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[honeybun]

There has been a lot in the press about this over the past couple of days.

It's quite worrying to be honest.

Has anyone made any concrete plans on how care is to be payed for if it's required.

I would love to be able to leave my kids something after I am gone but it's probably not going to happen. I don't want to be a financial burden on them either.
It's not exactly something you start to save for in your twenties and then by the time you have payed a mortgage and the bottomless pit that is children it's enough to be saving for your retirement .


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

It depends on where in the UK we live.  My Financial Advisor; Mum's FA; the good weekend Pension advice all say to give the children money NOW! in small amounts.  We are allowed to give a certain amount annually and it ain't a lot in cash terms but 1 is allowed to buy a car, put down a property deposit, pay for holidays etc. without tax man being interested.

It's when people make over their houses to children as a way of avoiding paying care fees - the property can be snatched back!  It's when people don't ask independent financial advice that muddles happen.  Mum was advised after Dad died to make a Trust Fund where the annual interest pays a dividend to be shared between my sister and me: the Divi gets paid into Mum's bank yearly, she makes out 2 cheques: hey presto! 

Paying for Financial Advice can pay dividends  …….

If 1 has children then setting up a 'fund' is probably the way to go or pay them an amount monthly which they can then save ….. that way they are getting money not expected, they can put it into accounts which pay long-term interest for 'later' ;-).

[Joyce]

Our FA told us to spend our money. Also said we can gift money too. We will need to seek further advice in a few years I'm sure.

[CLKD]

We have an annual review.  It takes the whole day 'cos he's here chatting for ages  before, during and after …… but it is well worth the annual update! as issues change and when we get a new government, Pension etc. will probably change again!  Just don't buy an annuity 

[Dancinggirl]

I don't want to get too political but yesterday on the news the current health minister/secretary (I can't remember his name) actually called for there to be a cross party collaboration in regards to social care. I think it's high time they took health and social care out of the political arena so they can come to some realistic and practical solutions about how to address our nations needs.  It's quite ridiculous to have parties fighting over this issue and not really addressing the real needs. We all want to feel safe with the NHS and know we will be treated well in our old age.  Yes the whole thing is unwieldy and inefficient and needs some co-ordinated restructuring to prevent the very evident waste of funds but I believe we simply have to start paying more into the system. No single party is going to stand up and admit this but if they all get together and say to us we have to pay more NI then so be it. Yes it should be earnings related and frankly if people have a good income from their pensions (maybe over £35,000 per year) then NI should continue to be paid beyond retirement.
The politicians have tried to persuade us to take out insurance for care in our old age but many of us simply can't afford to do this. We are moving more and more towards a two tier system where those that can afford to go privately get what they need and everyone else gets the barest minimum.
Sorry for the rant - I find the whole thing quite frightening.  DG x

[CLKD]

What would be a 'good income' though?  It's like telling people who own a house 'over £1M' to pay extra tax 

We have paid towards our NI but that is never likely to cover all that is likely to be required!  Those that haven't paid towards NI will currently get basic state funded care …….. others can choose what we pay towards, i.e. holidays, total hip replacements, money towards children/grand-children in the way of education/cars/deposits.

I believe we should pay for our daily live-style as we see fit because we could drop dead sooner rather than later and never get to spend it! 

The State will have to find a way of providing care over-all but that probably won't happen in my Life time.  I believe that everyone should have full nursing care available from the start.  It is awful to be in a care home then have to move because that home doesn't provide nursing care  or care for people with dementia etc..  All 'homes' should have nursing staff from the start, our local home doesn't insist on all their staff having a basic first aid knowledge  ……. and residents have to move house when different needs become necessary 

In England medical care should be 'free at the point of delivery' but it isn't clear where 'point of delivery' begins  so even if a person pays for B&B, any medical care should be on the NHS.  It is also important to remember that it costs money to provide care for a person.  In the private sector monies go towards the upkeep of the building and gardens, insurances, TV Licence, re-decorating between clients, on going new carpets etc.; staff pensions, staff insurances, training: any trips 'out and about', any transport costs to hospital/church/chapel    ……   so £35,000 per annum on private 'care' seems a lot but it is important to find out what the actual break-down is.

[Taz2]

I'd have to sell the house to do this "My Financial Advisor; Mum's FA; the good weekend Pension advice all say to give the children money NOW! in small amounts." as there's no money anywhere else!

Taz x 

[CLKD]

So speak to a financial advisor which is free at your bank Taz but they of course, will only tell clients about the Products that are supported by that particular organisation.

Speaking with a Financial Advisor is not expensive! leaving it to the Government may turn out *to* be!

StellaJane - I hear all you say, having had a glimpse into the various states of 'care'.  Would you be prepared to boost her funds …….. maybe now is the time to talk to the Manager of the 'company' which runs this establishment.  I expect that she has needed to sign a 'contract' - Dad's stated that he could be ousted with 7 days notice should he become difficult 

[honeybun]

It doesn't exactly answer my question.

What provision have you made.

If your hubby needs care before you, do they go into a council funded home or do you sell your home to provide for him. Then when your time comes what happens then.
I don't have a financial adviser. I own half of another house.....does that count or is that mine.
My hubby is ten years older than me. What happens if he needs more care than I can give him.

