Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Krista on July 15, 2017, 07:04:02 PM
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Hi everyone,
My periods stopped around three years ago and roughly since that time I have had anxiety and depression like you wouldn't believe. Stomach churning, suicidal thoughts/planning and panic attacks. Now around this time I started taking sleeping tablets (which I'm coming off) plus my personal life took a nosedive. I have been trying to figure out why I have this anxiety and have started to think that it may be linked to the menopause. I read a newspaper article Carol Vorderman did about her depression and the menopause - she said BHRT did the trick. I am on Estriol cream for vaginal atrophy (sorry lol) and wanted to ask if anyone else had depression since menopause and if so, did you get it resolved?
I'm assuming I'd need to go private to get BHRT? Oh I also got the doctor at my practise to run a hormone check and my results came back ok but I'm now reading that this is standard for menopausal women and doesn't give the whole story as to hormone depletion.
I am just so sick and tired of feeling like this. My life has stopped because my anxiety is so bad. It's difficult to know whether my problems are psycological or biological but I keep thinking I should try BHRT?
Thanks,
K
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Hello honey.
I started with anxiety in peri when I was 48, now 54...
Long story but survived divorce, very stressful job, house moves x2 and the death of my eldest son two years ago.
I take citralopam and propananol...if I can get well anyone can. I have no partner.
How did I do it, mindfullness, avoid caffeine, eat little and often......look always at the positives and re evaluated whats important in your life.
Hugs Woodlands xx
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Hi Woodlands,
I'm so sorry to hear about your son. :(
I've been reading the guys website who treated Carol Vorderman and he says a lot of middle aged women are prescribed AD when they can be treated with BHRT. I'm on AD and they don't work for me so I'm wondering if it's my hormones instead. If you started having anxiety at 48 - did you get HRT or just AD's? Do you feel "normal" again? You know the more I think about it the more I'm thinking I should ask my doctor about this next time. And if no luck there, I might go private. Anxiety is so tough!!
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Hi Krista, you are right and there are some ladies here who know a lot about menopausal anxiety, depression and HRT. I am sure someone will post a reply soon that will offer you the support you need.
I just wanted to welcome you as I don't use HRT so cannot advise you. :welcomemm:
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Thanks BabyJane,
I'm just browsing these forums and learning about stuff in general.
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Regardless of the 'cause' of your suicidal thoughts, i.e. hormonal or clinical, you need to speak with your GP ASAP or Samaritans. It may take ages to find a suitable HRT and I have never read details here as to how long HRT can take to decrease depression/anxiety but certainly appropriate anti-depressants and/or a med to ease anxiety should be considered.
Localised HRT for vaginal atrophy is often essential, ::) we have several threads on that here .......
What is BHRT? I haven't seen anything about Carol Voderman's experiences.
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I've found the Samaritans and doc to be pretty much useless for me re depression and thoughts. I had three months of CBT and that didn't work, so now I'm thinking it's hormonal or it's the sleeping tablets (although I'm on a low dose sleeping tablet).
I'm just looking into HRT (BHRT is biodentical hormone replacement therapy) - shows how little I know - I thought my Estriol cream was HRT but it seems this cream only helps with the nether regions.
Not sure I'm allowed to post a link but if you Google Carol Vorderman menopause Daily Mail, you'll see her article come up. She had bad depression and suicidal thoughts around the time of menopause - went to see a doctor - got BHRT and was back to her old self a couple of days later. I don't know the difference between HRT and BHRT but am going to ask my doc for some of either.
Edited to add link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4501426/Carol-Vorderman-says-NHS-offer-women-bespoke-HRT.html
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Hormone Replacement Therapy is a mine-field until one sorts through it all. Many ladies get on well with biodenticals ....... browse round, make notes. Read the green menus on here which should help. A couple of days seems rather fast, though having been listened to will have helped Carol V I expect, her story has been mentioned here but I missed it ....... CBT didn't work for me either as my anxiety was engrained from shortly after birth.
The problem I found with the Samaritans was that I never spoke to the same person twice as they don't want a 'relationship' built between the sufferer and volunteer. Which meant that at a time when I was hardly able to move due to depression, I had to keep repeating my story ....... I gave up :-\.
