Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GeordieGirl on March 23, 2015, 10:12:27 AM
-
After a lot of discussion with friends and time on FB meno pages, I'm surprised (shocked?) at the kind of responses we get from our GPs. So many women seem to get totally dismissed by the first level medical profession, although I had some classic meno symptoms, I came away from my first GP with sleeping pills (not knowing myself I was menopausal). My second doctor, a Gynae doc was ready to prescribe the first box on her list, without a clue as to whether I was oestrogen / progesterone or other deficient. When I raised a lot of questions, she admitted she was out of her depth and referred me instead to a Meno clinic. I'm sure if I hadn't been so bloody persistent I'd still be getting sleeping pills prescriptions - which incidentally I haven't taken.
I've lost count of the number of friends who come back with anti depressants or even nothing at all...
Is this really so common? Would it be the same if menopause affected men ?
GG x
-
No I'm sure if it effected men directly things would be different ! I've had to go private root to get anywhere! Someone suggested telling your doctor that it is impacting severely on your marriage/ relationship husband/ partner and I think that might receive a different response!
Just to say many women on here take Hrt and anti depressant they do help some . After adamantly refusing ADS I have stared taking them and they have improved some symptoms I must say If it helps I don't care anymore WHAT I take . Xx
-
Hi GeordieGirl
you raise really good points.
I too know many friends and a couple in my immediate family who's doc's have handed out AD/Sleeping Pill's with little evidence to what they are trying to fix.
Its not something we seem to be able to do anything about other than either refuse the prescription or not take it when we have them.
I'd not want to have any mention of these drugs in my medical records either as there is still a stigma about them and it could affect insurance claims if you were "thought" to be on them at the time of an accident (even if your not taking them).
:-*
Hi Dazned
your point is good "Someone suggested telling your doctor that it is impacting severely on your marriage/ relationship husband/ partner and I think that might receive a different response!" however .....
That approach did not gain me any more empathy from my own doc.
Not sure if doc had their own marriage issues or sex life was not important to them but I received a very dismissive response on that aspect of my life.
I will not be discussing those sort of intimate details with a doc again based on my experience so far.
Imho, I think if all doc's took the approach you mention Dazned then the divorce rate amongst peri and meno affected couples would reduce drastically.
:-*
-
I think I was one of the lucky ones as I was prescribed HRT with no difficulties at all. I first talked through my issues with a nurse who advised HRT and made me an appointment with my GP. I asked for patches because of stomach issues and after a discussion was given a months supply and another appointement. After that I go every six months for a check up and a new prescription.
I have changed types of HRT a couple of times and my GP practice was supportive and interested and also changed me back when my experiments did not work.
It's not just women who are dismissed by poor GPs. A neighbour of my mother has just died of stomach cancer. He was dismissed so many times by the doctor who never investigated his problems until it was far too late.
There are good engaged GPs and poor ones whether you are male or female. It shouldn't be this way for any of us.
I really don't beleive that if men suffered meno symptoms that the treatement they received would be any different at all.
Honeybun
X
-
I have been lucky. My GP spotted some of my medical conditions before I was aware of them i.e. vaginal atrophy, because of repeated urine-type symptoms.
Menopause isn't covered at Medical School. Nor is bed-side manner apparently >:( …….. so if you have a good GP hang onto him/her.
When you say your GP is a Gyanae Dr it means that they have taken an extra exam……… doesn't mean that menopause was included in their education ::)
Pity we can't get a survey to all GP Practices as to who menopause impacts on costs and services! I think that's what drives many GPs ……. also if a lady arrives at the Appt. in tears, then the GP is going to prescribe the obvious medication: ADs.
-
On my first GP visit I was prescribed AD's and sleeping pills by a locum who I felt was not listening or caring about what I was saying. I threw the prescription away. At my next appointment a few months later I asked to see a female GP and went in and asked for HRT. Her response "I don't want to give it to you because I've had breast cancer"! What this had to do with my problems and symptoms I don't really know. At this point I insisted and she reluctantly gave me a prescription for Prempak c. My third visit a few months ago was because the Prempak did not agree with me and this time I saw a different GP again and I asked for Femoston. He told me he had no clue if Femoston was the same as Prempak and he would have to speak to the Pharmacist next door!! I came home and banged my head on several walls as you can imagine. A week later I phoned to see what his decision was and whether I could have the Femoston to be told by the receptionist that the prescription had been sitting there for days.
To say I have no faith in my GP surgery at all is an understatement!
-
I think the issue around GPs is the fact they simply can't keep up to date on things and they don't have the time in appointments to treat in a holistic way. They are expected to cover so many aspects of health and frankly problems with the menopause effects around 70 % of women yet I believe only 15-20% see their GPs for help and advice about this. It's not surprising that if a women visits her GP, is tearful and anxious but is too embarrassed to mention that they are hot and sweaty much of the time, they can't sleep because they sweat at night, the vaginal area is sore and they keep needing to pee - most GPs will just think they need some ADs. Without 'Well Women Centres' around the country that specialise in women's health issues and some decent monitoring I doubt things will improve - GPs are under too much pressure as it is. DG x
-
When you say your GP is a Gyanae Dr it means that they have taken an extra exam……… doesn't mean that menopause was included in their education ::)
I understand this now - though must admit I did have higher expectations ::) With 13 million post menopausal women you'd really expect this whole area to be studied with much more gravitas. When she admitted she didn't know much about it, I offered her a couple of key books (I'm working my way through Amazon) but instead she just asked for a summary that she could digest quickly and consider. I guess at least she has had the grace to admit when she's in unknown territory, unfortunately though I suspect a large number of patients are probably just given that first box on the list... It's so sad to see the state some women end up in because of a lack of care / interest from their GP.
I'm not sure entirely what to expect now from the Meno Clinic though am trying to keep an open mind.
GG x
-
Good luck at the clinic, it's got to be a better option and happy for you they offered this. I've 'dumped' my GP and lowered my expectations. I paid to see a private GP, not an expert on menopause but she did give me time and explanations that educated and empowered me about this phase of life. Forewarned is forearmed and when the regular GP doesn't even have the smallest 'intro speech' to begin discussing menopause it does leave us on our own somewhat.
I spoke to a friend of my late mothers yesterday and she isn't someone that uses private healthcare but told me she has been seeing a private gynaecologist every year for ten years as she got nowhere with her GP. She now budgets for this expense and her 'issues' don't intefer with her life anymore. The worry and unknowns take so much energy, communication could so easily remove this and maybe antidepressants wouldn't be needed so much!
Good luck x
-
Hi
I think you put it well GeordieGirl (13 million of us) so why can't they get it right.
Well if we do the maths we see why maybe.
13million ladies * £10 per month
£130000000
£130000000 * 12 months
so the grand total if we all went on an average cost HRT
£1560000000 or roughly £1.5 billion
Given that AD's are so much cheaper then you can quickly see how much they would save if we all went on those.
£1.5 billion would suddenly drop to 1/10 of the cost.
Thats a staggering amount of money if we were all treated by just an average HRT.
Thats not even including the amount of extra hours and monitoring required by GP's then follow ups by Doc's in specialist for the things that get picked up better.
If I recall what others have said on AD's there is precious little followup to be done.
Perhaps they are happier that we are subdued by AD's, in the dark, ignored and unaware.
:-*
-
I think the issue around GPs is the fact they simply can't keep up to date on things and they don't have the time in appointments to treat in a holistic way.
I agree but some of them seem to lack even the basic understanding of what the sex hormones do and what happens if you replace them - which I find shocking. As for reading books on it - they only need to spend a few hours reading this website which covers everything in summary - and they would have a clue. There is absolutely no excuse for them not to know the basics so that at least they can recognise the main symptoms of peri-menopause ( aside from missed periods and hot flushes) and menopause.
I know we talk about these well woman clinics a lot - and they are just so necessary and even more so as we live longer. Of course it is all a cost issue but there's nothing like putting pressure on the system to get something done which is why sites ( and forums) such as this play such an important role - only a drop in the ocean - but we will change it, bit by little bit!!!
I was lucky too - I didn't ask for HRT until I was late peri-menopause and was given what I wanted. However our GPs have changed since we moved to this area and most of the old ones are now retired - I don't know any of the new ones apart from my own (who is not v sympathetic generally) and just hoping the lovely gynae GP doesn't retire ( I've no idea if she's done another exam but she has just specalised in women's issues - when we first moved here she was the only female GP and works two afternoons per week. You can imgaine she's in great demand!).
