Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: CLKD on January 08, 2015, 01:16:20 PM
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Does anyone have the 'right to insult' as has been reported from Paris a few moments ago by the late Editor ? surely that is bullying …… anyone who is 'taking the ???' out of other cultures I think are 'sick', this is beyond Freedom of Speech. To me this seems like playground bullying against people who appear different :-\ …….. Freedom of Speech should not be taken for granted, people went to War to enable us to say what we feel but with this freedom, each of us should take responsibility and care in who we aim our words at!
Won't do the Tourist industry any good either …….
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True, but still no excuse to go killing folk. Just goes to show that we need to be more aware of possible attacks. I know they've upped the UK risk factor to severe, but we never really know where, when & how these attacks will happen.
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But why should one group of journalists be allowed to negate what others' believe :-\ ……. in the 'sake' of satire which is after all, sarcasm which is …………
No one likes to be insulted and no one has the 'right' to insult others what ever form it is supposedly in.
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And why should one fanatical group slaughter others in the name of religion. If most people are offended by something they can protest in a peaceful way.
These people are murdering thousands world wide as they see us as being worth nothing.
They,as Islamists want to take over huge parts of the world and no one is allowed to disagree with what they see as right.
Honeyb
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Joan was burned at the stake :-\
Someone was burned in Saffron Walden for their belief in 1555
From when time began:
"In the cool of the evening they used to gather beneath the stars, in the meadow, circled near an old oak tree. At the times appointed by the seasons of the earth and the phases of the moon.
"In the centre often stood a woman, equal to the others and respected for her worth. One of the many we call the witches, the healers and the teachers of the wisdom of the earth.
"People grew in the knowledge she gave them, herbs to heal their bodies spells to make their spirits whole. Hear them chanting, healing incantations-calling for the wise ones celebrating in dance and song.
ISIS-ASTARTE-DIANA-HECATI-DEMETER-KALI-INANNA
"There were those who came to power through domination, bonded in their worship of a dead man on the cross. They sought control over all people, demanding allegiance to the church of Rome.
"The pope commenced the inquisition – a war against women whose powers were feared. In this holocaust, this century of evil, nine million European women died.
"The tale is told of those who by the hundreds, holding hands together chose their deaths in the sea. Chanting the praises of the mother goddess, a refusal of betrayal, women were dying to be free.
ISIS-ASTARTE-DIANA-HECATI-DEMETER-KALI-INANNA
"Now the Earth is a witch, we still burn her, stripping her down with mining and the poison of our wars. Still to us, the Earth is still a healer; a teacher; a Mother and weaver of a web that keeps us all alive.
"She gives us the wisdom to see through the chaos, she gives us the courage, it is our will to survive.
ISIS-ASTARTE-DIANA-HECATI-DEMETER-KALI-INNANNA."
Roy Bailey of Nottingham, England recorded this song having learned it from the writer Charlie Murphy of California. Martha McClelland of Derry heard Roy's version and passed it on to my sister Terry Moore in Co. Kildare. She rightly thought the song would appeal to me and I began singing it in the early 90s. I have recorded it on three separate occasions finally getting it done to my own satisfaction on “Burning Times†in 2005. Like many songs and poems it does not look great on the page but comes to life when the air is blown into it. Then the beauty of the words, tho' awful betimes, sail out and create imagery that never fails to stir me as the song gets sung. We are destroying that which sustains us, as sure as the sun has gone down this night. It feels to me like we are past the point of no return so let us sing and dance as if there were no tomorrow.
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What makes me despair is that these Islamic terrorists contribute nothing to their people or culture, what do they want except to kill innocent people. I bet they all own smart phones and the trappings of the western society that they all seem to despise.
High on drugs and brain washing or else how could they do what they do. No one in the West is attacking them why can't they leave us in peace.
Sort out their own problems start contributing to society and their people who need help and stability and stop the fighting between themselves that has gone on for centuries.
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Let them set up a state and run it as they wish. Let whoever wants to go and live there. Leave us alone for heavens sake.
