Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Turkish delight on February 25, 2022, 05:39:53 PM
-
Amber, Green, or don't notice between (them)
Were talking about Oestrogel again and the colour square on the bottom left of the back of the bottle.
I think this mini poll could help us work out whether it's likely that the colour squares mean anything significant.
And whether or not these are going to affect all, some or none of us.
Can you post under here which works best for you?
Or no difference noted?
TD
-
Hi i called the pharmacist in London who issued my green squared bottles... he said they are both the same ingredients x
-
I've used both, currently got green square bottles, I honestly can't tell any difference between the two, but we are all different in our response to things.
-
I've only been using oestrogel for just over 2 months and the bottles I've had have all had the green square so I know nothing other than what I've experienced using this and this alone. My symptoms of GSM have greatly improved (I've had difficulty using anything topical and stopped using anything down below a few wks ago on Dr's advice, so I'm putting the improvement down to the systemic hrt). My mood has gone from suicidal (no joke, this was a grim time) to back to what I was...a grumpy old cow but one that can at least function. Insomnia (5yrs+ of very little sleep) resolved. Energy levels greatly improved. So make of that what you will. I'd take green, amber or any damn colour square tbh as long as I could be assured I could get it without the stress of all the shortages! I'm aware some folks may feel there is a difference though so i watch this with interest.
-
As already mentioned no problems for me either.
-
Brilliant, thanks gals, this is helping already.
I've just lately been on the Amber square ones. Only known to check squares for past 2 weeks.
My next bottle is Green so will monitor it, trying to avoid the nocebo effect as someone else mentioned.
In January I had a dip in Oestrogen, cried my way through the whole month plus yoyoing mood, insomnia, headaches, and so as others have said January was a write-off.
I had to increase gel and then 2 weeks later felt better, so wondering whether it was the Green square effect.
Chucked the bottle out before I knew to check.
TD
-
Well…..
I had a terrible six weeks from Xmas through Jan, severe fatigue, low mood, aches and pains….
In feb I started to feel much better and then discovered the amber/green square thread. I checked and was just coming to the end of an amber bottle…
I put two and two together and started to wonder if I had been using green bottles in Dec/Jan.. I currently have two bottles on the go, one of each… pretty reluctant to use the green one given how rotten I felt for the past few months although I have absolutely no proof at all, I wonder if the pharmacy could give me the batch numbers of my previous bottles?
I’ve gone ‘blind’ today, will continue to use my current bottle not knowing if it is amber or green and see how things pan out!
Ali x
-
I definitely noticed a difference using the green square however I swapped to the patch and lasted just over 24 hours so maybe I was going through a bad period of time! I have one more bottle of orange so will see what happens when I use my last bottle of green! I’m hoping it is the placebo effect!
-
alibeau interesting and clever to hide it from yourself, might have to copy that at some point ;)
Did you up the dose after feeling bad in new year?
TD
-
alibeau interesting and clever to hide it from yourself, might have to copy that at some point ;)
Did you up the dose after feeling bad in new year?
TD
I felt so bad that I contacted Heather Currie by econsult through this website.
She advised that I could try to cut down to two pumps (as due to some of my symptoms she wondered if my own cycle had kicked in and therefore I had too much oestrogen). I was to try that for 2-3 months and if no better increase to 4 pumps as I might be low in oestrogen. Unfortunately it appears that most symptoms can be caused by either too much or equally to little oestrogen so it is trial and error to try and find out!
Whilst I was waiting for Heather to reply I started to feel much improved and so by the time I received her suggestions I thought it best to leave well alone and stick with the 3 pumps I have been on for almost a year. Right up until Xmas this had worked well for me.
Then I discovered the thread about the coloured squares and wondered if this is what could have effected me?
Anyway, as I say I've gone 'blind' now. I am due a HRT review over the phone on Monday but I think I will try and ring my pharmacy on Monday morning to see it they can help re batch numbers. However I wonder if I am best not knowing as I am aware that Oestrogel is hard enough to source, never mind if I start requesting certain batch numbers!!!
Or I could ask the nurse if I can try patches but I'd really rather not switch as the gel had been working well for me.....
Sorry for the waffle!
Ali x
-
Just discovered this so sorry I’m late to the party Turkish Delight.
I’ve had no issues with my dosing for the he years I’ve had oestrogel until my last prescription. Suddenly back to anxiety, suicidal mood (no joke either) night sweats and waking with pounding heart. I happened across a live of a specialist talking with a gp about Besin changing their formula green square v orange square and how some women had their symptoms come back. The only similarity was that these women had the bottle with the green square.