Hurdity x
-
Hurdity I so agree with you ,I don't expect then to know everything but I do expect them to know the basic symptoms which relate to Peri/menopause even if they do not know how to treat/help it ! Then they could direct US to someone who could ,there's no shame in admitting it isn't in their knowledge ,in fact I would respect them more!
As stated all women will go through this stage of their lives some easily and some not but it's like they have never heard of it !
What I find strange is how many of us suffer this crippling anxiety,even I admit I din't realize it was part of peri and menopause until experience told me otherwise ! All they seem to focus on is hot flushes ! :-\
So sad really.
-
What questions would we put to a GP in a Survey about Menopause?
-
Do you know what are the typical symptoms of a woman suffering a "bad" or " hard " menopause ?
-
Do you have a dedicated Menopause Nurse and GP at the Practice?
-
What support do you offer to women facing early menopause?
I was reeling from shock when I realised I was peri-menopausal, but my GP couldn't have been more off-hand about it; no sympathy, no support, no advice, just 'it's part of life, get on with it'.
-
The lack of empathy and sympathy comes from the type of people who generally become doc's (not all but a huge number). IMHO brilliant minds, but what they make up in brains they often lack in empathy and common sense/touch.
Its quite shocking how many of us seem to get the same message "Just get on with it!"
Sorry but no. I won't be getting on with it >:(
But perhaps we should stop saying its natural!!!
No one says type two diabetes is natural "BUT IT IS!!".
Perhaps those suffering from type two diabetes should just "get on with it" too.
Most people who discover they are type two diabetics get there naturally and are otherwise fit and healthy without being sweet tooths or fat.
Not sure why this attitude exists for peri/meno only, but it is terrible and someone somewhere needs to do something to fix it.
Sorry for that Dorothy but the more I hear about the lack of care we get the more frustrated it makes me feel :o
:-*
-
Because menopause was un-heard of, ladies didn't live long enough: remember that women had children as the body was designed: they were either pregnant, breast feeding or having a short break before the next pregnancy so the body didn't go into menopause in the same way.
It IS NATURAL ……… tell me what medical conditions aren't :-\
-
The lack of empathy and sympathy comes from the type of people who generally become doc's (not all but a huge number). IMHO brilliant minds, but what they make up in brains they often lack in empathy and common sense/touch.
I agree. One of my friends was told at her first pregnancy scan that her baby had died...the doctor went straight from telling her that to making arrangements for removing it and talking about how soon she could start to try again. She said there was no sympathy and no understanding at all that this was her much-wanted child that had died, and that she was in shock and grieving. It was just 'get on with life' and 'try again in a few weeks'.
I can understand some people with brilliant minds can struggle with empathy, but surely there must be SOME way of encouraging them to think 'how would I feel in this situation'.
-
Bed-side manner has to be taught.
-
Dorothy,
so sorry about your friend.
Its terrible to hear about your friends treatment.
Such a horrible situation only made worse by people who can't understand the wider issues.
CKLD, I think some people are able to relate to people others cannot. I don't think it can be taught either.
Also IMHO we have to stop calling it natural :)
"It IS NATURAL ……… tell me what medical conditions aren't"
If you say its Natural and "to be expected" then don't be surprised when people ignore you or tell you to "get on with it" ???
If we treat it in the same way as diabetes or thyroid.
People need to have the same respect of peri/meno as other conditions/diseases we seem to hold with levels or support and deference that people get when they have those.
A good example is Blood pressure and rising levels as we grow older. Its natural part of growing old but you'll not find anyone getting "Just get on with it" from a doc. The doc will test, monitor and prescribe to help it even though the drugs have some bad sides effects. No lectures or prevention in prescribing is encountered either. People who have high blood pressure we feel sorry for and tend not to put under pressure, in some cases being changed roles at work or even time off work. Certainly no joke about the BP condition either.
Just a pity we can't get the same level of respect and understanding for peri/meno.
I hope you understand now why I'd rather we stopped the "natural" nonsense.
:-*
-
No I don't understand :-\ - all medical conditions are 'natural' and some will get priority, i.e. blood pressure can cause stroke so if monitored and controlled, there is less chance of someone being affected. Some medications are pushed by the Drug Companies and some the GPs get paid extra for prescribing …….. and as for BP, White Coat Syndrome can lead to un-necessary prescribing.
Often ladies present in Surgery with non-specific symptoms, i.e. weepyness, which the GP assumes is depression without searching for a basic cause. When we are feeling less than 100% we become vulnerable, I remember how difficult it was to get my points over when suffering with depression, I could hardly open my gob leave alone tell anyone how I was feeling :'(. This menopause lark lands in our laps - for me it crept up for others it can be sudden. Even though we are aware that it will happen until we begin The Change how can we know how we will be affected :-\
I learnt late on that I could empathise only when I'd been through a similar situation. Sadly it took various illnesses to make me realise that Life isn't about 'pulling ourselves together' ……… or we wouldn't require Doctors ……..
Education, education, education ?
-
Perhaps conditions such as high blood pressure and diabetes are monitored more closely because if they are neglected then there is the possibility of death.
Menopause although affecting quality of life doesnt kill you.
It is natural unlike an illness which can sometimes be prevented. All women go through this.
The medical profession should at least be taught how to deal with it.
Honeybun
X
-
Sorry but I don't see your logic in comparing our peri/meno as somehow different to other conditions you've.
Look at the protection we get from HRT that has proven the link between declining estrogen and bowel cancer??
They are starting to understand the impact to our circulation, heart and blood due to lack of estrogen.
So if we try and ignore it and "get on with it" then it too can cause serious issues that can kill us.
Bowel cancer and heart disease are awful diseases and not well screened till its too late often.
All three conditions Meno, Thyroid, BP and Diabetes don't kill us right away.
All will cause chronic issues that are painful and debilitating.
All lead to serious life threatening issues that can kill us.
I've yet to hear something who discovers they have BP or Diabetes issues "Just to get on with it" as advice from their doc???
Sorry but if we treated peri/meno in the same way as these other conditions then I think we'd be in a better place.
Trying to tough it our with this "oh we're just Naturally having a terrible time" is not working! :o
:-*
-
All three conditions Meno, Thyroid, BP and Diabetes don't kill us right away.
All will cause chronic issues that are painful and debilitating.
All lead to serious life threatening issues that can kill us.
Meno does not kill us.
It might make us feel grotty but it isn't life threatening.
-
Building a working relationship with the GP/Practice Nurse is important. It enables the patient to ask the questions but when we are vulnerable it can be hard work. Making a double appt. is important so that there ins't a feeling of being rushed in and out the door ::) and taking someone along to press for information when the patient is unable to push their symptoms across. I found it very difficult as already stated until the medication kicked in, then I went along to my GP and talked about how my illness was going to be treated.
Your argument is that menopause isn't 'natural' :-\ ………. so what is it then?
:-\ I've read my responses and I appear 'thick' ;D - probably missing your point completely ::)
-
People saying its natural leads to the position we are now in (poor, dire, undervalued, avoided, ignored, put up with etc etc).
I don't think I'm the only one that thinks there is a problem in the way we treat peri and meno.
The main problem is so many of us ladies try and push it under the "natural" carpet then fret when no one takes us seriously (when we need help often when its too late and damage has been done!).
CKLD I agree with your last posts points but people need to know its a "Serious" matter.
Certainly not the "optional" response we seem to get from people that should look after our best interests.
Its a condition that should not be reduced, undermined, ignored, joked about, avoided and more.
We ignore at our peril in haste and repent on what we could have done at our leisure.
Perhaps if we turned round to the next person suffering from high blood pressure and stated "oh its just natural and Get on with it!" and showed the same level of empathy saved for our peri/meno, then their reaction might paint the picture of whats wrong with treatment of peri/meno.
Surely you must understand that?
:-*
-
Think we are getting hung up about the word natural! Menopause is a natural part of all women's lives !
Unfortunately SOME women have a really, really bad time with it ,me being one of them !
I except menopause is natural like child birth but some are easy some are anything but !
What we shouldn't except is being treated shoddiley by gps ,through lack of knowledge or empathy. And only we can change this by getting educated ourselves and challenging this treatment,and demanding the proper respect and treatment we deserve.