Treatment for atrophy is an HRT in that as oestrogen levels drop off, the body may become dry: deep in the ears, eyes, skin, vagina >:( ::) - I have found Ovestin used regularly helps enormously, others use Vagifem - along with moisturisers if necessary to the outer area. For me it was like razor blades up there! :o
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Not sure I'm allowed to post a link but if you Google Carol Vorderman menopause Daily Mail, you'll see her article come up. She had bad depression and suicidal thoughts around the time of menopause - went to see a doctor - got BHRT and was back to her old self a couple of days later. I don't know the difference between HRT and BHRT but am going to ask my doc for some of either.
Krista - here's the thread discussing it at the time:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35819.0.html
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Hello Krista and welcome to the forum.
I know exactly how you feel. Anxiety and depression really started for me when my periods stopped plus standard HRT hasn't stopped the flushing. I am now thinking about going to a private menopause clinic and/or emailing Dr Currie.
There are many ladies here who will understand how you feel so you are not alone.
Take care.
K.
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Learnt quite a bit reading these forums and the links provided - thankyou to all who have replied. It seems I don't need to go private for HRT (and that most (BHRT is plant based anyway - need to learn more about that). I was under the impression that BHRT could only be described privately. Will talk to my doc and need to read more on this, but I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel now. Maybe it IS my hormones after all. I read somewhere that bipolar condition is given to around 90% of women. Funny that the percentage is so high - maybe it's their hormones too.
You know I never had one single flush - all I've noticed is the anxiety and depression. I'm going to my doctor to get HRT patches/gels. Not sure which are the best but from reading the forums, it seems different things work for different people.
Kathleen, what do you think will be different if you go private?
Thanks again everyone. I will keep you updated.
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Many GPs still believe that unless a woman reports flushes, she isn't peri or menopausal >:(. For me it was more of an all over 'glow' after my evening bath ::) which lasted about 10 mins. each evening. For about 6-9 months. Then went.
Take a list to your GP perhaps: date of LMP; symptoms you have noticed int he last 3-4 months; the symptom you struggle with the most ..... then let us know?
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Krista, you might find GypsyRoseLee's posts interesting, she suffered with hormonal depression and anxiety and has had great success with Professor Studd's regime i.e. the same as Carol Volderman. I am also using the same regime but at a different dose for different problems and have found it to be the best HRT regime by far. My problem was endless sweating and poor thermostatic control and Oestrogel has completely eradicated the problem.
As shortie says, you can obtain Professor Studd's preferred regime of Oestrogel (gel you rub on your skin) Utrogestan (micronised progesterone capsules best used vaginally) and testosterone gel from the NHS and you can even simply walk into a pharmacy in Spain while on holiday and buy Oestrogel and Utrogestan over the counter and without a prescription.
However, my personal opinion, which is based on my own experience, is that the key to success for this regime is getting the dose of each product right and for that you often need expert advice, I know I did. Obviously everyone absorbs each product differently and everyone has different tolerance levels of each product but as a general guide, women with hormonal depression and anxiety need very high doses of oestrogen to get relief. For example, GypsyRoseLee is on 4 pumps of Oestrogel everyday but I am only on 2 pumps everyday so it's a case of different doses for different problems.
Other factors also come into play i.e. how well do you tolerate progesterone? This has a huge impact on the success of any HRT regime and too much of it can drown out the positive effects of the oetrogen and ruin your regime if you are either sensitive or intolerant to progesterone used in HRT preparations. Again, how this part of your HRT is prescribed can make or break your regime.
I take it you have read Professor Studd's website and in particular the part about hormonal depression?
My advice would be to go straight for the Oestrogel/Utrogestan regime and specifically ask you doctor for it - you could also ask for testosterone but that might be more difficult. To be blunt, if you are suffering from hormonal depression and anxiety, I doubt that a continuous combined oral form of HRT will cut it - I realise many women do well on these forms of HRT but that is probably because they are just trying to control straightforward symptoms.
I think you need a regime with maximum flexibility allowing you to adjust the oestrogen dose quickly and easily which is why I would strongly recommend Oestrogel.
I'm sorry I can't advise on ADs but I do know that many women use HRT and ADs and do very well.