It's not a culture I would want to be part of as women are seen as property and have no rights at all but if that's what the people of that religion want then let them get on with it.
I don't think I will be alone in choosing what I say very carefully as I don't want to offend.
Honeyb
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Walked across Trafalgar Square on my way home this evening and there is a very moving tribute to the slaughtered journalists. There is a large circle on the ground formed from hundreds of pens and pencils and the centre is filled with flowers and messages. It is very simple but very moving.
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Jesus gave his disciples an eleventh commandment - "Love one another as I have loved you." Oh, what a challenge.
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Don't think the Islamists quite think that way.... :-\
Honeyb
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'We' went on the Crusades …….. to make people turn to Christianity …….. we had a strict Catholic Faith followed by ……. upheaval :-\ ……….. and even within those Faiths they can't agree so we get Methodists, Weslians, Baptists, Calvanists ::) …….. man wants control over other men and women are caught between ……..
Is there any culture that doesn't have a 'faith' to adhere to ……… I'm a tree hugger and I worship the Sun which can give Life or take it away and I can see it!
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Walked across Trafalgar Square on my way home this evening and there is a very moving tribute to the slaughtered journalists. There is a large circle on the ground formed from hundreds of pens and pencils and the centre is filled with flowers and messages. It is very simple but very moving.
I saw that yesterday too. I went to the National Gallery to look at something beautiful as was becoming too upset by the news. OH comes from a muslim family, although he is entirely secular (his family aren't). We are both outraged by yet another vicious attack by these evil people in the name of their warped ideology. Another fundamentalist idiot has just taken people hostage in a kosher supermarket in another part of Paris, while the original 2 terrorists are holed up under siege, holding some poor print shop owner or worker hostage.
I can't work out Twitter (wish I could) but I did see this from Uderzo, the Asterix cartoonist, and I love it
https://twitter.com/asterixofficiel/status/553149107888738304/photo/1
hope the link works.
If anyone knows if here in London we are having a silent march to coincide with the one in Paris on Sunday, please post? Apparently the last one was organised via Facebook and I'm not on FB.
Charlie Hebdo's late editor's GF was interviewed and said she isn't pleased by the hashtag Je Suis Charlie and the protests, because the person dearest to her in life was gone.
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No one likes to be insulted and no one has the 'right' to insult others what ever form it is supposedly in.
Oh - It was OK to go and murder the journalists was it?
After all, their religion had been laughed at, so that makes it all acceptable..........
If they don't like the culture they should live in one they find acceptable rather than kill people who displease them.
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Well said Limpy and all done without sweary words.
It's about time we stood up to these animals and sent them to live somewhere they find acceptable to them.
Honeyb
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That won't happen. The World is too mobile physically, monetarily and the use of FaceBook etc. makes it almost impossible to track down anyone planning attacks because word spreads so fast :'(
It is what it is. How do you feel if insulted? Really, deeply, inside .......
Many people are writing that freedom of speech comes with responsibility. No one has the 'right' to offend others, by killing someone this has offended people ......... it doesn't make it 'right' but it is stated somewhere: 'An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' .........
Sadly all sects have those who will be fundamentalists and those who will die to become martyrs. Sadly those with such ideas are moving across the World plundering .......... in the name of :-\ .......... and it amazes me how young some are ........
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Thanks HB - I did try to pick my words carefully.
Not easy, the sweary words were the ones which came easily.
CLKD "How do you feel if insulted? Really, deeply, inside ......."
However I feel when insulted does not give me the right to go around slaughtering people - it just doesn't. That's why we have laws.
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Lots going on at the moment in Paris.
Like HB says we need to stand up to these people. Limpy totally agree!
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A big ship and a one way ticket springs to mind to be honest.
Let them have what they want a long long way away.
Limpy I agree, being insulted does not give anyone the right to kill.
As for an eye for an eye.....really....I thought civilised people had gone beyond that.
Honeyb
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Apparently Honeybun - not ............ and most humans would rise above retaliation in such a manner. Apparently one of these had already served time in France for related activities :'( ........... I agree, a large ship in the middle of the Roaring Forties ..... where it's either absolutely still or pitching and tossing. That won't happen either ...........