-
:thankyou: Dazned
It's not easy to be ahead of menopause, i.e. we get education about periods but until meno symptoms 'hit', we don't go to our Surgery for advice before we need to. I think that once ladies begin to get to grips with their symptoms and treatment, we should go back to the Surgery and explain what is required to continue that working relationship.
-
High blood pressure/ diabetes.....can kill you.
Meno won't.......it should not be ignored or swept under a carpet but whether we like it or not its not life threatening.
Unpleasant yes....affect quality of life yes. Kill you like the other conditions you mention, most definitely not.
If it's not a natural ageing process that every woman goes through and has since we started living beyond child bearing age.....what on earth is it.
It happens for a very good reason. To stop mammals breeding.
Honeybun
X
-
Menopause may not be life threatening but it can often be life limiting - if society wants women to work longer and be productive members of society then symptoms need to be addressed. Women giving up work or limiting their lives because of meno symptoms cost the economy a great deal. Also too many women with premature menopause are not advised or treated appropriately and oestrogen deficiency before the natural age of 51 can and does lead to long term health problems that may well mean we die before our time.
It is often very difficult to build any kind of relationship with the GP these days - I've seen 4 different GPs and 2 practise nurses over the last year. DG x
-
Very well said DancingGirl, totally agree with your thoughts there. Your point on building a relationship with a doc rings true. You get a different angle/story/view/rhetoric from each :o ::)
Just to confirm also ???
High blood pressure and type two diabetes won't kill you directly!!
The secondary conditions they exerts on our bodies could kill you though.
I know someone who has had high blood pressure for 15 years now and even though the drugs don't reduce the pressure to normal levels, they are still here and living normally.
This is exactly the same with menopause to avoid the obvious here does us all disservice.
Menopause won't kill us directly but some of the secondary conditions it brings with it could kill also.
Both High BP and type two diabetes are part of aging too.
But neither are treated with the derision that we peri/meno suffer from.
This derision seems to be encountered so often and posted about here on the forum.
:-*
-
I really think that the menopause is natural and that the symptoms experienced at this time are part and parcel of an aging body. Part of the issue with GP support, in my view is that they are looking for symptoms to prescribe for, that is their job. Symptom x requires x medication and so on, the symptoms they prescribe for are in the main hot flushes and vaginal dryness. The emotional symptoms anti-depressants etc. They approach thyroid, BP and other issues in exactly the same way - long gone are the days of GP's being able, have the mind, time or financial incentive to take account of your whole body over a long period of time.
Menopause is necessary otherwise we would have a lot more babies in the world ;) Who would be the grandmothers and carers of teenagers? Also, I think we are not designed to have hormones rushing around in our bodies long term, they are growth promoters, hence the increased cancer risk as we age.
We go to our GP's and arrive here on this forum with many symptoms that we think are related to the menopause and maybe they are, but increasingly I think that we need to remember that menopause is a marker for increased arrival of other health problems, so in some ways, the GP's are correct in not attributing symptoms to menopause which is why I think the promotion and self education on correcting nutritional deficiencies, identifying food allergies, correcting thyroid problems and disturbed sleep are the way forward. The wobbly hormones are just part of a bigger picture of change, which is never going to be supported medically, as it's a gradual process.
I think a menopause nurse in every practise would be great, to give information, support and advice regarding specific changes to cycles, symptoms and also general healthcare advice for this time in life, that goes beyond our hormone levels declining.
-
Well said BrightLight! it would be great to have a menopause Nurse at least in the main practices across the UK [we have a satellite surgery and our main Practice is 4 miles away]. It would also be nice to have a Community Psychiatric Service available to, in order to tie-up anxieties regarding this time of Life. It would save time for the GPs!
-
I am in the process of changing surgeries, because they do have a nurse that offers a 'well woman' service, nothing like that at my current surgery.
Psychiatric Nurse would be another great thing - our services are not linked at all, you need to be referred by your GP and to be honest, it does work quite well, it is called the "Well Being" service and they assess your situation and need and take it from there. However the GP often knows nothing about your access of that service after he has passed you on! There lies a flaw - lack of communication and the need to explain things to your GP, whose eyes glaze over because they can't connect the dots. ;)
-
Then we'll continue to be treated like we are malingerers if we take your approaches.
Psychiatric Nurse, you go from one stigma to another >:(
Its bad enough getting ladies to the doc's without making them feel like they are psychotic ::)
Most peri/meno anxiety is tied to lack of hormones we feel and certainly not due to a lack of AD's.
It also gives us a medical record could impact our lives due to ingrained stigma around mental health issues.
How about just getting doc's to treat this condition with an even and fair hand, with the respect and empathy it requires first. Then we might not need psychiatric intervention due to extended periods of ignorance.
I agree a lot of illnesses are part and parcel of aging.
But you really didn't take on the likeness between the 3 mentioned conditions.
Two get taken seriously by the sufferer and the doctor.
One does not and that is peri/meno care.
The menopause is not necessary at all.
That would be like saying a man should stop producing sperm at 50 when his dna say he can gleeful father chidren into his later life. If logic were to apply it should be the man who stops as he's unable to work/provide for children into later life, whilst nursing/looking after babies is what grandmothers can happily do into later life.
To even say this in this way has no thought for the poor ladies who are affected earlier with peri/meno and wanted children. Perhaps they don't feel all that natural about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2617332/My-miracle-baby-20-years-I-went-menopause-aged-17-Rachel-confounds-medical-profession-giving-birth-daughter-Holly.html
Your views cause confusion on how we are treated with this condition :o
Some have so much to say about why they might not take HRT right now.
However had they had raised blood pressure then the prescription would be gladly taken without question or lectures on side effects.
In relation to the "they are growth promoters, hence the increased cancer risk as we age" what nonsense.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/misconception-about-estrogen-therapy-caused-50000-deaths-women-post-hysterectomy-247813
We can get cancer at all stages of life and for a myriad of causes most are cast earlier in our years, down to luck or lack of it (in our genes), our way of life, our circumstances even, our location can effect this and even down to whether we breast fed or not etc etc etc.
To pin the cancer on just hormones just adds to the aversion and scare stories that sometimes causes most of the damage to how peri/meno is treated.
:-*
-
Menopause is a relatively modern condition. Is it natural to get to 50 or even 60 years of age? Not that long ago we were lucky to get to 50 so the menopause wasn't an issue. Why are they having to raise the age of retirement? We are all living longer than used to be 'natural' and because we are getting better at treating age related problems this is putting enormous strain on our health system.
Bottom line is 'quality of life' and if meno symptoms prevent us from working and living life in a productive way then these symptoms need to treated. Not everyone will need or want treatment but I personally believe the benefits of offering women choices over appropriate treatment is cost effective for the economy and society as a whole. DG x
-
I think the problem with the word 'natural' is that it is often seen as something 'good'...you see slogans advertising food etc 'as nature intended'. 'Getting back to nature' etc. All lovely stuff. We don't tend to use it to describe the less pleasant things so much (so 'nature' is watching pretty birds singing in hedges, not watching a buzzard ripping another bird apart... although that is very much 'natural' too!!!) So describing menopause as natural might mean it is seen as something good or at least something that doesn't require any help?
Also, there are many, many conditions which are life-limiting, but not life shortening or life threatening which are taken seriously by GPs so I don't see that menopause should be an exception. What about the number of people who turn up with bad backs? I have a friend who regularly visits her GP with an eye problem and receives really good care.
And what about the increased risk of osteo or heart failure if you start young? Early menopause isn't a killer, but heart failure is!
-
Most anxiety is tied to lack of hormones we feel and certainly not due to a lack of AD's.
Sadly, I had my first panic attack at age 3 :'( and anxiety has plagued me since. Certainly NOT hormonally linked. Some depressive episodes however have been as I used to cry before my period started. As for the stigma of mental illness, I think this is something that will continue for many years yet!
The menopause is not necessary at all. ………. can you explain ………. I'm so pleased not to have periods any longer with the mess, cramps, over-whelming pain that I suffered every month!
-
The menopause is not necessary at all.
That would be like saying a man should stop producing sperm at 50 when his dna say he can gleeful father chidren into his later life. If logic were to apply it should be the man who stops as he's unable to work/provide for children
I can't actually beleive that anyone would think like this.
Men do not become pregnant, they do not carry the children, they do not give birth.
To be honest that statement is just....well :-\
Of course it's necessary, women are not bodily fit nor able to carry or nurture a child of their own in there late 50s or 60s.
I can't see anyone being derisive regarding HRT. I take it and have done for 5 years and very glad of it I have been.