This is just my own personal opinion based on my past experiences. I hope that helps.
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:thankyou: Mary G
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Hi Krista
:welcomemm: from me too.
I agree with all that's been said about hormones!
The other thing is - how long have you been taking an AD? If you started before menopause or close to it and started taking it for anxiety rather than menopause ( because you and your doc didn't realise it was due to hormones) - it could have stopped you experiencing hot flushes. ADs are recognised as a prescribable non HRT for women who are medically contra-indicated for HRT eg have had breast cancer or a blood clot etc. If this is the case then the obvious signs of menopause (flushes and sweats) might be absent hence the delay in realising the cause?
If you have been taking an AD for years then the same reasoning applies and doc would not attribute your symptoms to menopause - which of course they should. HRT is the first line of treatment for menopause, not ADs - as recognised and recommended by NICE Guidelines, menopause societies and medical protocols.
Re the BHRT. The confusion arises due to the use of this term. BHRT is the name given to the treatment known as Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy - which usually consists of compounded hormones available only privately and are unregulated and very expensive. This practice arose in US where the health care system is different ( but is not FDA approved there) and certainly not recommended in UK. BHRT as a therapy as described above must be distinguished from the use of bioidentical hormones for HRT which as has already been described, is available on NHS as the 3 hormones - as shortie said earlier. Unfortunately this confusion leads women up the wrong and expensive path. As already said oestrogen and progesterone are available easily on NHS ( though some GP practices are notoriously difficult and won't prescribed them!) but testosterone can be more difficult as the only preparation readily available (testosterone gel) is not licensed for women. I had to go privately for this - and have yet to test the system by getting it on NHS.
As shortie said - start the oestrogen and progesterone first until you settle on the right regime and hopefully you can introduce testosterone.
Hopefully you will then be able to come off your AD unless this is long standing since before menopause. Incidentally what sleeping tablet do you take - is it a benzo?
Also it is absolutely fine to post the link to the article - in fact would be helpful to have on this thread as it's relevant to your story. What we're not allowed to post are commercial links or names of websites selling menopausal products especially, or seeming to promote these.
Definitely read the links to Studd's work on reproductive depression. In fact here is a starter ( look down the tabs on lhs and rhs and you will see the stuff on depression). http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
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Many GPs still believe that unless a woman reports flushes, she isn't peri or menopausal >:(. For me it was more of an all over 'glow' after my evening bath ::) which lasted about 10 mins. each evening. For about 6-9 months. Then went.
Take a list to your GP perhaps: date of LMP; symptoms you have noticed int he last 3-4 months; the symptom you struggle with the most ..... then let us know?
My docs know all about my depression and just keep giving me different pills that don't work. If only they made the connection to my menopause and at least considered that may be the cause. I mean, it may not be but I'm quite annoyed after reading up on this that the doctors haven't made a connection to at least try HRT/Oestrogel cream. They know my anxiety started three years ago. I'm 52 - how come no mention of menopause. Sure I will calm down but I'm fuming at this moment. I will definitely let you know - never had so much help from a forum before. Thankyou.
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Did you make the connection? For years my depression was cyclical .........
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Krista, you might find GypsyRoseLee's posts interesting, she suffered with hormonal depression and anxiety and has had great success with Professor Studd's regime i.e. the same as Carol Volderman. I am also using the same regime but at a different dose for different problems and have found it to be the best HRT regime by far. My problem was endless sweating and poor thermostatic control and Oestrogel has completely eradicated the problem.
As shortie says, you can obtain Professor Studd's preferred regime of Oestrogel (gel you rub on your skin) Utrogestan (micronised progesterone capsules best used vaginally) and testosterone gel from the NHS and you can even simply walk into a pharmacy in Spain while on holiday and buy Oestrogel and Utrogestan over the counter and without a prescription.
However, my personal opinion, which is based on my own experience, is that the key to success for this regime is getting the dose of each product right and for that you often need expert advice, I know I did. Obviously everyone absorbs each product differently and everyone has different tolerance levels of each product but as a general guide, women with hormonal depression and anxiety need very high doses of oestrogen to get relief. For example, GypsyRoseLee is on 4 pumps of Oestrogel everyday but I am only on 2 pumps everyday so it's a case of different doses for different problems.