I thought I’d go and check mine as I never notice things like that! Yep I have the green square bottle. It can’t be the nocebo effect for me.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTpiD9GqVS1/?utm_medium=copy_link
-
Meant to say that’s the link to the live. Very interesting and also covers a lot about hrt for those who are new to it.
-
Just in case it helps anyone, I have upped my usual dose of 3 pumps to 3 and a 1/2 if I am using a 'green square' bottle and this seems to work for me. I have just collected my latest prescription and the bottle is amber square so I will drop back down to 3 pumps when I use it.
HTH.
Ali x
-
I’ve had returned symptoms again and now realised that it’s the new batch which is orange square but it has now orange swirl! Just watched an Instagram post about it! Thinking of swapping to Sandrena ?
-
Flan747 me too. Hope that doesn’t run out too ::)
Alibeau thank you for that tip. You’re really lucky getting hold of some it’s still not back in stock where I live.
-
So I ran out of my Amber square bottle a couple of weeks ago. I didn't want to believe the whole Green square Amber square thing, partly bcz there's nothing we can do about it. Plus apparently, there's a Yellow square one too.
I had trouble with reoccurring symptoms back in Jan and Feb, but didn't know anything about the squares theory then so didn't take note of whether I was on the less potent bottle(Green)
So after a good month on Amber, symptoms were under control again though I had upped the dose by half pump as I was still unaware of the squares theory. I now have insomnia, headache, bad tearfulness, mood swings, dry throat, bad brain fog, I'm saying the dumbest things, and body aches again.
So I'm thinking there is something to this. It's weaker it seems!? Based on my own anecdotal evidence, which pharma company is going to spend the money to test this out in a lab!?
:boobs:
TD
-
Definitely is different! I was on 6 pumps orange square ticking along nicely then had some green and some orange square but without the swirl and my symptoms returned and this was backed up by a low estradiol blood test! Now on patches and am much better and just getting my dose right !
-
WOW! really, that's amazing. I've never been offered a test so don't know what my levels are. Can you just ask on the NHS?
TD
-
I asked my GP for a test to see if I was absorbing the gel due to returning symptoms and luckily he was happy to do it!
-
Keep the bottles ladies and report defective product to :
https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
This will make sure any batch that is not doing it’s job is reported and something can potentially be done to highlight any watering down, ingredient changing etc. I reported 2 green square bottles that were completely different texture to orange square and on the green square my symptoms returned.
Confusingly I’m now on more green square and consistency/texture is thicker and symptoms under control.
-
Lousie, I just re-watched the insta post you linked, it is brilliant, I really recommend ppl watch it. Reading the posts alongside someone wrote something very informative, I will copy-paste it under here.
"Ladies, if you read the Patient Information Leaflet of Oestrogel you can see that the product used to be manufactured by Delpharm im Drogenbos, Belgium. The recently changed PIL (December 2021) says it can be manufactured by Delpharm in Drogenbos, Belgium OR Besins Laboratories International, in Montrouge, Paris, France (LBI), so there's clearly a difference between the products, even if the formulation should be exactly the same, it will probably not be the same because different manufacturing facilities might be subjected to minor differences in raw materials, including the API (active pharmaceutical ingredient), in this case, estradiol hemihydrate, or the other non-active ingredients (alcohol, trolamine, purified water). LBI only used to manufacture testosterone gel for the US market (Androgel), according to Besins Healthcare international website, but now LBI is also manufacturing Oestrogel (the ones with the green square 🟩 apparently, the batch numbers are a 5-digit starting with 10). I still don't know if all products are going to be manufactured in France in due time (France has a government project to relocate many manufacturing facilities back to France, to avoid shortages caused by the monopoly of China and India in the pharmaceutical industry, among other factors).
I suppose it's just a matter of adjusting the doses between the 🟧 bottles and the green square 🟩 ones. It will depend on each woman to figure out which one has to be increased or decreased in dose because depending on which one you were before, you might feel better with either the green square 🟩 or the orange square 🟧."
-
That’s really useful TD thank you for posting. The link was good wasn’t it? The Australian lady hosting is great for talking to many people with useful info on all things to do with the menopause to. definitely re post it.
X
-
The link is great Lousie, thanks for finding and posting it.
The date on the post is September 2021, just so ppl know when this was starting to become noticeable, but reported before that date obv.
For those looking to watch it, the link is under here.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTpiD9GqVS1/?utm_medium=copy_link
All my most recent bottles are the Green square from France with 5 digit code starting with the number 10...boohooo!
I find it hard to believe Basins hasn't drawn a connection to the different plants being at the center of the issue, it's page 1 stuff, not like you need to do a lot of digging if you were working for Basins and put in charge of researching why this is happening.