Where is the derision regarding HRT on this forum.
Honeybun
X
-
I must admit at 48 I'm not ready to hang up my boots and open the door to osteoporosis, cardio vascular problems, brain fog and cognitive decline ....and a host of other issues caused by hormone imbalance. I aim for longevity and want to be as fit and healthy as I can.
Insulin is a hormone and the deficiency is treated without question. Thyroid likewise - although quite often it's overlooked when it should be one of the first things checked. Our bodies are controlled by a large number of different hormones and that balance keeps us fit and healthy, keeps the machine well oiled and working well. One imbalance can knock another and then we get a host of unpleasant symptoms. And the worse thing is, it's unnecessary. This isn't just menopause that's ignored but other issues too, I have friends who've suffered some debilitating issues since young adulthood and only after a number of decades was it realised hormone imbalance had an effect. Endocrinology is a specialist topic covered by few GPs, it should be a core subject imho.
How many women here were offered a hormone test before a box of pills? My GP was ready to give me any old box of tablets (and she's a woman!). Why? Why the guess work when a decent test will check not only my progesterone, oestriol, oestrone, oestradiol BUT also other hormones like DHEA and thyroid? The vast majority of our hormones start to decline from our second or third decade on.
The debate about the safety of HRT is used as an excuse for ignorance in some practices - the same practices who are happy to dole out other pills that have their own eye watering list of side effects.
It breaks my heart to read of some of the symptoms people on here are suffering, symptoms that perhaps a full hormonal profile and tailored treatment could resolve or relieve in many cases. How many people have had pregnenolone or DHEA levels checked amongst their other hormones? Surely getting it right first time would not only save the guess work and prolonged pain and anxiety of the patient, but would also be much cheaper in the longer term as there wouldn't be as much time spent on other issues.
In a world with so many options available it should be our choice whether we want to use these, and we should be given the right information by those we trust in this. Unfortunately it seems like we can rely on neither.
GG x
-
I don't agree with the statement that symptoms experienced around the time of menopause are "part and parcel of an ageing body".
That is the whole point of all of this - both men and women are subject to normal cellular, physiological and structural ageing processes, which can damage our health, and some of which are treated. Menopause is unique to women and involves a sudden loss of sex hormones and the ensuing symptoms and accelerated decline in many areas of health. It is very important in all this to distinguish between symptoms and conditions caused by menopause and those which are part of normal ageing.
I can't see how anyone can argue with this. If you like - menopause is a specific, and relatively sudden onset of part of the ageing process which can have extreme symptoms as well as negative effects on health for may years beyond the actual date of the "natural" event.
It is simply beyond belief that women are entreated by some doctors to "get on with it" because it is "natural".
Of course it is a choice - whether or not to treat the symptoms, and/or the long term conditions resulting from oestrogen deficiency - but everyone woman should be given the choice, and be fully appraised of the facts (ie the evidence we have so far) on health conditions affected by this hormone deficiency and mortality risks so as to be able to make an informed decision - and not one based on ignorance or that it's just a few hot flushes ie if you can get through it and these stop at menopause or shortly afterwards - you're off the hook and your long term health will be unaffected.
Hurdity x
-
Looks like I said something 'wrong' again - thought the topic was to consider why GP's aren't able to take on board our arrival at the surgery and adequately offer guidance and treatment and thought my suggestions were quite realistic. I wasn't referring to HRT. :)
Mental health is a stigma, a wellbeing service of psychiatric nurse or similar doesn't remotely consitute psychosis.
Accepting that we are more than our hormones is important I think, just as important as acknowledging their role, but really, it's not B&W and I think it's a bit negative to think so. There doesn't have to be a decline in health either, it's just a shift as to how our bodies operate and we need to adjust, that's all - GP's aren't that supportive. Severe symptoms or mild ones, they just don't take any of it on board.
I do happen to believe that hormonal imbalance can contribute to cell overgrowth (potentially leading to cancer) - my comment wasn't about HRT.
-
I don't agree with the statement that symptoms experienced around the time of menopause are "part and parcel of an ageing body".
Some of the symptoms experienced can be symptoms of other things, not just menopause and those things happen to occur at a similar time - that's my understanding. Each can be treated or not treated, depending on the severity. My point was that GP's don't seem that bothered about any of it, unless it's chronic or a certain severity (menopause or otherwise).
-
Dorothy, you've put it really well and hit the nail on the head the misuse of the "natural" word ;) I feel the same in the way we use Natural so generically these days from yoghurt to face creams the misuse just confuses. Hence my thought that if we put our condition inline with other conditions then we'd remove this misnomer that seems to obfuscate our real problems of peri and meno.
Limpy, perhaps you can bring more to the discussion or comment on some of the other items we're discussing. I'm certainly not shouting at anyone.
I'm discussing a view that we and others need to reassess how we view our peri/meno years to move away from the malaise we have arrived at over the years from our medical services.
From the evidence we see on the forum's "tip of the iceberg" your assumption that "they do their best" does not seem to ring true, its the 21st Century and its not good enough for us.
Look forward to your comments or suggestions to help change/make things better :)
CKLD, I've adjusted the earlier post to clarify that I'm talking about the peri/meno period.
Mental illness can strike at any age however there are clear paths to peri/meno anxiety due to changes then lack of hormones and other vit/min/chemical inbalances.
There are many posts that seem to indicate that adding hormones back via HRT or the pill can reduce or clear these feelings (without the need to have AD's)
Sorry to hear you've been so affected since an earlier age. I think a lot probably had anxiety when we were young but most of us don't remember those day. Amazed you can remember back to the age of 3 :o
As for your last post I dont really understand your point? Your just pointing out a benefit of menopause in isolation? The earlier point was we are not supposed to have children after menopause (not look forward to cessation of our monthly period)??? But you seem to have missed the point I made ???
Brightlight, your welcome to your opinions but your talking from an early point in your journey. The point I made was simply "lets not call it natural anymore" however I seem to have to defend why this might be a good idea.
You've said a few points and I disagree with your some of your points thats all :)
:-*
-
Limpy, perhaps you can bring more to the discussion or comment on some of the other items we're discussing. I'm certainly not shouting at anyone.
its not good enough for us.
Look forward to your comments or suggestions to help change/make things better :)
Offending comment removed.
BTW
its not good enough for us.
Looks like shouting to me
-
Hi Honeybun
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2369218/Worlds-oldest-mother-Rajo-Devi-Lohan-74-says-giving-birth-daughter-kept-living-longer.html
She was able to have a baby at 74 and the problems she faced at delivery could have threatened a much younger mother also. The actual problem she faced was the IVF process not that her body couldn't have the baby.
In terms of my comment on men.
In days gone by the mother would effectively be left without food and sustenance from her "male" provider.
So you'd think nature would have stopped men having the ability to father babies they could never hope to provide for.
Not sure what your point is when all I'm stating is a different slant on the idea why we have to have menopause at all.
Not sure about your comments on derision of HRT?
Was it in connection to "But neither are treated with the derision that we peri/meno suffer from."
That use of the word was in relation to how people / doc treat us.
:-*
-
Thanks but just highlighting Limpy. ;)
Great post GeordieGirl, totally agree with your points. :clapping:
:-*
-
Brightlight, your welcome to your opinions but your talking from an early point in your journey. The point I made was simply "lets not call it natural anymore" however I seem to have to defend why this might be a good idea.
You've said a few points and I disagree with your some of your points thats all :)
:-*
I am talking from an early point in my journey. Yes, and have a contribution to make about how GP's approach women with issues related to menopause. In the context of this thread, whether you or I think menopause is natural or not isn't the real point is it? The point I am reading from yourself and others is that GP's use this as a reason to dismiss. My point is the same as yours, they should not dismiss.
GeorgieGirl explains well how I think the ideal consultation, exploration and treatment would go - sadly it doesn't happen for most.
-
Think we are going to have to agree to differ.
Just thought I would join in with the shouting.....sorry highlighting
::) ;D
Honeybun
X
-
Hence we take away/stop using the "natural" reference that is misused brightlight. Simples :)
:-*
Honeybun, if the highlighting is misunderstood then perhaps we don't need the option to bold etc? I believe another post was colouring up too but hey anything that keeps people happy :beat:
Helpful link on using bold or colour or size to emphasize (not shout) ::)
http://www.netmanners.com/48/is-this-shouting-too/
-
Hence we take away/stop using the "natural" reference that is misused brightlight. Simples :)
:-*
I would agree that natural doesn't mean there are no symptoms that need treating, your opinion has come across that it is not natural full stop, not just in relation to the use of the word as a way to dismiss. Menopause is a natural phenomena, like childbirth is natural. That is not really disuputable.