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Sieges over ……….. :-\
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Over, but not forever as bound to be attacks elsewhere. Can only hope that counter terrorism guys are on the ball.
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Just read this in the Daily Mail this morning
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904237/MAX-HASTINGS-liberals-defended-traitors-like-Snowden-Assange-look-photo-admit-deluded-fools.html
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It's not really as simple as that. You have to decide what is more important to you. a) Individual freedom or b) Public security. Public security conducted at a low scale such as CTV cameras and stop and search powers, or at a high level, eg. arrest without trial and torture. Or somewhere inbetween. The problem is who decides where on this scale the defence of public safety should be. Will it be us? Will it be the government or the security services? and where is the protection for the innocent/wrongly accused.
There is a lot to think about and I would be careful of looking to publications like the 'Daily Wail' for information or direction on how to proceed with this complicated and very important matter.
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I'm really not sure that anyone knows what to do for the best. What I do know is that something has to be done to prevent these things happening over and over again.
There is no negotiating with these people who target others who go against their religion.
If it means that the security services need more powers then so be it. The government of the day has to decide how best to protect its citizens by whatever means they can. If that means we are all watched a little mire closely then that's fine with me. It's a lot better than the alternative I think.
Honeyb
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I think it was an intelligent and reasonable article and quoted the Director General of the Security Service, Andrew Parker
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/about-us/who-we-are/staff-and-management/director-general/speeches-by-the-director-general/director-generals-speech-on-terrorism-technology-and-accountability.html
I don't agree that with Daily Mail bashing, considering its the best selling paper in Britain.
It has its share of daft articles like most newspapers, but it has some excellent political journalists.
I don't mind how high the level security is in Britain and worldwide is if it can protect us from the fear and atrocities of terrorism.
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Leaving it to the government is fine, if they are relatively benign and you think you can trust them. How do you know this? The CIA have recently be found guilty of torture.
But what if you have a government like Argentina in the 1970's and 1980's who 'disappeared' 30,000 of their own citizens in the name of security.
I'm not against increased security. I'm just trying to show how difficult it is to decided 'how', 'what level' and 'who has responsibility', and most important 'what are the safeguards'
The dilemma is that protection can reduce our freedoms, which is just what the terrorists are trying to do.
As for the Daily Mail they produce far too much emotive speculation and supposition rather than real news for my liking (that's why their are always in court for getting it wrong). The media is very powerful and therefore potentially dangerous. I try to vary the newspapers I read and the opinions they have, and make up my own mind.
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Having been through airports recently, they've certainly upped the security there. However, that doesn't cover those who are possibly living amongst the general population. This is where most of the current terror attacks are. As hubby says they've piled lots of money into airport body scanners etc, but these terrorists are on the ground. There is no doubt something will happen sooner or later here, as Max Hastings said in his report.
On Thursday, the director general of MI5, Andrew Parker, made a rare speech, warning it was almost inevitable that an attack in this country would get through sooner or later. ‘Although we and our partners try our utmost, we know that we cannot hope to stop everything,' he said.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904237/MAX-HASTINGS-liberals-defended-traitors-like-Snowden-Assange-look-photo-admit-deluded-fools.html#ixzz3OPrT2CBe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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"I'm not against increased security. I'm just trying to show how difficult it is to decided 'how', 'what level' and 'who has responsibility', and most important 'what are the safeguards' "
Sorry but I don't think we can afford the luxury of that anymore.
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Sorry Silverlady, to my mind that means the terrorists have won. We would be no better than them.
Just been listening to 'From my own correspondent' on BBC radio 4. Its very informative about what is happening re this question around the world. Well worth a listen on iplayer.
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What would be more affected is to stop terrorists, such as the ones in Paris, becoming disaffected. This means making a serious effort to tackle 'social injustice'. The level of social injustice experienced by ethnic minorities in France, and Paris in particular (especially in relation to muslims) is huge. This make a fertile picking ground for terrorist groups to recruit. One of the dangers at the moment is reprisal attacks on innocent people.