It's a complete nightmare that no politician has a good answer for.

There are no insurance companies that even provide a policy for the younger ones.

It's really a problem that needs addressing.....oh and I have no money to give to my kids now....I need it for our old age 


Honeyb
X

[Taz2]

Sorry - I haven't made any provision as there's no money to make provision with. There's no point talking to a financial advisor if you have no spare money!!

Taz x 

[honeybun]

I agree Taz, I manage on what I have coming in every month but there is nothing of any great amount left over.

That's what worries me as we get older.


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

We are taking each year as it arrives.  When DH retired his Health Care stopped.  We haven't made any provision for hip replacement etc. nor for future residential care. 

In England if family owns their property but a person in the household needs care, those reliant on that home cannot be turfed out in order to fund care.  A person should only be charged for 'nursing' care over and above anything not 'free at the point of delivery' but it is difficult to find out what that covers exactly.  I believe that the 'home' will be sold after the person has died to cover fees ……. for the person left behind, hopefully by then the Government will have got their act together.

All physical/mental health care is free ………. dentistry however is not, even under the NHS.  There are certain things that are now seen as 'cosmetic'  , therefore not covered by the NHS.

So a person receiving nursing care whether at home or in residential/nursing home should not have to pay for care - funds should be for B&B only.  Stellajane: what excuse has been given to mean that your Mum has had to move ? because I can't see any nursing care which would be 'extra' where ever it is given: hospital, retirement home, care home, nursing home …….    …..

As stated, one can accept state funded care - which may mean sharing a room, with no en-suite; in some places I have known that the residents don't even get their own clothing, it all goes into a cupboard and is doled out …….  hopefully if one is paying for a place that shouldn't happen.  I would expect if I were paying for a place then all the Staff were ex-nurses!

[honeybun]

When my step father went into a private care home for respite it was a damned sight worse than some of the council ones he had been in before. It was a BUPA one and the level of care was shocking. That was his last respite and I think the level of care contributed to his rapid decline in health. He never had to share a room in any of the homes that he was in. I visited every single one he stayed in and they were numerous. They varied wildly in the standards offered and I found the council ones to be every bit as good if not better than the very expensive private ones.

It's very sad really that this is how we look after the generation that survived the war years.

In Scotland the elderly are entitled to free care at home. The standards again vary. The council contract out care to various agencies. There is no continuity in the carers and frequently strangers turn up that don't have a clue what they are supposed to be doing. I suppose it's better than nothing but it's far from ideal.


Honeyb
X

[Joyce]

My FIL wanted to go into BUPA one which was along the road from where he stayed, so we went for a visit. Last place on earth we would have put him! We didn't announce we were coming, just arrived, which is best way to do it. You see it as it really is.

He lived in a council house & was put in the first home available, wouldn't have been our choice but were left with no option. He got some funding but much of his precious savings went towards his care. Daughter saw many faults in the care provided. However, whilst training she went to a VSA home. Said that when our time comes she'll try & get us a place there. Standard of care was top notch according to her.

When our kids are of that age, they probably won't have enough savings. They'll be lucky to have a decent pension.

There was an article on the news today about a chap whose mum needed care for dementia in her 60s. They'd tried to cope with her needs at home, but it became apparent she needed more. FA advisor told them best thing was to sell her house & invest the money to pay for her care, but reckoned with rising costs the maximum the money would last for is 6-7 years. Sad state of affairs. My mum's house was sold for her care. Nearly 20 years ago it cost about £1000 per month.  She had a shared room, single rooms were kept for the very frail & infirm.  Nowadays most are single rooms with private bathrooms. Shared ones are for couples.

[Linsey44]

Interesting topic ladies this is what I found after much research and meeting and speaking to accountants and lawyers and 2 IFAs in Scotland where i live.  Dont know if this is of any help to anyone or not but I was doing this to help parents with the process.

Parents needed to downsize house so they sold it.
They wanted to buy new house themselves, live in it but sign it over to my sister and i, thinking this would clear them of any Inheritance tax (IT) liabilities / care home fees etc.

It doesnt.

As far as the tax man is concerned this is called a reservation of benefit under tax rules and as far as councils are concerned they can still chase for the care home money if they think you have done this to deliberately avoid the fees and they can go back years.

Best method is for parents to sell house.
Gift kids money.
The kids can then use the gifted money to buy another house by physically paying the lawyer the money for it out of their own bank account.  It could not come from the parents bank account direct to the lawyer.
The parents can then live in the house free of any rent etc.
When they die or need care the house cannot be considered as one of their own personal assets.
All gifts should be recorded and dated by the doner and the recipient (keeps it all tidy)
Around £3000 per tax year can be gifted from both mother and father, these amounts cannot be considered as trying to avoid IT.
Sometimes if no gifts have been made in the previous tax year the allowance can be carried forward.

As far as i am aware if a property is jointly owned by a couple and one requires care a charge could be put against their share of the house.  The remaining person cannot be forced into selling but the charge would be repaid at eventual point of sale.

In scotland there is sometime the case that the nhs pays for the care home its called nhs continuing care and under that circumstance no charge can be put against the house.

Very complicated.

HB As for your original question i havent thought about care homes yet.