Other factors also come into play i.e. how well do you tolerate progesterone? This has a huge impact on the success of any HRT regime and too much of it can drown out the positive effects of the oetrogen and ruin your regime if you are either sensitive or intolerant to progesterone used in HRT preparations. Again, how this part of your HRT is prescribed can make or break your regime.
I take it you have read Professor Studd's website and in particular the part about hormonal depression?
My advice would be to go straight for the Oestrogel/Utrogestan regime and specifically ask you doctor for it - you could also ask for testosterone but that might be more difficult. To be blunt, if you are suffering from hormonal depression and anxiety, I doubt that a continuous combined oral form of HRT will cut it - I realise many women do well on these forms of HRT but that is probably because they are just trying to control straightforward symptoms.
I think you need a regime with maximum flexibility allowing you to adjust the oestrogen dose quickly and easily which is why I would strongly recommend Oestrogel.
I'm sorry I can't advise on ADs but I do know that many women use HRT and ADs and do very well.
This is just my own personal opinion based on my past experiences. I hope that helps.
I went straight to Prof Studd's hormonal depression page yesterday. I have made a note to ask my doctor for Oestrogel and Utrogestan (and I might try my luck and ask for some Testo gel). If she's unsympathetic I will do as Shortie recommends and ask my doc to refer me to a meno clinic. This week I'm also going to look at GRL's posts.
Thing is, last month I asked them to test my hormones because in the back of my mind I was wondering if this is the issue. All my hormones came back as normal but from what I've read, this "normal" is for women of my age, but I could still be low. I'm wondering if I should ask for the numbers from my results and if they will help me work out if I am indeed low. I will look into that.
Thankyou very much indeed for your post (and all of you). I'm feeling a slight ray of hope here.
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Did you make the connection? For years my depression was cyclical .........
Yes it was me that made the connection. I remember throwing my sleeping tablets on the doc surgery floor and begging them to help me otherwise I'd take them all. Ha! I got more AD's. Still it may not be hormonal so I don't want to get too excited. The AD's haven't worked at all.
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HORMONES >:( ::)
Blood tests are reliably un-reliable ........ several are required at different times of the month because hormone levels rise and fall naturally all the while anyway ........ and at peri they become erratic :-\
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Hi Krista
:welcomemm: from me too.
I agree with all that's been said about hormones!
The other thing is - how long have you been taking an AD? If you started before menopause or close to it and started taking it for anxiety rather than menopause ( because you and your doc didn't realise it was due to hormones) - it could have stopped you experiencing hot flushes. ADs are recognised as a prescribable non HRT for women who are medically contra-indicated for HRT eg have had breast cancer or a blood clot etc. If this is the case then the obvious signs of menopause (flushes and sweats) might be absent hence the delay in realising the cause?
If you have been taking an AD for years then the same reasoning applies and doc would not attribute your symptoms to menopause - which of course they should. HRT is the first line of treatment for menopause, not ADs - as recognised and recommended by NICE Guidelines, menopause societies and medical protocols.
Re the BHRT. The confusion arises due to the use of this term. BHRT is the name given to the treatment known as Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy - which usually consists of compounded hormones available only privately and are unregulated and very expensive. This practice arose in US where the health care system is different ( but is not FDA approved there) and certainly not recommended in UK. BHRT as a therapy as described above must be distinguished from the use of bioidentical hormones for HRT which as has already been described, is available on NHS as the 3 hormones - as shortie said earlier. Unfortunately this confusion leads women up the wrong and expensive path. As already said oestrogen and progesterone are available easily on NHS ( though some GP practices are notoriously difficult and won't prescribed them!) but testosterone can be more difficult as the only preparation readily available (testosterone gel) is not licensed for women. I had to go privately for this - and have yet to test the system by getting it on NHS.
As shortie said - start the oestrogen and progesterone first until you settle on the right regime and hopefully you can introduce testosterone.
Hopefully you will then be able to come off your AD unless this is long standing since before menopause. Incidentally what sleeping tablet do you take - is it a benzo?