The whole situation is complex and wide ranging and affects us all.
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It is very difficult to protect ourselves against people who are prepared to die for their cause. During the IRA atrocities we were always reminded to look out for suspicious packages but, as in the 7/7 bombings, the bombers were the bombs. Also, we cannot protect ourselves against machete wielding terrorists as in the Lee Rigby killing, they just stood waiting for the police to turn up. It appears that the Paris gunmen were already very well known to the security services and were on a list of people not allowed entry to the USA but were still able to commit this atrocity. Just seen on SKY news that they had actually dropped off the security service radar.....
It is sad but inevitable that the guardsmen on duty outside our royal palaces have now been moved inside and the ones that do remain outside are protected by armed police
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The level of social injustice experienced by ethnic minorities in France, and Paris in particular (especially in relation to muslims) is huge.
It doesn't give them the right to go around murdering those who displease them.
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Absolutely not Limpy. It's not an excuse, but it is a reason. Unless social problems are addressed what do you do? Just watch as more of Frances muslim youth are radicalised.
Quote from today's Telegraph Editorial :-
"The social conditions that create minds open to radical ideas have to be addressed"
Later it says:-
"That old ugly prejudice is on the rise again if France, with the result that French Jews are now thought to be the largest immigrant group to Israel. In 2014 more than 7000 left France, twice the number that did so in 2013 Crucially, the may not only be fleeing Islamism but also the ominous RISE OF THE FAR RIGHT"
The last sentence of the editorial is:- The West must not sacrifice its liberties in vain panic but remain reasonable, free and strong. At the very least, its moral victory is guaranteed.
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I've read several really interesting articles in the wake of the horror in Paris this week, and this was one of the best arguments for satire and the need to live in a world where we can openly criticise and take the piss out of each other (this includes all governments and all religions): http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/the-blasphemy-we-need/?_r=0 (http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/the-blasphemy-we-need/?_r=0)
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I can't believe this there is NO reason that can be justified to murder innocent civilians in cold blood anywhere in the world, non at all.
Have we not learned anything from World War 2
Think I will shut up now.
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Absolutely, no justification at all. But unless you tackle the root cause of recruitment to terrorist organisations it will just go on and on.
The largest contingent of europeans joining terrorist groups in the Middle East are from France. That speaks volumes. It needs to be stopped. To stop their minds being poisoned there must be ways of making them feel more connected to the communities they come from.
Silverlady I used the word 'reason' in the sense of 'motivation' NOT 'justification'. You have totally misunderstood me.
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This Rosebud was my initial reason for beginning the thread, that NO ONE has the 'right' to take the piss out of others - we are trying to teach our children that bullying is not acceptable - satire is bullying. The late Editor stood and stated that he 'has the right to abuse others' - so that includes rape then?
In a country where the veil is banned ……… and now there is outrage because Muslims feel they are not being heard in France :-\ ……… and have acted as they see fit in a 'free' society, it doesn't make it 'right' to kill others but sadly this mindset goes back into the depths of time …. where does 'the right to freedom' stop?
I never read 'animal farm' :-\ too scary, too close to the truth ……..
Children disappear from the UK daily - taken 'abroad' to be mutilated as is the Custom of their culture - and because they are as young as 4 years old, no one at customs blinks an eye-lid - so it is that young teens are drawn into the Custom of their culture because these customs are handed down without question. Pretty similar to across the water sadly, family history becomes a myth in the telling ….. and the anger is perpetuated :'( without anyone calling a halt to it. Our history makes our future ……….
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:bang: :bang: :bang: and now President Obama, our PM and several other European Leaders plan to join the 'march' in France tomorrow …… that is NOT what I pay my Taxes for, why can't they keep a low profile and stand quietly in their own homes :-\ ……. this isn't about solidarity, this is about being 'seen': the French Police have already stated that they can hardly deal with the expected crowds without the added worry of celebrities attending :'(
STAY AT HOME ……… organise a support meeting in your own village, light a candle but don't go to Paris
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I'm very much in favour of 'free speech'. As the saying goes (or something like it) 'I hate what you're saying but I defend your right to say it'.
