used it for many years and it was great because I could adjust the amount to keep symptoms at bay. I'm a bit confused about what you have been given! - Are you using Oestrogel and a patch? This could be a very big dose if combined together!  I suspect you are meant to use Oestrogel or the Patch - not both. I found I got dizziness and felt very strange if I took too much oestrogen! I was on one pump of Oestrogel for some years in early peri meno and then increased to 2 pumps when I was clearly into full meno.  Some ladies need as much as 4 pumps per day.
If you are peri your hormones will still be fluctuating and even after your periods have stopped if takes a few months to a year for the oestrogen level to bottom out.  2 Pumps per day is still quite a low dose if you are peri and the other ladies are right about it taking a little time to build up in your system.
I used to use 2 pumps daily in the morning and applied it to my inner thighs - make sure you let it dry before getting dressed as well (about 5-10mins).  If after 4 weeks you are still getting bad symptoms then increase by half a pump per day for the next 3-4 weeks.
Many ladies love the patches but I'm not convinced they give a more even dose - when I tried them I seemed to get a big surge in the first day which made me feel dizzy and then it tailed off quite quickly over the next couple of days.  As we keep commenting on this site - "we are all different".  If you are using Utrogestan you will probably be fine regarding protecting your uterus.
You have had a bad time of it and I think you need to relax not expect HRT to fix everything straight away.  Good luck  DG x
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jakavi

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Falling into an abyss overnight!
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2014, 03:32:14 PM »

. Hi everyone and very happy to have other to commiserate with. I'm 56 and started to have hot flashes about a year ago but manageable. Started oestrogel and 100mgs of micronized progesterone for 15 days a month in July. It took awhile to kick in as my gyn in France is conservative and told me to use a pea size drop of the gel. Helped a bit but then I increased to one pump per day and then, one and a half every other day. That helped, but I had sore breasts and some bleeding so went back to the silly pea size pump. Anyway…I decided to go with one full pump now per day since January and STILL have miserable soaking hot flashes at night. I also have just been diagnosed with a frozen shoulder, and since Christmas have felt so low and depressed and in a thick and uncomfortable brain fog that I can't escape. Sleeping is really a problem between the pain of the shoulder and the sweats so all is compounded. Can anyone give me some clues about the best way to increase the gel effectively? I use it on my inner thigh. Should I switch thighs each night? What about using Utrogestan 200mgs instead of 100mgs? Guess that would protect my uterus a bit better. This is all so overwhelming. I know it's natural and everyone goes through it, but it really does seem so brutal! HELP
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Cassie

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2014, 04:18:01 PM »

In my humble opinion, a pea size dose of gel is not enough to relieve the symptoms. I would go up to one and a half plunges of the pump, I use one full plunge, then just a little curl of the next pump, I alternate legs, doesnt matter where you rub it on the legs, sometimes the buttocks, ocassionally the inner arm, stay away from breast area, but I just use the legs, it is taken up on the hair follicles as well and remember, it takes a while to build up in your system to a circulating level of oestrogen, which will relieve your symptoms and offer bone and heart protection, so I would up the dose and after a month, if you still feeling lousy, go up to 2 plunges which is the recommended dose. Utrogestan 100mg for 15 days should offer adequate protection of your uterus if you are not using more than 2 plunges per day, I found the 200mg very heavy, it gave me terrible tinnitus as well, but what I recommend is, that if you are not using the standard dose of progesterone, which is either 200mg for 12 days of the month, or 100mg for  25 days of the month, that you just have a uterine scan every 12 to 18 months which gives you a very good indication as to whether the Utrogestan is doing its trick and keeping the lining nice and thin, remember to go for the scan just after a bleed which is when, your Dr will get the most accurate reading. All the best, the gel, if used properly is great but you are using too little to help you feel good :) with all due respect to your Dr and you should use the gel every day that is why you are getting a bleed cos you are not using it consistently. I miss one day and boy I breakthrough bleed, so annoying but your body needs a constant uptake of the hormone.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:20:04 PM by Cassie »
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2014, 04:36:56 PM »

I agree with Cassie.  Use at least 1 pump per day and possibly increase to 2 pumps a day.
Try 1 full pump per day for 4 weeks and if symptoms have not subsided increase by half a pump  to one and half pumps for the next 4 weeks and so on till you feel you have the right symptom relief.  AS the oestrogen  builds up you may find one pump will be enough but I always used 2 pumps per day. You may need to use Utrogestan for 25 days per month if you up the Oestrogel dosage OR use 200mg for 12 days per month and have a withdrawal bleed.  Some women prefer to have a bleed each month.  Good luck  DG x
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Hurdity

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2014, 05:26:14 PM »

Hi Suzyq  Don't be alarmed by symptoms you get after stopping the prometrium - maybe dizziness, or headache, tension, foggy head etc. I always get this - normally starting the morning after the night I have stopped the dose if you see what I mean. It is a physiological response which contributes to "normal" pmt and is sometimes referred to as progesterone withdrawal. After a few days when the progesterone levels have fallen  I always feel OK again and sometime around then I get my bleed.

jakavi
 :welcomemm:

You definitely do not need 200 mg utrogestan to protect the uterus lining from build up of oestrogen in a tiny pea sized blob of gel! Great advice from Cassie re regular scans - this is the only way to really tell if you are having sufficient progesterone to protect the lining, if you deviate from the licensed dose.

Hurdity x
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2014, 08:56:46 PM »

Thanks dg and hurdity. I tried to find papers where it said that the estrogen builds up over time but couldn't! I'm not on the patches only the gel, so don't worry I'm not overdosing. The patches only lasted half a day - he gave me very strong ones and I decided for the meantime to stick with the gel and try to get consistency with that. I am now using 2 pumps in morning and an extra half after lunch to try to stop the blips mid-afternoon.  I will definitely stick it out and am getting hormones checked in February but I suspect I need a little bit more. Will give it 4 weeks dosing as I am before changing. Last night was the last dose of progesterone, so not looking forward to that as I know I feel terrible without it, but hopefully only for a few days, if I have a bleed! 

Again a big thank you was so down yesterday but more optimistic today ...
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 08:38:02 PM »

Ok so have been on estrogel qnd progesterone for 5 weeks now and after a couple of adjustments along the way, am now on 2 pumps of estrogel in morning and a further half after about 6 hours. Hot flushes, if you can call them that (for me it was bp spikes, head rushes, spinning vertigo) have gone for the moment. Anxiety vastly improved - only at about 10per cent now versus a solid 80% before. Having some symptoms after stopping progesterone part (terrible yesterday but less bad today) and bloating which I got during progesterone part seems to be going away (thank god cos I was looking a little bit like Michelin man). No bleed as yet but only 2 days since progesterone stopped and am getting cramps, so hopeful. Just wanted to share this for anyone thinking of, or just starting hrt!! 

Other positives are that blood sugars are very stable and I am generally needing less insulin, and blood pressure is also very good with no spikes!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 08:57:18 PM by Suzyq »
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 10:23:28 PM »

Good news SuzyQ.  Now things are improving, may I suggest you stop the extra dose you do in the afternoon - I suspect you don't need it.
I'm sure over the next 2-3 months as you get used to the regime you will feel much better.
DG x
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »

Hi dancing girl? Can I ask why you think I don't need it? I'm only doing that as only 2 pumps was giving me bad symptoms by 3 in the afternoon. These were relieved by using the extra bit in the afternoon.  Everything seems to be working ok but I am happy to try without extra 'bit' but unsure about changing dose, up then down then up again if symptoms start coming back. 

Hurdity - thanks for your experience about the symptoms after stopping progesterone! It did help me and now when I'm dizzy, I remind myself why and that it will pass in a couple of days (although people must think I'm drunk, staggering down the street)
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2014, 10:36:40 AM »

Hi SuzyQ
 I'm delighted you are getting a good result.  It was just a suggestion about leaving out the extra bit in the afternoon.  As far as I'm aware, nobody needs to do more than one dose a day of Oestrogel - it's no different than taking the pills in terms of consistency - I suspect you were getting symptoms in the afternoon because it was still an early stage of using HRT.  Perhaps try 2 and half pumps in the morning and see how you feel in the afternoon. I was just thinking that it was a bit of nuisance to have to do this extra tiny bit of gel later in the day when it was probably not needed.  Now your symptoms are more or less under control and your oestrogen level has stabilised you could also try just 2 pumps per day to see if you really need that extra bit.  The general consensus is that women should use the lowest dose that keep things comfortable thereby reducing any possible side effects.  You have been feeling rotten for so long - try to relax and enjoy how good you feel now. DG x
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Cassie

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2014, 10:51:06 AM »

The recommended, average dose is 2 pumps per day which delivers 1.5mg of Oestradiol. I use one and a half so am probably getting, I would guess, about 1mg per day, not sure how that compares to the dosage of other HRT? But do remember that transdermal is a more direct delivery route than per mouth, however, as I have said before, it does take a while for the oestrogen to reach a circulating level in ones body that is enough to relieve most sypmtoms. Give it time still and you should be hunky dory on just 2 pumps, why dont you use it at night rather, or do you prefer the morning? I cannot go less than one and a half pumps, start getting horrible symptoms :(
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2014, 02:51:31 PM »

Thank you dg and Cassie. I will try just 2 pumps and see how I get on with it! I use it in the morning because that's what the dr told me to do and changing now would be too complicated for me to figure out. I do appreciate your advice - it's very helpful when you're just starting out on something and unsure about it all. With regards to dosing more than once per day, I think quite a few ladies do this (on other sites) but it is a bit of a pain so will be very happy if I don't need it!

Susan
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Hurdity

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2014, 06:35:25 PM »

Hi
I've never used gel but just quoting from the SPC for oestrogel
http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19898/SPC#POSOLOGY

...which says

Each measure from the dispenser is 1.25 g of Oestrogel. The usual starting dose is two measures (2.5 g which contains 1.5 mg estradiol) of Oestrogel once daily. In the majority of women this dose will provide effective relief of menopausal symptoms. If after one month's treatment effective relief is not obtained, the dosage may be increased accordingly to a maximum of four measures (5 g which contains 3.0 mg eastradiol) of Oestrogel daily.

It later says:

Patients should be advised not to apply two doses at the same time.

I would infer from this that if you have more than two pumps ie more than 1 dose then the remainder should be applied at a different time (I presume approx 12 hours between the doses??) and I imagine this is to avoid a spike and sudden fall in serum oestrogen levels??

Hurdity x
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2014, 02:44:02 AM »

Well I tried just 2 pumps but after 10 hours symptoms were coming back! Put my extra half dose on and all was well. For now am sticking to my current dosing as it seems to be working for me - feeling very good indeed!!!
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Suzyq

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Re: Wishing I wasn't here!
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 08:56:39 PM »

Hi just an update. Switched to estradot 50 yesterday. The gel was just too unstable and it really felt like I was rubbing on water rather then estrogen. I was aware that I was already at 2.5 pumps and the flushes etc were coming back with a vengeance. As stated before, it really just didn't seem to last a day with me. Been on estradot since yesterday morning and much more level so far. I was prescribed 75 but that was too high for me when I initially tried. I had a bad headache yesterday and racing heart last night at 10pm but apart from that I feel ok. Headache gone today and feeling much more stable than when I was on the gel.

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