-
Highlighting to me means shouting as does using capital letters.
Brightlight I totally agree with you, of course it is.
No dispute over that from me anyway.
Honeybun
X
-
I think anyone who's had a child would probably debate that childbirth is natural either :D
Personally the amount of medical help and assistance I received having children never led me to believe it was possible outside the hospital setting.
:-*
Honeybun just read the link its very informative ;)
-
Now I really have read it all.
Childbirth...not natural outside a hospital.
Going to stop now before this gets anymore ....well simply ridiculous.
I don't actually need a lesson in net matters thank you Peegeetips but thank you so much for the kind offer.
Think I will pass this time.
:-*
-
Neither of mine were born in hospital. :)
-
Natural in cause or treatment?
Childbirth is not man-made (exception is intervention as in the article you posted) and menopause is not man-made (exception as in the intervention with hysterectomy etc).
Natural means derived from nature.
-
The thread has been de-railed - the question was how do GP's respond and one of the points is that they respond poorly due to menopause being 'natural' and all of us here seem to think they need to up their game.
-
Hear hear Brightlight, you hit the nail on the head !
A lot of gps deffo need to up their game ! ;)
-
Well, after reading this thread I have to say that I've been really lucky and I'm sorry some of you have had such unpleasant experiences.
My GP took bloods after hearing my symptoms and when my results came back showing I was peri-menopausal at the age of 43 I was shown consideration and care.
I was given options on medication and advised because of my age to seriously consider HRT. My GP gave me time to have a think and on my next appointment we chatted about what would be best.
Sadly I had a negative reaction to the progeston (?) of my Evorel Sequi and had to go back. My own GP was unavailable and I saw a male doctor this time and he was fantastic as well.
He's trying me on Femosten and if I have difficulties with this, he'll refer me to the menopause clinic at the local hospital.
For the record, I am of the opinion that menopause is 100% natural...just the same as menstruation. It's a biological process, it's not man made and it happens to each and every one of us ladies.
MC.xx
-
Having to defend "yet" again on a post regarding net manners ;D
Funny but this is not the first time this nonsense gets thrown into a different view point.
I don't hear anyone with High blood pressure stating their condition "is just Natural" with such gusto as some on this forum.
Deride the comments as you may.
Some seem to ignore that people trivialize our "natural" condition and by not understanding that point is just avoiding the facts that we have problems when seeking treatment.
Perhaps the "How did your GP respond?" would be more consistent if we approached the condition with the same view as the High blood pressure one.
Perhaps our GP's would have a consistent view on what it was. No doubt they've had the same confusing discussions of what peri and meno was whilst they did their training.
As for menopause not being man made, then perhaps we should be more careful on that too ::)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150128141417.htm
???
-
Well, after reading this thread I have to say that I've been really lucky and I'm sorry some of you have had such unpleasant experiences.
My GP took bloods after hearing my symptoms and when my results came back showing I was peri-menopausal at the age of 43 I was shown consideration and care.
I was given options on medication and advised because of my age to seriously consider HRT. My GP gave me time to have a think and on my next appointment we chatted about what would be best.
Sadly I had a negative reaction to the progeston (?) of my Evorel Sequi and had to go back. My own GP was unavailable and I saw a male doctor this time and he was fantastic as well.
He's trying me on Femosten and if I have difficulties with this, he'll refer me to the menopause clinic at the local hospital.
For the record, I am of the opinion that menopause is 100% natural...just the same as menstruation. It's a biological process, it's not man made and it happens to each and every one of us ladies.
MC.xx
It's good to hear you had a good experience, sounds clear, straight forward and supportive when you needed a change and proactive too :)
-
Childbirth is not man-made
Hmm...I was never much good at biology at school, but I did think a man was involved somewhere along the line... ;D
-
Seriously, child-birth is a natural process, but when there are complications, medical intervention is needed.
Menstruating is a natural process, but if it causes life-limiting constant pain and weakness due to heavy bleeding, then you go to your GP for help.
Likewise, the menopause is a natural part of growing older, but if it causes problems that limit your life, you should be able to receive help. I don't see why it has to be treated differently to any other health issue.
Perhaps the problem may lie in the way it is seen as a problem for older women? A year before my father died, he went to his GP with some symptoms and was told 'it's your age - get used to it'. I pushed him to go for a second opinion and he was found to have had a heart attack. TWO other people were told the same thing by the same surgery that year and they were both found to have had heart attacks too. No idea how many more never went back for a second opinion... The attitude was that medical problems in anyone over 70 were the result of age and no point doing anything about it.
-
Oh stop the confusion!
If the doctors treated more of our complaints with "its just natural" response.....
Patient "doctor I have a pain!"
Doctor "oh but that is Natural, your body is just doing that naturally to make sure you avoid whats causing the pain"
Patient "what can you do about it doctor"
Doctor "oh nothing as its just a Natural response and process"
Patient "but surely you can give me something for it"
Doctor "but there are risks if I give you something for it, you might get on with your life and make it worse"
Patient "but I'm in pain, please help me"
Doctor "I'd rather not as you should be able to get on with it as its natural"
Patient "But I feel ill with it, can't you do something for me"
Doctor "there is no need to give you something as its natural and will go away by itself sometime in the future"
Patient "how long will that take"
Doctor "I can't tell you how long it will take but it will go away eventually"
Patient "but its making me feeling horrible about myself"
Doctor "oh but I can give you something for that"
Patient "please give me something"
Doctor "here is a prescription for Anti Depresants, that will make you feel much better"
Patient "but what about my pain I'll still have that"
Doctor "you'll just have to live with it but you'll feel so much better whilst you do"
So how confusing would it be if we were told many more things were just natural and "get on with it".
:-\
-
A tangent to where this thread started out, but I have to admit I'm in the "Let's-Treat-It" camp on this one.
Death is natural but over the centuries medics have sought to push this back as much as possible - and successfully too, we've a good 30 years or so on our great great grandparents. Child birth is natural, but that doesn't stop us taking pills for many decades to prevent it - and this is a factor too in the increase of our life expectancy, having 12-13 pregnancies was not only wearing for a body but often resulted in death in childbirth too.
My menopausal symptoms are mild - insomnia and my previously wild hair is thinning and actually coming under control - but I seek to balance my hormones not as a cure or a crutch for the 'change', but as preventative medicine. I don't want to be one of those old ladies bent double in pain with osteoporosis (side note - studies in Sweden on old women in care homes showed that progesterone supplements not only stopped osteoporosis but actually increased bone density). I don't want to lose my memory or reasoning skills so much so that by the time I'm 70 I'm merely a fraction of who I was. I don't want to be at greater risk of cancers or heart diseases because of a general imbalance in my system.
If I went to my GP with osteoporosis, no doubt he'd give me something to treat it. Why then when we are at greater risk of developing osteoporosis (et al), are we dismissed and told it's simply part of getting old? Surely prevention is better than cure, both for the patient but also for the cash-strapped NHS? Our system is curative rather than preventative but I'm not going to let that affect my coming years - I've far too many plans :)
Whether an individual chooses HRT, BHRT or vitamin / mineral supplements, it IS important to look after ourselves if we want to maintain our health (and sanity!) as long as possible. I like to feel good, I want to keep that feeling and not wake each day in pain due to something that may have been preventable if I'd only been given the right information by those we trust. (Although I have to say I've learned to trust them that little bit less over the last few months).
GG x
-
I've just been reading today that according to a new study conducted by the Scripps Clinic:
People who use sleeping pills have a 530% higher death risk (and a 35% higher cancer risk)
Patients who were prescribed as few as 18 sleeping pills per year had a 360% higher death risk.
I wasn't prescribed HRT when I first went to my GP, I was given sleeping pills (prescription in the bin).
Obviously HRT was too 'dangerous' an option ...hm.
I haven't seen the stats for ADs yet, but I suspect they rank somewhere above HRT too in the danger ranks.
Call me a cynic, but I don't think our general GPs approach on HRT has much to do with the real statistics at all but rather a lack of knowledge and (even more cynical?) - interest.
GG x
P.S I haven't read the report in full so can't verify how the above statistics were obtained but I suspect the general message bears weight - ie that few synthetic drugs are without side effects, and the ones often fobbed off on us can be amongst the worst.