However, with the right to freedom of speech comes HUGE responsibility. We must balance it with 'human rights' and respect.
There is a big danger that the whole tragedy will be hijacked by the far right in France. Lets hope there is no trouble and the marches.
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Thank you Rosebud. There's also a saying that infers that by remaining quiet allows 'stuff' to happen :-\ but I can't remember …..
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satire is bullying
I never read 'animal farm' :-\ too scary, too close to the truth ……..
Don't agree that satire is bullying - it's trying to provoke comment / change. Is that not allowed?
"Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement"
How can you say "Animal Farm" is too scary if you've not read it?
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I don't think satire should be aimed at issues that other cultures are deeply sensitive about. We wouldn't like it in reverse with issues that we hold dear.
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This Rosebud was my initial reason for beginning the thread, that NO ONE has the 'right' to take the piss out of others - we are trying to teach our children that bullying is not acceptable - satire is bullying.
CLKD, satire is not bullying. Bullying is attacking an individual; satire is highlighting ridiculous and outmoded beliefs, crass politicians and (often extremely harmful) stupidity. If we cannot ridicule and criticise, then we do not live in a democracy.
You've just posted on a public forum that children disappear from the UK on a daily basis, "to be mutilated as is the custom of their culture". Now, someone of that culture might be "offended" by your remarks - you called their custom "mutilation". Should you therefore keep your comments to yourself because it "offends" someone? Or should you voice your anger at this practice?
No-one has the right to not be offended, because being offended is subjective and really just means "I don't agree with you".
Bottom line: is someone's religion so fragile that it can't withstand a bit of criticism?
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I don't think satire should be aimed at issues that other cultures are deeply sensitive about. We wouldn't like it in reverse with issues that we hold dear.
The thing is that some people find religion, all religion, deeply offensive.
Where this is the case, perhaps satire is a gentler way of expressing disagreement than saying outright "this is a load of ........" The cartoons were mocking Islam weren't they?
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Dave Allen always ended his very funny jokes and sketches aimed at all religions and denominations with
"May your God go with you"
This was in the sixties and seventies.
Quote
"His baffled humanity, his perplexity in the face of life's mysteries and irritations, are the qualities that make him such a fine and sometimes moving comedian. He's a blaspheming atheist on the side of the angels."
No one was shot dead because of him I am sure.
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Satire's raison d'etre is to ridicule "offensive" issues.
It's not so long ago that gay relationships and women being allowed to vote were "offensive" to some people. Even now, contraception and abortion are "offensive" to catholics. Should we kowtow to that, despite it being a load of misogynistic crap?
We've always needed satire to draw attention to these issues, and we always will.
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And hopefully we always will.
The right of free speech is so important to everyone. We take it so much for granted and maybe we should remember those who fought for it.
Honeyb
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I don't think satire should be aimed at issues that other cultures are deeply sensitive about. We wouldn't like it in reverse with issues that we hold dear.
The thing is that some people find religion, all religion, deeply offensive.
Where this is the case, perhaps satire is a gentler way of expressing disagreement than saying outright "this is a load of ........" The cartoons were mocking Islam weren't they?
I think people who do are treading on eggshells. Disagree but don't mock.
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It is mutilation …….. medically and emotionally, my point being that the UK is not good at watching our borders for those leaving so how are we going to be watching for those attempting to come in 'with intent' …….
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They are not coming in....there are here...born and educated in this country....they are British......but they follow the Islamic religion.
They are being radicalised and there is the danger. How on earth do you stop that. The young are born to rebel and push boundaries. Only trouble is these young people are prepared to kill......us.....and our children....
In the name of Mohammed.
Honeyb
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I'm trying to imagine God in His Heaven, seeing his children mistrust and mock and attack each other. Because it's all done in His name - isn't it????? I think it's so tragic, the way people are so divided throughout the world. What on earth is the point of causing divisions amongst each other, when we all come into the world, live our lives and then go out?? We're all the same species, made to the same model, for goodness' sake (literally). Why can't we see each other as that?