Also it is absolutely fine to post the link to the article - in fact would be helpful to have on this thread as it's relevant to your story. What we're not allowed to post are commercial links or names of websites selling menopausal products especially, or seeming to promote these.
Definitely read the links to Studd's work on reproductive depression. In fact here is a starter ( look down the tabs on lhs and rhs and you will see the stuff on depression). http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php
Hope this helps :)
Hurdity x
Been on Prozac for over 20 years and Amytriptiline (sp?) for around five years. I take Zopiclone sleeping tablets - just one or even half a tablet per night and I started taking them around three years ago when I got depressed. Lol! I don't think they are a benzo.
And thanks for the welcomes.
I will go and add the CV link to my post for anyone else browsing through the forums. I also read this Studd guy helped Denise Welch, plus I've read from "ordinary" women who have been to see him. Same stories: Being given AD's etc and nothing working.
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Krista - I'm a patient of Prof Studd and whilst he is probably the most eminent gynaecologist in this country and possibly Europe, he is expensive and you can bet your shirt that he'll prescribe 3 pumps Oestrogel, small blob Testim and utrogestan for 7 days. He usually puts you on this regime for 3 months and then re-assesses where you are. He also takes a full set of bloods, does a breast exam and a full X-ray for osteoporosis then and there. You wait around half an hour and all the results are in and he prescribes from there. That prescription will be sent to your GP and they won't refuse to re-prescribe when they have his recommendations.
Please don't be impressed by Z list celebrities being amongst his clients, there were a lot of 'normal' women in his waiting room when I was there.
I wouldn't usually say that private should be the first port of call for HRT as his regime is easily replicated on the NHS, however, as MaryG points out, he will eventually tailor your regime to suit you which the NHS probably won't, and given your current medication regime, I think a specialist would be a good idea for you. He will know exactly what the interactions are with each drug and how to best use them for your specific purposes.
Please bear in mind that you'll pay a lot of money for the initial consultation and will be required to visit him in London probably on a 3 monthly basis initially. He does do phone consultations but they're not as useful as face to face.
Sx
Oh God I'm not impressed by slebs he's seen. They are just the ones that have come up when I've Googled him. Couldn't care less.
I'm also not paying (yet) in excess of £700 for a consultation. Thanks to reading up on here and the great answers I've had, I'm going armed to my GP. If no luck there I might try private but cheaper and closer to home.
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HORMONES >:( ::)
Blood tests are reliably un-reliable ........ several are required at different times of the month because hormone levels rise and fall naturally all the while anyway ........ and at peri they become erratic :-\
Sorry to ask but if I go to see my doc this week and say I'd like Oestrogel is she likely to say no because my hormone tests all came back ok? If so, what should be my next move? Can I sort of demand them or will they need to do hormone tests again - but even so the results seem to be within their safe ranges.
Just taken a sleeping pill which makes me a bit high before zedding me out so hope this makes sense.
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Hi Krista
Zopiclone is not recommended for long term use as it is addictive and dependence sets in. Can I ask why you take two types of AD? The reason I ask this is because my father was severely bi-polar most of his adult life and when he had a very bad attack in his senior years, they found that many of his medications were working against each other. He had to be made an involuntary patient for 6 months. My brothers (doctors) got involved in his treatment and his whole regime was looked at and tweaked until everything worked properly. He was given vitamins and the minimum amounts of drugs needed to stabilise him. The last 15 years of his life were the very best I ever saw him. He was happy and normal. You are taking three very powerful drugs. Do you feel as though they are helping?
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Hi Shortie
Sometimes GP's are the best doctors because they deal with so much. One of my older brothers is an Emergency Medicine specialist, so he is a jack of all trades if you like. He was instrumental in getting dad's medication right when the psychiatrists and geriatric medical specialists were failing him quite badly. G.P's see everything and they hear about the side effects of all manner of medications. I was on an epilepsy medication for my migraines called Topamax. I tolerated it perfectly for 5 years and absolutely loved it. I developed a left hand tremor and all over body twitching 5 years down the track and it was my GP who picked the link, not my neurologist. I was absolutely petrified that I had developed a neurological disorder like MS or Parkinsons in my mid 40's. I was taken off the drug and all symptoms stopped within a week!