-
::) …….. now I've got to go back and read what I've writ ……… 'cos Meno Brain me can't remember what day it is leave alone much else :D ……
I have decided that when I next make an appt. with my GP or Practice Nurse that I will say 'thank you' for being supportive and add that some GPs do not give sympathy etc. and what can the BMA do about it ……… ;)
Off for a browse
Right - I was born under weight and should not have survived but with intervention I did. Forutnately it didn't leave me with too many health problems other than the phobia which has ruined some of my Life. It causes huge anxiety and restricts much of what I do. So although anxiety is 'natural' and I am aware of why it happens but it is over-whelming.
Fortunately my GP has been wonderful. He has tried every which way to help all of the medical conditions that I have fetched up in the Surgery with. Sometimes he's been a bit 'short' or not explained in a way I could understand so I have made another appt., taken my list of queries and gone in saying 'I was not listening properly last time, could we go through it again'. Maybe because I am a medical secretary that I can be more forceful ………. he's thinking of retiring :-\
Education, education, education ……… communication, communication etc. etc. etc..
It's not only menopause sadly, I've heard a couple of horror stories in the last couple of months that would make you stay in bed for ever >:(
-
I don't think anyone here is saying dont treat hormonal imbalances rather we are agreeing that GP's don't know enough and the options offered are confusing at times.
I want to treat my health in a preventative way and with a positive attitude, I'm finding that pretty hard amongst the culture that exists around healthcare and the menopause. I'm glad I didn't take HRT when first offered, it wasn't appropriate for me at that time. It's clear to me that we have a long way to go in getting the best treatment for hormone imbalances and a better understanding of individual need and subsequent treatment.
I still feel complementary medicine and the practitioners within it are ahead of the game in some respects, treating the individual. Those that combine that with good use of HRT or mainstream medical professionals that look closely at the individual seem to be the two situations I have found that are helping.
Being too simplistic about menopause seems to be a big issue for those that struggle with it. Giving out HRT or Anti depressants without due care seems a bit concerning to me.
-
Hi Brightlight
"Being too simplistic about menopause seems to be a big issue for those that struggle with it."
I have no idea what you are pointing out with that? Can you explain...
:-*
-
Peegeetip GP's saying its natural, not listening to symptoms, not explaining things, not taking into account other things going on that might not be directly related to menopause. Taking a 'blanket' approach to treatment without much follow up or communication. Generally the things people have expressed are lacking in the responses they have had from GP's where they felt unhappy with the 'service'
-
::) …….
Education, education, education ……… communication, communication etc. etc. etc..
It's not only menopause sadly, I've heard a couple of horror stories in the last couple of months that would make you stay in bed for ever >:(
Those two things are so key. Education and communication and I too have recent experience of friends that have received inadequate diagnosis and care resulting in major ill health.
Sounds like you have created good relationships with your GP's, it takes time I guess and the right one. I've had that before just not my current GP
-
thanks Brightlight :-* that sounds like we'd all be better off for that.
I think your two post's summarize things really well
:-*
-
Just found out that my surgery is looking for volunteers to form a patient's type forum with meetings to be held 4 times a year with practice manager ! Hmmm I can see I might just be tempted, when I go over tomorrow to get my prescriptions think I will ask more about it ;) :whist:
-
dazned - that sounds like a very positive thing to be part of. At least your GP surgery is trying to get things right.
I think this post has raised some good points. GPs are human and of course there are extremes of good and bad and doctors can have their off days. I think my current GP practise is quite good on the whole - they actually saved my neighbour's life 3 weeks ago. She went in with a pain in her back and the pain had penetrated through to her stomach. The GP she saw immediately recognised it was serious and phoned the local casualty department to have her scanned a.s.a.p. - my neighbour is a very fit, slim, 57 year old with no health issues and it turned out she had a dissected aortic aneurism. She had a seven hour operation and is now back home recovering.
I am seeing one of the lady doctors about my HRT after seeing a gynae privately(which this GP thought was a good idea) and she is following the instructions from this gynae. One of the practise nurses I saw once made some rather personal and inappropriate comments that I didn't like - won't be seeing her again - but I do feel I am fortunate now as, in the past, I've had some rather negative experiences with GPs.
My view is that they can't be expected to know everything and sadly cost is an issue and ADs are cheaper than HRT.
RE the safety of ADs - I was prescribed them once and my local chemist who knew me quite well actually printed out the information about these ADs and strongly recommended I read the info first before taking them.
I know many people are fine on ADs but the side effects can be horrific - one certainly shouldn't drive a car until you are sure you are not feeling sedated! At the time I had small children and often driving other peoples kids to and from school. The GP didn't mention that I might not be safe to drive when on this drug!!!!
DG x
-
Well my surgery was a family doctors practice, one man started it off and he slowly built it up,he started off in an annex connected to his house and his wife was the practice nurse ! Those were the days! Sadly he passed away and for about 2 years all we had were logins,then another doctor bought it out ,he was awful and the other doctor's eventually "got him out" Now it has been taken over by a medical firm ! So that means a practise manager runs it so we know that means budgets are the most important thing ,well the bottom line is,so maybe they do need keeping an eye on by members of the public.
-
Hi DancingGirl
I mentioned the concerns about driving and AD's on an earlier post.
So sorry you encountered the problem with the practice nurse.
They really should know better. I wonder if the comments were similar to those I experienced from my doc.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,25993.msg400301.html#msg400301
I'd not take the chance with insurance companies as they try and avoid paying for any excuse these day.
http://www.rethink.org/resources/d/driving-and-mental-illness-factsheet
Sounds like a great opportunity Dazned, hope it gives you some input to improve things if you get in.
:-*
-
After some recent appointments of late I will probably be banned ;D
But I will ask !
-
It doesn't matter who 'owns' the Practice, it will be under Government Guidelines. Practice Managers won't be any different than how GPs ran Surgeries years ago, but they are the front line for budgets, staffing etc., allowing GPs to 'get on'. Our Manager has done a good job so far and we have Nurses with varying extra qualifications, including being able to Prescribe. This leaves GPs to see patients and if necessary, the Nurse will nip into the room in-between to ask.
I informed my Insurance Company abut the medication prescribed for depression and anxiety and was told they didn't need to know ::) - however, I know when I'm not safe to drive. So I don't. As for GPs prescribing 'without due care' …… they will be aware of side-effects and they will be aware that side-effects don't affect everyone, apparently there is a 'yellow' report card but I've never been offered one to fill in ::).
-
I have just been back to my GP for a final appointment before moving...as you may know, they have been the reverse of helpful in the past. Same result this time, but thought I would share her parting comment with you. She hopes that when I move, I will find a GP that is interested in 'that sort of thing' (i.e. early menopause) >:( Can you imagine having that response about any other issue? I give up! ::)
-
"'that sort of thing' (i.e. early menopause) >:( Can you imagine having that response about any other issue? I give up! ::)"
This is what I've been saying earlier in the post!
Don't give up >:( but I hope you gave her a mouthful!
This is exactly why I have my stance on why we should be so careful how we label ourselves.
We have a condition pure and simple, now treat me if I ask Doc! "do get on!"
Anything else just confuses people including the doc's.
;)
-
"'that sort of thing' (i.e. early menopause) >:( Can you imagine having that response about any other issue?
That sort of response is given in respect to other issues.
OH has had a neurological eye issue, he has had "What do you want me to do about it?"
Also, "I know nothing about this sort of thing, good luck with finding a specialist"
That type of response isn't limited to meno.
GPs have to have a very broad spectrum of knowledge, perhaps not surprising they fall down in some areas.
-
No bed-side manner there then >:( ……….
-
No bed-side manner there then >:( ……….
That's true - However the GP in question wasn't well at the time, died of pancreatic cancer a couple of years later.
GPs are people they can feel c--- like we do.
-
Yep - they may have given bad news to the previous patient or support due to bereavement ……… which is why it is important to build a working relationship …….
-
It was actually the tone of her voice when she said 'interested in that sort of thing' that got me...she made it sound like she was talking about a taste for x-rated films or top-shelf magazines, not a health concern!!! She even screwed her face up as if she was talking about something distasteful >:(
-
In the wrong Job ??? ………..
-
It was actually the tone of her voice when she said 'interested in that sort of thing' that got me...she made it sound like she was talking about a taste for x-rated films or top-shelf magazines, not a health concern!!! She even screwed her face up as if she was talking about something distasteful >:(
I wonder how interested she'll be when it affects her.... Hm. Is it bad to hope she has a rough time of it, just to make sure she finally realises what her patients have been putting up with?
GG x
-
Not at all, that crossed my mind: however, she'll probably be long retired by then >:( ……… and perhaps she'll
have a GP of similar ilk
-
Well I asked about the patient participation group they said leave your name and number they would ring ,still waiting ! ;D
-
You may have to wait until there's been a meeting to get approval for you to join ;D
-
My experience, in Australia, is that doctors are quite positive about using HRT. I got a good response from my then GP when it became apparent that all my insomnia problems were being caused by menopause. She immediately gave me a prescription for HRT. However, I was the negative one because I had been fooled by all the media scaremongering, and was totally convinced that conventional HRT was going to kill me, so I threw the prescription out.
Instead I opted to go the compounded hormone cream route, and that was a total disaster. Then I thought going to a naturopath was a good idea – another complete disaster. Eventually I relented and actually started to do some proper research on conventional HRT and found that all the scaremongers and advocates of compounded hormones and alternative therapies are, IMO, people who love to play on women's insecurities so they can make money.
I went to a different GP and was put on to conventional HRT straight away. However, my problems weren't over because due to the 2 total disasters I went through I had become dependent on diazepam, and believe me coming off that is no picnic at all, because benzodiazepines and hormones, especially progestogens, do not play well together. I went through almost 2 years of tapering off diazepam, and it was horrible, but things are great now.
Incidentally, menopause may not be life threatening, but the fall out from it can be. During my trials I was definitely suicidal. Had I not eventually gotten things sorted out, I honestly have no idea what would have happened to me.
-
I went to a different GP and was put on to conventional HRT straight away. However, my problems weren't over because due to the 2 total disasters I went through I had become dependent on diazepam, and believe me coming off that is no picnic at all, because benzodiazepines and hormones, especially progestogens, do not play well together. I went through almost 2 years of tapering off diazepam, and it was horrible, but things are great now.
Incidentally, menopause may not be life threatening, but the fall out from it can be. During my trials I was definitely suicidal. Had I not eventually gotten things sorted out, I honestly have no idea what would have happened to me.
What on earth is a naturopath doing putting you on a drug like diazepam? A complete contradiction to what they should be doing.
Compounded hormones are actually no different in molecular structure to some of the bio identicals offered in a box - the drugs companies recognise there is a call for bio identicals (especially in mainland Europe) and there are a number of these on offer (some which are successfully used by many on here) Utrogestan for example, Oestrogel, Hormonin. The only difference is the compounding is meant to tailor the treatment to the individual rather than use a standard approach - that usually means close monitoring and adapting the dose until it's right. The dosage is key - how many threads on here discuss issues with one dose or drug but that changing completely when the dose is altered. Unfortunately though the hormone testing doesn't always follow within the UK NHS - a shame as I suspect it would give us so much information.
I've had a colonoscopy this week and the hospital team were alarmed at my low heart rate - so much so they wouldn't proceed until they'd given me an ECG. I was then denied sedation on the back of it and left with a set of graphs to give my GP and a note about left ventricular action. Of course I've headed to Google (and some of the books I've amassed ) and have read in a clinical report that "epidemiological data shows that hypothyroidism may be the only cause of left ventricular diastolic function". The symptoms of hypothyroidism match very closely those I discussed with my GP back in December, where I left with sleeping pills. (Though there are probably a number of hormones at play as oestrogen and progesterone feature largely too). I well understand the dangers of reading too much on these things and putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 but in the absence of a GP team who pick up on these things I really feel I have no option but to research as much as I can so I won't be fobbed off. I've a GP appointment this morning to discuss the ECG results, let's see where that leads.
GG x
-
My husband has a 'normal' low heart beat and his heart also skips and jumps around a bit ::). Once he lost the weight at least the holding his breath in the early hours stopped ……...
-
I've always had a low heart rate (doctors have often asked if I'm an athlete - ha, ha!) but it's now close to the red zone. To be honest I feel fit and healthy and don't think there's anything majorly wrong with me that the odd little hormone boost won't correct. I've printed off a whole load of stuff from a Thyroid charity to take with me to my appointment in support.
GG X
-
Geordiegirl - most of the oestrogens in HRT are bio-identical (estradiol) or converted quickly to bio estradiol (such as estradiol valertae). It's only the PRE ones that aren't ie horse oestrogens.
All the progestogens licensed for HRT are synthetic except for utrogestan, but progesterone is also available as Crinone gel and Cyclogest - for fertility but sometimes prescribed off licence for hRT.
All the local oestrogens are bio-identical. :)
Hurdity x
-
I went to a different GP and was put on to conventional HRT straight away. However, my problems weren't over because due to the 2 total disasters I went through I had become dependent on diazepam, and believe me coming off that is no picnic at all, because benzodiazepines and hormones, especially progestogens, do not play well together. I went through almost 2 years of tapering off diazepam, and it was horrible, but things are great now.
Incidentally, menopause may not be life threatening, but the fall out from it can be. During my trials I was definitely suicidal. Had I not eventually gotten things sorted out, I honestly have no idea what would have happened to me.
What on earth is a naturopath doing putting you on a drug like diazepam? A complete contradiction to what they should be doing.
Compounded hormones are actually no different in molecular structure to some of the bio identicals offered in a box - the drugs companies recognise there is a call for bio identicals (especially in mainland Europe) and there are a number of these on offer (some which are successfully used by many on here) Utrogestan for example, Oestrogel, Hormonin. The only difference is the compounding is meant to tailor the treatment to the individual rather than use a standard approach - that usually means close monitoring and adapting the dose until it's right. The dosage is key - how many threads on here discuss issues with one dose or drug but that changing completely when the dose is altered. Unfortunately though the hormone testing doesn't always follow within the UK NHS - a shame as I suspect it would give us so much information.
I've had a colonoscopy this week and the hospital team were alarmed at my low heart rate - so much so they wouldn't proceed until they'd given me an ECG. I was then denied sedation on the back of it and left with a set of graphs to give my GP and a note about left ventricular action. Of course I've headed to Google (and some of the books I've amassed ) and have read in a clinical report that "epidemiological data shows that hypothyroidism may be the only cause of left ventricular diastolic function". The symptoms of hypothyroidism match very closely those I discussed with my GP back in December, where I left with sleeping pills. (Though there are probably a number of hormones at play as oestrogen and progesterone feature largely too). I well understand the dangers of reading too much on these things and putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 but in the absence of a GP team who pick up on these things I really feel I have no option but to research as much as I can so I won't be fobbed off. I've a GP appointment this morning to discuss the ECG results, let's see where that leads.
GG x
It wasn't the naturopath who put me on diazepam. It was the idiot doctor who put me on compounded hormones. However, the naturopath also inflicted enough of a disaster on me all on her own.
We will obviously have to agree to disagree about compounded hormones. Saying that compounded hormones is the only way of "tailor" making hormone prescriptions, is just one more myth that those who advocate compounded hormones tell you. You can just as easily "tailor" make your own hormone doses by using conventional patches or gels, and many women already do that by tweaking their daily dose of (eg) estradiol gel.
Also, the base ingredients used by the compounders comes from - guess where - that's right - the pharma companies who also produce conventional HRT using estradiol and progesterone. So if they are using exactly the same base ingredients, what's the point? You are paying a lot more for them, there is no added advantage of "tailor" making your prescription, and there are no studies that have shown that using progesterone as a cream will protect the uterus. Numerous menopause societies around the world warn against using compounded hormones, and I have already posted some of those links.
"Bioidentical" is not a scientific word. It's become a buzz word used by the compounders. Compounding is no guarantee you are getting something better. In fact, you are at the mercy of one or perhaps two compounders (if that particular pharmacy has a check system in place, and there is no guarantee of that) that your prescription will be made correctly.
-
A bit of a tangent to where this threat started out but as we're here.....It seems like the term bio-identical can be contentious, when in fact as Hurdity points out, a lot of branded drugs are bio-identical too. The comprehensive list below is from the Surmeno site and is a good reference guide.