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It would be good is all religions could accept each other. However, the text below is taken from http://infidelsarecool.com/2006/12/overwhelming-evidence-of-i/
Islam doesn't look tolerant or forgiving to me.
let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-
Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)
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I think it all comes back to Britain being on the highest alert, vigilance and security and hope they can protect us.
I hope our Police are given the money they need as our Intelligence Services have been given, and Government gets tougher.
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Well done on finding and posting that Limpy.
That's why I would like a big ship and a one way ticket and send them on the way to the promised land....there's that is and not mine.
One of the things that has always annoyed me is that when we Brits go visit another country we generally carefully observe the customs of others.....now I'm not talking about Spain here. If we don't then there is a rather large chance we could end up in trouble. Britain in particular go beyond all reasonable limits to welcome other cultures to the extent that our people are wary of what to say and how to say it. And this is how we are repaid......young people of Islamic faith who are prepared to kill innocent people. I don't want to live in a totally white country and that's not what I would ever want but can people not just live together peacefully without trying to impose what they believe on others.
Honeyb
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I think it all comes back to Britain being on the highest alert, vigilance and security and hope they can protect us.
I hope our Police are given the money they need as our Intelligence Services have been given.
No chance! And the few policeman left are too busy doing paperwork or off with stress!
It isn't religion that is the problem; it's people who use it as an excuse for greed, prejudice and the belief that their beliefs are the only ones that can possibly be the right ones. Thorough out history, there has been so much violence in the name of religion.
I believe it is good and healthy for people to get together, to share what they believe and support each other, but with respect for others who do not feel the same.
What is happening now is frightening. So many people lost and learning to hate and ready to be drawn into violence through technology.
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Limpy, you can find as bad or worse in the bible.
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Fanaticism is the enemy, not faith.
I say this as an atheist.
This thread is becoming toxic.
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I disagree, it's an airing of thoughts. Nothing toxic about that.
It's obviously of great concern and also people fail to understand how these things are happening in our world.
Honeyb
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Sorry, but I find xenophobia very toxic.
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xenophobia
"dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries"
The title of this thread "Paris Attacks" is about Islam terrorists murdering innocent people they did not like. Is this right?
That is what I call toxic!
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Yes, but some of the more recent post have been an attack on muslims in general.
That's xenophobia.
That's toxic.
As I said before 'Fanaticism is the enemy, not faith'
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I see no attack on Muslims in general on this thread.
Terrorism causes outrage and anger in all people, Muslims included men, women and children are being killed too even in their own countries.
This is the nature of Terrorism to cause fear, anger and confusion, they are an invisible and sometime insidious enemy, how do you fight that?
Our Security and Intelligent Services are trying to fight it 24/7 worldwide, I hope they can succeed in keeping us safe.
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Silverlady, you must be reading different posts to me.
I have found at least 3 which are attacking muslims in general.
Please prove me wrong, if you can.
Remember the policeman who was shot in Paris was a muslim, and his family are asking for unity.
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Rosebud - I commented on Islam not Muslims.
I find the points highlighted from the Koran distasteful in the extreme. I'm sure the bible and other books of faith have unpleasant things as well. Don't know whether they sanction the killing of those with a different point of view.
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I think you will find Limpy that you cannot have a Muslim without Islam.
It's like having a Christian without Christianity, or a Jew without Judaism.
I have no time for religion.
However, the fanatics that become terrorists are a very small proportion.
Don't let them breed hate and tar all Muslims with the same brush.
The far right in Paris have started to use the attacks as a weapon against all Muslims.
That's another danger, as the stirring of hatred will bring about more attacks, from all sides.
We have to show the terrorists we are better than them.
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Try to show you are better then them, they will laugh in your face. Fight them, this is what they want!
Terrorists not just Islamic Extremists won't respond to anything you do, this is the huge problem the World has to face.
Its an age old problem in a modern world.
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Why do you want to 'do what they want' ?
I won't be forced into doing anything a terrorist would want.