For me, I've decided to add another small blob of gel, I'm already at 6 pumps, and then ask to have an Estrodial test at GP and/or be referred to a menopause clinic with the view of changing to patches. Bcz it seems as though Basins answer to higher demand for their gel has resulted in the French plant now producing some too, and it seems to be producing a "less than"version.
TD
-
Very late to the party I know but has this issue been resolved now? I came off oestrogen for a while then restarted using a canister I obtained months ago which has the green square and was baffled as it doesn't seem to be working at all. Reading this thread was a comfort- I'm not going crazy. I will ditch this canister and try one with an amber square now!
-
Weirdly I prefer the green square. Maybe I am on too much with the amber? Have you considered that your needs might have changed now and you need to adjust the dosage?
-
I've been using the gel for many years. Started off on two pumps then gradually reduced to one. My main symptoms have always been night sweats and daytime flushing. Some time ago we had the Oestrogel v Oestrodose debate. At that stage I seemed able to swap between the two with no issues at all. Possibly I think it may have been because at that stage I was well pre-loaded with oestrogen.
Recently I tried coming off HRT but within a few weeks the drenching sweats returned so I re-started using a green square canister which I've been using for several weeks now and it's made absolutely no difference at all. I would have expected at least some relief by now. I was lying in bed last night under my summer weight duvet absolutely boiling up and wondering what the hell was going on. Going to start using an orange/amber square canister tonight so fingers crossed I'll start to feel some improvement soon.
Maybe there was just a rogue batch of green marked canisters and others are OK?
-
Hi Jillyboo…it could take 3 months for the Oestrogen to build up again in your system. x
-
I agree Dotty. When you have been running on empty it takes a while to build up reserves again. You could try increasing your dose and then rein it in again once you are settled. Or go slow and accept the time it will take to get to a decent level.
-
Sadly none of them worked for me whichever colour the bottle had on it. My oestrodial level plummeted to only 53 as I did not absorb it at all according to the Meno consultant yet before the shortages I was on Oestrogel for over 25 years with no problems so for sure for me personally something changed. I have transferred to Estradot 50 patches and had my first blood test this week levels up now to 144 and have been advised to go up to the 75 patch which should hopefully get my levels up again to over the 200 mark. Definitely beginning to feel a lot better than I was on Oestrogel - still get some ups and downs but the downs becoming less and less. x
-
Oh, there's definitely something in the sauce as they say.
Some women feel it and others are less sensitive to it. We are all different, some do better with green square and others amber, and you don't know until you know if you get my drift. It's blatantly obvious to you when it affects you.
TD
-
Two nights back on the amber and I can already feel the heat at night starting to ease off. I've been on HRT for about 15 yrs now and have taken periodic breaks just to see if anything has changed. It takes my body 3 weeks almost to the day to register oestrogen loss with night sweats and flushing and the same 3 weeks to get back into my comfort zone when I restart! That's what started the alarm bells ringing when I was still feeling just as hot after 2 weeks. Anyway onwards and upwards as they say.
-
Hello Jillyboo.
I don't use Oestrogel these days so I can't comment on the Amber/Green debate but I was interested in your experience.
I came off all HRT in 2019 and after about two weeks of no Oestrogen I began to have vaginal atrophy symptoms for the first time. Recently when I reduced Sandrena gel from the equivalent of 50mcg to 25mcg I noticed the dryness starting after two weeks. An increase back to 50mcg resolved the problem two weeks later.
It's nice to have some sort of predictability amidst all the hormonal chaos!
Wishing you well.
K.
-
I'm quite convinced that I shall need to remain on HRT for the rest of my days if I'm to maintain a good quality of life. I watched the doctor on Instagram which someone left a link to above and she mentioned that its her 'flushers' who seem to register any slight change in oestrogen levels first (they were the women who started telling her their gel wasn't working any more when the 'squares' issue was first raised). I guess it proved quite useful as she was then able to alert all her patients who were using Oestrogel! I count myself lucky to be going through this in 2023 and not decades ago. All the females on my mother's side of the family suffered horribly with sweats and flushing (I'm convinced there's a genetic component but that's for another discussion!)
-
I think we should all be grateful that we can get HRT, and estrogel and it is freely available on NHS (or at very low cost of prescrption charges), to help us through this difficult time, without worrying about coloured squares! If you really think it makes a difference then adjust the quantity you use according to the squares - or as alibeau said early on in this thread, go "blind" so you don't know, or change to patches which are very consistent.....
Hurdity x
-
Pippa 52 - how interesting that you had been using gel for such a long time then began to have absorption issues. Did your meno specialist have any suggestions as to why that might have happened? Glad to hear you've found a solution anyway.