OESTROGEN:
Oral human-identicals:
Biestrogen ("Bi-est")
Estrace and its generics
Femtrace
Gynodiol
Triestrogen ("Tri-est")
Oral synthetics:
Cenestin
Enjuvia
Estinyl
Estratab
Menest
Ogen
Ortho-Est
Premarin
Transbuccal human-identicals:
compounded troches or oil drops
Estrace and its generics
Transdermal human-identicals:
Alora
Climara
Divigel
Elestrin
Esclim
Estraderm
Estrasorb
EstroGel
Evamist
FemPatch
Menostar
Minivelle
various compounded estrogens
Vivelle
Vivelle Dot
Transdermal synthetics:
none
Vaginal human-identicals:
Vagifem
Estring
Estrace cream
Femring
Vaginal synthetics:
Ogen cream
Premarin cream
PROGESTERONE / PROGESTIN
Oral progestins (synthetic):
Amen
Aygestin
Curretab
Cycrin
Megace
Ortho-Micronor
Nor-QD
Provera
Oral progesterone (human-identical):
Prometrium
compounded capsule
Intrauterine progestin:
Mirena
Transdermal/ Transbuccal Progesterone (human-identical):
compounded cream/gel/troche
Endometrin
Prochieve (ex-Crinone)
Progestin injection (synthetic):
Depo-provera
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect the list probably needs updating (I can't see Utrogestan on there) but it's useful all the same, more so than some medical sites. My doctor refers to the GPNotebook site (a Univadis site) which is anything but comprehensive on this subject. In fact the most recent information showing on Univadia is a Lancet report from February with the title " Even short term HRT can cause ovarian cancer" (oestrogen plus progestogen -synthetic). If our GPs are being bombarded with this information without having an in depth understanding of menopause and HRT it's little wonder so many women simply get fobbed off.
GG x
-
Geordiegirl - I'm afraid this is probably an American list as many of the names are different here in the UK e.g. Prometrium is called Utrogestan here in the UK - many of the things on that list are not available here. DG x
-
Geordiegirl - I'm afraid this is probably an American list as many of the names are different here in the UK e.g. Prometrium is called Utrogestan here in the UK - many of the things on that list are not available here. DG x
Aha, that's why Utrogestan wasn't on the list! I did google a number of the others and found them on the NHS list but didn't go through the list in its entirety. It is however reassuring that such a wide number of preparations are available though from the pharmaceuticals and they don't just insist on their own patented drugs.
GG x
-
Going back to the question posed for this thread, I thought I'd tell you about an article I read in the Sunday Times today. The trend for not giving specific appointments in advance at many GP practices is being widely rolled out to help many surgeries cope with the pressure. GP practises are adopting the strategy of telephone triage which means you receive a call from the GP and the GP will only ask you to come in that day if they feel they need to see you after discussing things on the phone. I can see the sense of this for certain occasions and preventing the need for many patients to actually make the trip to the surgery but you may not get to see the same GP each time and if you have an ongoing issue you may not get the continuity of care. This system is basically turning GPs into casualty departments. If you need to sit down to discuss things quietly with a doctor you know and trust it will be virtually impossible. The article did raise concerns about this strategy but I can see this being adopted quite readily as it whisks people through quickly. Apparently this approach can save a GP surgery around £30,00 a year!!!!! The notion that we can have a doctor or nurse in each practise to discuss our concerns around menopausal symptoms may well be a pipe dream. DG x
-
It was also reported that some people have been taking up appointments with requests for toilet rolls on prescription, something to give them shiny hair before they went on holiday, asking why they had sore legs after wearing high heels. The list was endless and ridiculous.
Perhaps if that kind of person thought before taking an appointment from someone in genuine need.
You can hardly blame GPs from trying to weed out the idiotic ones.
It's the same with A&E departments.....a lot of the people that turn up could have waited to see a GP.
Maybe some education is required as to when a visit to a doctor is appropriate otherwise we all suffer.
Bet if they had to pay it wouldn't happen nearly as much.
Honeyb
x
-
honeybun - I personally think there is a good argument for introducing a fee for a GP appointment and I think many GPs would support this as well. I think many women don't see their GPs regarding problems with meno symptoms because they feel they shouldn't 'bother' the GP about something that is supposed to be 'natural' and just tolerated. If we paid a small fee then we might feel we were being less of a bother. When I paid for the private consultation with a gynae it was so much easier because I felt I was entitled to the doctor's attention and time instead of taking up the time of an overworked NHS doctor that should be seeing someone with a more serious condition. DG x
-
At one time you were asked by the receptionist what the appointment was for.....I didn't agree with that but perhaps a nurse who screened calls would be a good idea.
The older generation which I guess now includes us does not like to bother the doctor but some of the younger generation obviously does not see it like that.
The whole system needs changing.
Minor complaints, coughs colds sore throats could be dealt with by nurses leaving the GP to deal with more relevant things.
Honeyb
x
-
It's exactly because treatment is 'free at point of delivery' that so many people end up asking for silly requests. When Mum was a child a fee was paid to the visiting Doctor, one rarely saw a Doctor in the Surgery unless it was for ulcer care etc.. Then the NHS was developed, never knowing how far technology would jump in that short time nor realising how much the publics' need of cures etc. would be expected.
Our receptionist would ask why we wanted to see the GP, I would say 'the usual' and yes I need to see a GP ………. now we can make appts on line but I've forgotten my password ::)
-
It was also reported that some people have been taking up appointments with requests for toilet rolls on prescription, something to give them shiny hair before they went on holiday, asking why they had sore legs after wearing high heels. The list was endless and ridiculous.
I was quite cross when the receptionist asked me in front of crowded surgery what I'd come for and whether I needed the appointment but I guess given the above it's understandable that they try and weed out timewasters. I really did want to shout out something that would make them blush though (along the lines of "My f*nny's disappearing !" ) but thought better of it as I'm sure I'd have ended up on our town's Facebook group :)
That said, I'm not in favour of paying for appointments as a lot of needy people simply won't be able to afford it or will be put off by the charges. My mum has a host of health problems, like many 84 year olds, so I'd dread to think how much she'd be paying out each week.
GG x
-
Just like many other things, charges would only apply for those who can afford it. Possibly over 65s or if on a low pension or social security the charges would be except. DG x
-
Walk in units would be a great idea, staffed by nurses. it could cut down time wasters and free up doctors. Some people just don't think to be honest.
The list of things quoted in the papers that people went to see a doctor about was just madness. You couldn't make it up.
Honeyb
x
-
I think people should make more use of their pharmacists who are very knowledgeable,more than some doctors! For colds,flies,ear aches,infected cuts,minor things like that. That would free up the health service somewhat.
-
Pharamacists now hav 'private' discussion rooms ;)
-
I've worked as a doctors receptionist for four years and can't believe the 'illnesses' people want to see their gp for.
We run a triage system and 'on the day' need to be seen appointments, we are also told to ask patients to explain briefly why they need to see their gp, something I hate doing but I can see why we are asked to do it. Trouble is patients know the system and how to work it!
You wouldn't believe the amount of people that ask to be triaged and then don't answer their phone when the doctor calls them, wasting yet more time that could be used for the genuine patients.
-
…….. as well as those that make appts. but don't cancel if no longer required >:( - that's GP/Dentists, Hospitals/Vets..
-
I can guarantee that each of our gp's and nurses have at least one no show a day. Four gp's and three nurses that's on average 35 or so wasted appointments each week >:(
-
My last GP (my family doctor for 17 years) ran a surgery where you simply turned up and waited. You could end up in a long queue, particularly on Monday, but you were guaranteed to be seen that day. Unfortunately he's now retired and appointments can take 2 weeks plus, even for the nurses - I have an appointment to see the nurse for a follow up ECG and it's 20th April, nearly a month ahead. When my symptoms started to really show themselves I first had a telephone call with Gynae Doc (a week's wait), followed by an appointment 2 weeks later(no HRT), followed by another appointment 3 weeks later (no HRT), followed by another telephone call admitting she was out of her depth and referring me to a Meno Clinic. This whole episode took 7 weeks start to finish and God knows when the clinic appointment will appear. By all means operate a triage system but at our surgery it simply to be pushing back patients. I've since seen another doctor about my heart rate and of course he knew little of what else was bothering me.
I much prefer to get to know my doctor rather than be pushed from pillar to post with locums or impersonal calls, I don't know whether the new system in our surgery is just a very poor example or whether this is the way things are run now. Sad if it is as you spend half the appointment bringing the doctor up to date.
GG x
-
It's happening all over the UK apparently. Plus the fact that SHO's aren't joining up as GPs after they do their rotations …… it will get worse.