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It is mutilation …….. medically and emotionally, my point being that the UK is not good at watching our borders for those leaving so how are we going to be watching for those attempting to come in 'with intent' …….
I agree with you, it's mutilation. I realise you were talking about a different issue but I took your comment out of context to demonstrate how we MUST be able to criticise cultures/beliefs/religions.
Problem is, terrorism all boils down to power and politics - it rarely has anything to do with religion or beliefs. I'm happy to be corrected but I think most terrorists are recruited from poorly educated, low achievers who want to feel important. They're radicalised by people who have a political agenda, not a religious one. Once recruited, these terrorists are expendable, easily manipulated and there are plenty of them - in other words, they're perfect soldiers.
I'm not for a minute excusing what they do but killing them, imprisoning them, trying to stop them entering whatever country they're targeting, isn't going to achieve much in the long term.
What would go a long way is Muslim communities everywhere speaking out, not just to condemn the acts of terrorism (which they're already doing) but to support the right to free speech and everything that comes with it.
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I suspect that some of my posts are being referred to as xenophobic. So in the interest of clarity, I do not have any issues with law abiding people of any creed or colour.
What I do have issues with is terrorists be they Muslim or the IRA or anyone who brings death and destruction in any part of the world.
I would still like to see any person who has gone to fight abroad for any terrorist organisation stripped of British citizenship and not allowed back into this country ever again. I read in the paper today that David Cameron wants to do just that and is being told by the EU that would breach the terrorists human rights. At every turn he is blocked. America have successfully imprisoned Abu Hanza for life for terrorist activities. Most of the evidence that convicted him came from this country yet we spend millions just trying to get him out of Britain.
All these things add up and we are seen as a soft target.
So xenophobic , most definitely not but passionately against terror in our country most definitely yes and in favour of whatever it takes to get this savage behaviour stopped.
Honeyb
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The far right in Paris have started to use the attacks as a weapon against all Muslims.
The political far right is the West's most dangerous weakness, and therefore the one that terrorists will exploit. How can multicultural societies stand in unison when the far right want to tear them apart? Just take a look at what Farage said about the Paris attacks: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/charlie-hebdo-nick-clegg-dismayed-at-nigel-farage-blaming-gross-policy-of-multiculturalism-9964810.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/charlie-hebdo-nick-clegg-dismayed-at-nigel-farage-blaming-gross-policy-of-multiculturalism-9964810.html)
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In WWII, anyone not British was imprisoned - many on the Isle of Man which I didn't realise until read a novel about 10 years ago …….. and Italians/Germans were put under house arrest or imprisoned.
There have always and will always be those who disagree with the main stream …….. whether it's as technology progresses or in these recent cases, because they have a need to control. It's the use of religion as an excuse/reason that makes me angry!
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I agree with everything HB has said.
I also think that "Human Rights Bill" should not be applied to cold blooded murderers who plot to kill innocent men, women and children for whatever reason.
They have taken away the human rights of the people they have slaughtered.
"Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world"
I wonder if this should be rethought now as we certainly have not learned anything since it was implemented after the Second World War.
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Mans need to control goes way before WWII. Think Crusades ………. 'us' against 'them' :-\
Sadly, Jews have been moving out of France in droves since 2012 …….. some into the UK and US, others to Israel ………. the World is once more, on the move :'(
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Well said SL & HB
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I've seen parts of 'Animal Farm' in a film …… enough to put me off reading the book and I don't need to read a book to know it's scarey.
How do you feel about the 'heads of state' going to Paris today ………. it makes me angry, the Security Forces have enough to deal with right now :poke2:
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Why do you find Animal Farm scary?
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Too close to the truth?
Civilisation is only half a step away from chaos :'(
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How do you feel about the 'heads of state' going to Paris today ………. it makes me angry, the Security Forces have enough to deal with right now
It's called Unity!
I agree with SL & HB also.
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We can do unity in our 'own' countries though, no need to pile on added security problems in France and put Heads of State at risk! not what I pay my taxes for ……… there was a group in London, David Cameron could have stayed home :bang: