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[Blue Kingfisher]

Hello everyone,

It's great to find a forum that I can ask questions & hopefully get advice from 

I'm 47 years old & have been suffering with perimenopausal symptoms for a few years now. I'm also hypothyroid & have developed multiple food intolerances which doesn't really help my situation. I had a child fairly late in life (she is 6 now) & I've been trying to get well ever since she was born.

I went to see a doctor who specialises in bio-identical hormones & they insisted I was oestrogen dominant (which I absolutely wasn't by the way) who just told me to persevere with the progesterone only regime. This made me very ill & took a good few months to correct.

Ive recently tried conventional HRT in the form of tablets & these made me feel dreadful over a short time. It's just not something I can 'push through', it feels inherently wrong in my body.

I have a choice of either doing nothing or seeing a gyne. My symptoms are debilitating. I can't work, am exhausted all the time (I often absolutely HAVE to sleep in the day, particularly around the time of my period) & suffer a lot with nausea & headaches. I used to be very energetic & upbeat but now I'm a complete party pooper & often feel like I hate everyone & everything!?! I don't particularly like myself at the moment!

I have zero libido (would not blame my husband for having an affair or leaving me to be honest) & the bond I have with my lovely little daughter is threatened because I'm just so impatient & well, horrible!

Anyway, you've got to laugh! And I sure there are many many women out there who have it far far worse than I do.

I'm ploying with the idea that Professor Studd might be an option for me. I've looked over his website & he stance on progesterone being required at more infrequent levels than oestrogen strikes a chord with me. I have tried combination therapy of oestrogel & natural progesterone cream on my own but encountered terrible side effects with the progesterone cream. I naughtily tried the oestrogel on its own for a week or so & felt better. Anyway, I got too lost doing this on my own so did nothing thing for a while until I felt I HAD to try something again. Unfortunately it didn't work though but I now know that the HRT tablets certainly do not suit me either. I'm exetermely sensitive to lactose for a kick off & didn't realise the tablets contained this!

I'd love to hear from anyone who has seen Proessor Studd or indeed any other recommendations.

Thank you so much for reading & sorry this message went on for too long!

X

[Hurdity]

Hi Blue Kingfisher

 

You will find plenty of Prof Studd devotees on here who will sing his praises! He is undoubtedly eminent in his field and has done a huge amount of pioneering research.

However you should not need to see him in order to get the bio-identical HRT you are seeking. Unfortunately it sounds as if you've been to see one of the private doctors who practice "Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy" - there was a thread on this recently. This practice is rife in America as well as Oz but less so here. It is a complete con - as is the oestrogen dominance thing which is a ploy to sell progesterone cream.

It is true that progesterone declines during peri-menopause - but that is due to anovulatory cycles (no ovulation). In some women taking progesterone for the second half of the cycle will regulate the periods and bleeding but on its own will not deal with menopausal symptoms. When oestrogen declines you need oestrogen!

Bio-identical hormones are available on NHS as part of conventional HRT - not as compounded creams.

Bio-identical oestrogen is estradiol - in the form of pills patches or gel - all listed here: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/treatafter.php All are bio-identical except for the PRE types which are made from horse urine.

Bio-identical progesterone (the same as your natural progesterone - but in a capsule instead of a cream) is available in micronised form as utrogestan: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/to_progestogens.php .

Progesterone cream is not strong enough to protect the uterus and is not licensed for this purpose.

I don't know where you are based but do some reading around the subject, decide what you want and go back to your GP and ask for - tablet, patch or gel oestrogen - depending on your preference, along with progesterone. It is best to start with the licensed dose of progesterone to make sure it is sufficient to shed your womb lining ( depending on your oestrogen dose) but if you turn out to be intolerant then discuss with your doc reducing the length of time you take it - but you would need an endometrial scan regularly.

You haven't said what your periods are doing - which will give an indication of where you are on the journey.

Libido can be helped with testosterone although some women find initially oestrogen helps ( if this is deficient). The recent NICE Guidelines on  menopause do suggest GPs may prescribe this off licence for low libido but I think this will depend on the practice. However a GP should refer you to a specialists if they lack the expertise.

By all means go and see Prof Studd but he's not the only gyane out there and he's very expensive/London based.

Hope this helps and good luck

Hurdity x

[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi Hurdity & thank you so much for your reply & great advice 

My periods are all over the place i.e. the last three cycles have been 90 days followed by 25 days followed by 50 days. What does that mean do you think?! I've no idea where I am in terms of the journey 

I will take a look at all the links you included regarding the bio-identical HRT, thank you so much for those 

Regarding seeing Professor Studd....I might start a general thread (as opposed to a 'newbie' one) to dig a bit deeper on this as I'd really appreciate hearing from a few people who've been to see him. I think its VERY interesting that you feel it not imperative to see him & that I can obtain the goods from a GP. This now leaves me wondering if Prof. Studd follows the same treatment routine (type of medication, application frequency etc) for everyone (or at least in the first instance) or whether he offers tailored advice in accordance with medical history, age/stage, symptoms etc.

I tried doing things on my own & got nowhere but I totally appreciate the point you are making & I absolutely do not want to pay out for something I really don't have to so again, THANK YOU massively for bringing this to my attention. I had no idea you could get this goods on the NHS! I also appreciate you pointing out that I haven't actually even tried proper progesterone yet (bit of a revelation to me!)......so I'm jumping the gun by presuming I'm progesterone intolerant. Those darn ODM (Oestrogen Dominant Mafia) have a lot to answer for!

I think I need to understand more about exactly WHAT Prof Studd offers before I decide on my next move. Right now I'm still licking my wounds from taking HRT tablets with lactose & equine urine in them! 

I'm based in South Oxfordshire (on the borders of Berkshire). Its pretty easy for me to get into London (I'm only a 5 min cycle ride from the train station & it takes less than an hour on the train)

Thank you again Hurdity......you've already opened my eyes to options that I didn't know existed 

Thank you x

[Taz2]

Hi Blue Kingfisher. Have you asked to be referred to a menopause clinic. There is a good one at The Women's Centre based at John Radcliffe in Oxford. Might be worth a try?

Taz x

[Hurdity]

Blue Kingfisher  - it depends on the strength of the progesterone cream you were given but if it was compounded at the high dose needed to protect the womb ( and there is no standardisation of this) then a lot of it would have got into your system leading to the side effects you experienced. If you use micronised progesterone (Utrogestan) then although unlicensed to be used in this way in UK, many of use use it vaginally to minimise systemic absorption - (my GP is happy with this). There are usually some side effects because progesterone is a sedative but the main thing is to protect your womb and be able to function while taking it!

So - you may or may not be progesterone intolerant! I think most of us are to a greater or lesser degree ie feel generally worse during the second half of their natural menstrual cycle than after our period has finished, up to ovulation.

Your first port of call, having read about all of this is the best GP in your practice - that you have found out is sympathetic to women in menopause and is knowledgeable about HRT - and then if no joy as Taz says you can ask to be referred to an NHS menopause clinic - and still go along armed with your knowledge and what you would like to try - with your reasons. Great that there is one so close to you

Good luck and keep us posted.

Hurdity x

[Niamh]

Hi there

I'm 41 and peri and I've seen Studd for nearly a year now and had 3 appointments with him and many emails! I am an absolute devotee and can't recommend him enough, he has changed my life. My symptoms may have been different to you but I'm very happy to share them and my experiences with you.....so I saw him for crippling pmt, I have 2 boys and had pnd after my no 2 boy who is just 2.5 now. I was running on anxiety, depressed, lost loads of weight, couldn't sleep well and then my pmt was so debahiltating, o really wanted to crawl into a corner and die My GP told me I could have either the pill or a mirena, the mirena sent me mad, I had it removed on 48 hours. So I saw Studd as there was no mention or offer of hrt. Studd diagnosed progesterone intolerance and also I have osteopenia, my ostrogen lovely were v low too. He put me on 3 pumps of gel, 7 days of utro X 100 mg and testim (testosterone). I think he more or less starts everyone on this although I've seen others on a variation of this. However he's worked with me to tweak this and find the perfect dose. I'm now on 2 pumps of gel and my ostrogen levels have gone from around 180 to nearly 700, I'm using a tiny blob of testim and the progesterone we are working on as for me this is the biggest issue as I struggle with even the 7 days. He's asked my GP to refer me for a hyster to be rid of progesterone for good and I see her on Friday. I guess in short I've found him delightful and life changing

[Niamh]

Hit go too soon!!!

Yes found him brilliant and he will really work with you to get the right formula. You have to be patient and give it time though. Ive read quite a few negative things on here too about his style but I've never had a problem, he's always been attentive and genuinely cares.

Hope that helps x

[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi Niamh,

Good to hear your positive story & that you are doing much better now. It's so horrible when you have little ones to look after on top of everything else!

Taz - thanks for mentioning the Oxford clinic but I've decided to book an appointment with the Prof. Studd clinic.

As you say Niamh, he is booked up until Oct. I have therefore booked an appointment with Michael Savvas who is Prof. Studd trained & the secretary said he will work to the same ethos as Studd but I can see him a lot sooner as Studd is booked up. I have an appointment on Friday 19th August.

I hope I've done the right thing by not waiting to see Studd himself...?

Are there any blood tests I could get done in advance by my GP does anyone know?

X

[Niamh]

It literally was hell at times and my poor babies had such a miserable mum but I can't tell you good I feel now they still drive me nuts tho 😂

I'm sure you've done the right thing don't worry and you can always see Studd if things aren't going as you'd like.

Studd does a full set of blood tests each time but it's about £300 I think you could ask your GP, I always just get him to do them as easier.....
Nx

[babyjane]

hi Blue Kingfisher, I can't comment on the HRT side of things but you say you are hypothyroid.  When were your levels last checked and how often are they checked?  My thyroid levels fluctuated wildly after my daughter was born and took over 18 months to settle down properly.  that was 30 years ago but they also became quite unstable at the menopause.  Don't put it all down to oestrogen/progesterone, make sure your thyroxine levels are correct for you now.  Good luck and hope you soon start to feel better.

[Mary G]

Wow, Professor Studd is very booked and obviously in demand. 

Blue Kingfisher, well done for making the appointment with Michael Savvas, I have just been reading his website and he sounds very good, definitely go for it!  He has trained with Studd and as long as he uses his prescription methods (i.e. does not over prescribe the progesterone part of HRT) then I think he could be a very good alternative.  Please do let us know how you get on, it would be great to get feedback about another hormone/menopause specialist and lots of women reading MM then have another option.

You might want to get a full set of blood tests from your doctor before your appointment.  This is what Freckles did and it saved her a lot of money.  Do make sure you have the full set of hormones (FSH, oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone are a must and try and get a DHEA test) and also have the full set of thyroid tests. 

I really hope this works out for you and that you get the help and the HRT you need. 

Niamh, I'm so pleased to hear that you are feeling so much better.

[Blue Kingfisher]

Thanks Mary G for outlining the tests, I will request these from my GP & see what he says. I think I've made the right decision now too   


Will let you know how I get on!

X

[Blue Kingfisher]

Ooo! Actually, I've just thought of something actually to do with getting the blood tests done.....

I only managed 16 days on Elleste Duet as felt so much worse on them but took my last dose on 16th July.....I'm just wondering if I had blood tests done too early that the result might be slightly skewed if there's still some Estelle Duet floating around in my body.

Is is advisable to be off HRT for a minimum time frame before getting an accurate blood test?

My appointment is on Friday 19th with the Gyne which is just over a month after stopping the HRT. I'm keen to get the tests done I advance to save on cash but not if they won't give the most accurate picture......

Any idea on this anyone?? 

[Mary G]

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I would go ahead with the blood tests but make sure you tell Dr. Savvas when you last took the oestrogen, I dount you will have that much left in your system by them anyway but obviously he needs to know.

Don't forget to ask if he can write to you doctor with his recommended prescription, that way, you should be able to get it on the NHS and it will save you money. 

[Freckles]

Hi Blue Kingfisher

I had my bloods done on the NHS before seeing John Studd (on the very sensible advice of Mary G!) for which I'm grateful as it didn't occur to me.

I asked for oestrogen, testosterone, FSH and progesterone and got the printouts to take with me to see Studd.   I also have Hashimoto's disease and am on thyroxine although my T4 levels have been stable for years, so asked for a copy of my last T4 test too.
I told the GP receptionist I was seeing someone privately and that they had requested these blood tests- to my amazement they arranged those! I was told they don't do DHEA tests routinely on the NHS.
The NHS have also just done my blood tests again prior to me seeing Studd in 2 weeks for my first 3 month check up, I think because they have prescribed for me on the NHS.

Pleased I did get the tests done, as my oestrogen level was just 72! Lower than most men's. Even though I was on Femoston1/10 and had been for years.
It confirmed for me that most of my problems were due to lack of oestrogen and that for me personally, Femoston was totally clinically ineffective, made me feel like a walking, over anxious zombie and unlikely to protect from future osteoporosis, and other problems due to lack of the right HRT, etc.
Anyway, my oestrogen levels are now, after 3 months on Studd's regime are now 900  and I feel better than I have done for years using Femoston.

Re costs at Studd's clinic- I was informed that for routine hormone tests it's £250, but for the all singing, all dancing test (hormones, vitamin levels, cholesterol, iron, etc.,  etc.) it's £300.
So do get the tests done on the NHS if you can re your hormones.

Studd also composed a letter in front of me to my GP (and sent me a copy) requesting I was prescribed his regime. They did, including Testim gel  (testosterone) which some women have trouble getting, and without my GP bothering to see me.
Using Utrogestan (progesterone) tablets, 100mg for seven days a month, vaginally, really works for me. I get a regular bleed each month and with minimal side effects, compared to using Femoston, where I got nothing re a bleed but all the side effects.

Hope your appointment goes well- be patient though. I was advised to wait 3 months to notice a difference, although I did notice a shift in mood after about a week/10 days.

Sorry for the long post!
Let us know how it goes?