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That's great news for you but my point was that many GP's are not clued up on HRT and with alarming frequency prescribe the wrong type of HRT and as I understand it, there's an issue with oestrogen absorption and some drugs, therefore it might be prudent to speak to a specialist in HRT private or not, to ensure all the drugs and the HRT are working in harmony.
Sx
I think there is also a big difference in the standard of care between Australia and the UK from what I understand. The NHS has become quite difficult to navigate from what I read and hear. In Australia, we are far less regulated on what doctors and specialists we can see in the public system. I have private health cover along with the mandatory Medicare (public health), so I am covered every which way, but our public health system is still pretty good. I remember having a discussion with someone on an Interstitial Cystitis forum who was reliant on the NHS and I might be wrong about this but you must go to the specialist they nominate? I would love someone to clarify this for me and how your system works.
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Hi ladies
I have never suffered anxiety or depression so I have some questions. Is the anxiety and depression generalised or do you have specific thoughts that bother you? It would be interesting to know if there is a pattern.
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Hi all. I will reply later on but I have an appointment this morning with the doc. Will let you know the results.
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Katia- good post from Mary G- you can get the bio identical hormones on the NHS- they may/ may not help with your depression so sometimes an AD is needed too.
If you have any issue with your GP you could go privately - you shouldn't have to but many of us are forced down this route.
Sorry you're feeling so rubbish- hopefully you'll get a regime that works for you x
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Sorry to ask but if I go to see my doc this week and say I'd like Oestrogel is she likely to say no because my hormone tests all came back ok? If so, what should be my next move? Can I sort of demand them or will they need to do hormone tests again - but even so the results seem to be within their safe ranges.
Just taken a sleeping pill which makes me a bit high before zedding me out so hope this makes sense.
I don't think this has been answered and I expect you have been to the docs already?
Yes you should ask for the numbers and also depends what they tested. The thing is low oestrogen is normal for post-menopause and if you are experiencing symptoms which you feel are due to menopause then you are entitled to HRT. Blood tests are absolutely not necessary - you are post-menopausal so your FSH will be high and your oestrogen low. However I can see you are on a cocktail of drugs - what were you given the Amitryp for as this in a nerve pain drug? Not sure why you would have been given this as well as Prozac. I agree with whoever said these drugs may well all be interacting with each other and you definitely need specialist advice and support as to how to maybe withdraw from some of these and replace them with HRT - if they were given for menopausal symptoms.
I presume you started Prozac for reasons other than hormonal or cyclical depression as you have been on it for that length of time, so I expect you would need to continue this? Additional new onset depression/anxiety and insomnia caused by menopause needs treatment with hormones in the first instance.
I hope you are successful and do keep us posted as to the outcome of your consultations and treatment.
Hurdity x
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Sorry to ask but if I go to see my doc this week and say I'd like Oestrogel is she likely to say no because my hormone tests all came back ok? If so, what should be my next move? Can I sort of demand them or will they need to do hormone tests again - but even so the results seem to be within their safe ranges.
Just taken a sleeping pill which makes me a bit high before zedding me out so hope this makes sense.
I don't think this has been answered and I expect you have been to the docs already?
Yes you should ask for the numbers and also depends what they tested. The thing is low oestrogen is normal for post-menopause and if you are experiencing symptoms which you feel are due to menopause then you are entitled to HRT. Blood tests are absolutely not necessary - you are post-menopausal so your FSH will be high and your oestrogen low. However I can see you are on a cocktail of drugs - what were you given the Amitryp for as this in a nerve pain drug? Not sure why you would have been given this as well as Prozac. I agree with whoever said these drugs may well all be interacting with each other and you definitely need specialist advice and support as to how to maybe withdraw from some of these and replace them with HRT - if they were given for menopausal symptoms.
I presume you started Prozac for reasons other than hormonal or cyclical depression as you have been on it for that length of time, so I expect you would need to continue this? Additional new onset depression/anxiety and insomnia caused by menopause needs treatment with hormones in the first instance.
I hope you are successful and do keep us posted as to the outcome of your consultations and treatment.
Hurdity x
Hi Hurdity,
I was given Ami's for headaches due to lack of sleep, plus the doctor said they will make me drowsy so it would help with the darn insomnia too (had insomnia for years). Over the last three years I've been trying to pinpoint why I'm like this (bad anxiety) and a while ago I told my doctor I wanted to come off all my tablets because I thought (as has been said on here) that the tablets might be the issue. I was told to start lowering the dose of the Zopiclone - actually by the time I got a phone appointment (really hard to get appointments here) - well, that was just two weeks ago so am tapering the Zops down. I've read Zops can cause anxiety. So it could be the tablets or my hormones.
Sigh. Went to see a doctor that turned out to be a nurse earlier and shye was quite good. Told her I'd been reading up on menopause and anxiety. She had never heard of taking HRT for anxiety but was open to it. I told her I'd like the gel. She can't write a prescription so has made me an appointment with the doctor next Monday. She said the doctor would probably prescribe me HRT patches and she didn't think the gel would do anything. I said I needed to read up on it some more but I was pretty sure it's the gel I wanted to try. She told me to read up on it too.
She was good but never heard of HRT for menopausal anxiety. I have no idea what the difference is between HRT patches and the gel/s Mary G and others have suggested - I need to go read this thread again. And this forum in general. Got information overload at the moment but I need to know what I'm talking about and I have a week.
But at least I didn't feel like a total nerd when I saw the nurse so that's a bonus. I felt awful when I went in and she knew me from previous anxiety consultations, but she was pretty good.
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Hi ladies
I have never suffered anxiety or depression so I have some questions. Is the anxiety and depression generalised or do you have specific thoughts that bother you? It would be interesting to know if there is a pattern.
For me, I get the odd calm moment - even a calm day and I think to myself, how the heck did that happen. But most of the time it's there lurking like a knot in the tummy. Then all of a sudden I can feel my heart racing for no apparent reason. Just comes and goes but is often just sat there churning away.
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Hi Krista there are many forms of hrt,tablets,patches and gel. Some swear by each of these forms! It isn't really a case of some being better than others it's more which suits you personally. Firstly would you say...prefer just taking a simple tablet a day,or prefer to stick a patch on etc. The decision is yours everyone reacts different ::)
Pick the type you'd prefer and hopefully the gp will let you trial that one. But I advise not to get too hung up on delivery methods of I were you . Hope you find something that suits you personally soon.
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Krista, thanks for the update. I'm shocked that the nurse knew nothing about Oestrogel, it has been available for many years now. Why did she think that the gel wouldn't do anything? This is why so many of us have gone to private menopause specialists for help.
Personally, I didn't get on with a patch although I appreciate some women like them. You have to wear the patch on your backside all the time (which I didn't like) and I didn't get anything like enough oestrogen from it (confirmed in blood tests) and it would probably be difficult to achieve the very high dose of oestrogen needed for depression and anxiety even if you went to a 100mcg patch. This is why Professor Studd favours Oestrogel.
Oestrogel is a gel that you simply pump out of a container and rub onto your skin everyday and I find it flexible because you can easily adjust the dose up or down, it is easily absorbed and gave me relief very quickly - in fact, it is the only form of oestrogen that works for me.
I would definitely read up on it over the next week and take another look at Professor Studd's website.
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Thankyou thankyou thankyou everyone. I will get this sorted. If it works it will be a miracle but I have to try. If it does work for me, I will feel so bad for all those menopausal women with anxiety given AD's that aren't working for them.
This week, I will learn from this forum but I think I know what I need thanks to you Mary and everyone else.
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I've tried pill, patch and gel
Pill - this was my first hrt and it worked within days, fantastic pill , max dose and no problems until 13 later when my body rejected it
Patch - change it twice a week, estradot in my opinion is brilliant for adhesion but there's sometimes supplier issues, some flexibility with dose changes
Gel - I never liked the idea of this as I'm lazy and didn't think I'd commit to a morning regime of slapping it on but I wanted to go back to testosterone gel and so thought might as well give it a go while I'm putting on the other gel. Well I've never looked back so far. I put both on at the same time and wait and 10 mins til I get dressed. The gel is great for tapering/increasing the dose and I started off on one pump, then two and am doing ok on 2.5 but may try 3 pumps soon
It is up to you, we are all different and it is trial and error x
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shortie, I found the relevant part! Professor Studd basically thinks that Oestrogel works better than patches, particularly for women with hormonal depression and anxiety who need to achieve high blood levels of oestrogen to get relief. Patches may work well for women with moderate menopause symptoms but if you need a high dose of oestrogen, the gel generally performs better. I found patches didn't stick well and my blood levels were low even when I worked up to a 100mcg patch. I don't have hormonal depression but I need high blood levels of oestrogen to completely eradicate my sweating/themostat problems and also to counter the ill-effects of the Utrogestan phase.
I do think that Krista's nurse should have known more about hormonal depression and she should have been clued up on Oestrogel. We keep having the same debate on here about the Oestrogel/Utrogestan regime being easily available on the NHS yet we have yet another case of someone not being able to get it - well not easily anyway. The problem is, hormonal depression and anxiety needs very specific and targeted treatment whereas someone with straightforward menopause symptoms could go to their GP and get something that works immediately.
It's still seems like a bit of a gamble as to how well you get treated for the menopause on the NHS which is why I say if you can afford it, you might as well fast track by consulting a private menopause specialist.
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Every day is a learning curve ::) and hopefully as ladies become more aware of what is available, the Medical Profession will catch up ?!? We are in an age of net-working after all. I went to our Practice Nurse with a query, she looked up the info., spoke to my GP who rang me ....... Job Done.
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Every day is a learning curve ::) and hopefully as ladies become more aware of what is available, the Medical Profession will catch up ?!? We are in an age of net-working after all. I went to our Practice Nurse with a query, she looked up the info., spoke to my GP who rang me ....... Job Done.
So a Practice Nurse can do some of the traditional duties of a doctor? How does this work?
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Hi daisysareyellow- the answer broadly speaking can be yes, but it depends on the nurse and the practice! My current practice has a couple of nurses but I don't find them expert in anything much, so they just perform routine duties, blood tests etc.
At my previous practice there was a specialist nurse who dealt with the asthma clinic- she was absolutely brilliant, extremely knowledge and well qualified and the doctors just let her get on with it. This wasn't for me- it was my son. However, since moving house and to my new practice I feel we've gone back 10 years in the quality of care.
So, a CLKD says, a good practice nurse is worth their weight in gold. X
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Our Surgery employs two Nurse Practitioners who are able to prescribe in the same way as GPs. Hence : spoke to my GP who rang me ....... Job Done
The other Nurses will pop into the GP to ask questions and if necessary the GP will visit the patient in the Nurses - a phlebotomist is a member of the public who has special training ........... we are short of 1 apparently ::)
How are we all feeling this morning?
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Hi Shortie - I also found your question. :)
The nurse booked me to see a doctor next Monday so I'm going to try her/him first and if I get no luck, I will go to a meno clinic (didn't even know they existed).
I've been reading some of GRL's posts and others and am a bit worried about what kind of estrogel I will be given.
GRL says she found a pharmacy that can source the proper Besins UK pack (not sure what that is) and I want to make sure I get the right stuff but I'm a bit lost. First of all, if there's a preferred oestrogel, is it down to me to find a pharmacy to supply it?
And secondly (well, this should be my first question really) do I ask for a specific gel and if so what is it?
I'm sorry about all these questions and thanks again.
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Thankyou Shortie, it certainly does help. I will post here next Monday/Tuesday and update after my docs appointment. Fingers crossed I get the goods and will be amazing if it works. I will be gobsmacked if so. I have a funny feeling it will though as I've been reading this forum and am pretty sure my anxiety is hormonal.
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Hi everyone,
I had a fantastic lady doctor today and got my eostrogel pump. I told her about Professor Studd's regime and she wrote a prescription for four pumps a day. She has given me pregosterone (sp) tablets though but I don't know what they are as the chemist has to order them in and I can't remember what the prescription said. She also said she could give me testo gel off label but I'm to try the other meds for three months first.
She said she usually gives HRT patches and that has helped women with anxiety but she was more than happy to give me what I asked for. She also took time to talk to me.
The only thing I'm concerned about is the prog tablets as I think most women here get the cream that's put down below.
What do you think?