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[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Dr Tim Spector's Zoe App has expanded to ask questions about the menopause. His last YouTube video reports that women who eat more fruit and veg have fewer and less severe meno symptoms.

Although I approve of more research into the meno I would hate medical professionals to assume that diet is the complete answer. I am still experiencing symptoms and I am post meno and eat a whole food, plant based diet, I am also aware of MM ladies who are vegan/vegetarian.
Perhaps we should inform the Zoe App of our stories? I would hate Drs to replace ' it's  all in your head' with 'just eat more veg' as a treatment for the  menopause.

Take care ladies.

K.

[ATB]

I really doubt that would happen, it’s fairly obvious anyway that with more fruit and veg and literally any medical issue, you are more likely to experience less symptoms or severity. Same case with covid but they certainly rarely say diet and weight can prevent or lessen severity with that. It’s a part of the conversation but not an important part. Sure it’ll be the same for this. I don’t use the Zoe app but if you do the more info from women on this the better.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

The problem of course is correlation is not causation. For example I was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis the same month that I had my last period but I doubt that UC brought on my menopause, it was just a coincidence. Having said that, a healthy a diet has all sorts of benefits so you would hope that hormonal balance might be helped. I guess we will never know but the more research the better!


Take care ladies.

K.

[ATB]

Yes, that’s the point of the specific research for menopause. But we do have loads of scientific evidence that fruits and vegetables lessen risk of and severity of plenty of health issues. 7 out of the top 10 causes of death are associated with diet and lifestyle. It makes sense menopause is impacted by diet too, how much we would find out with more research.

[Marchlove]

I’m not vegetarian or vegan but I do try and eat a lot of plant based food.

My naturopath nutritionist (also qualified nurse) used to bang on to me about the importance of zinc in our diets. She said that estrogen made us high in copper and therefore is was imperative that we have zinc either in our diet or if we are on hrt with supplements.

I know little about all this but I do know plant based diets are very high in copper.

Came across this which is quite a long article but very interesting.

https://www.daimanuel.com/2017/04/28/why-vegans-should-be-worried-about-nutritional-deficiencies/

If you do start supplementing zinc you have to start low and go slow, as otherwise you will get detox symptoms from copper dumping. Also take zinc with food at night.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to change from their preferred diet but thought it would be remiss of me not to pass this information on for those who might be interested. xx

[ATB]

Most vegans are a lot more careful with their diet than those who are not. You could find hundreds of articles like that to post about vegan diets but we’ve probably already read them. On average there are 3 vitamins & minerals vegans can be deficient in, calcium m, iodine and B12- if they don’t supplement it. Those who are not vegan are typically deficient in calcium, iodine and 5 others. Zinc doesn’t seem to be a huge issue for vegans if you look at the studies. The article linked is a hit piece written by a ‘wellness coach’ not a RD and includes the silly myth that soy mimics estrogen. This is simply an unscientific opinion piece. If it worries anyone I would encourage you to look at the studies on the issues with copper, as they are only an issue for those who eat a high saturated fat diet and high cholesterol in combination with a diet high in copper. Organ meats and shellfish have the highest level of copper.

[Marchlove]

Open access, peer reviewed

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/51098

[Marchlove]

https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/hormone-use-causes-zinc-deficiency

[ATB]

What is it that you think those studies are saying about vegan diets? They’re about zinc deficiency and hormones? The article you posted had all kinds of myths and stuff about vegan diets by someone who is not trained and who lacked citations. It’s just an opinion piece.

Vegans aren’t at higher risk of a zinc deficiency. Those who eat a diet high in sat fat AND copper are. Vegan diets don’t have a lot more of either.

I don’t think this thread is about defending plant based diets in general though. I think it’s about how people feel their diet has or hasn’t helped menopause isn’t it?

[ATB]

Your body usually excretes excess copper via the liver sending it out in bile. Unless you have Wilson’s disease.

This is a good NIH article on Copper. Excess copper is rare. It mostly occurs through drinking water that is coming through copper pipes and household plumbing.  There are issues around deficiency and one of the 4 groups at risk of this are those taking zinc.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Copper-HealthProfessional/

[Marchlove]

Dear ATB
I’m not attacking people who eat plant based diets, I’m only passing on some information for people to make of what they choose.

I haven’t looked for research showing if a plant based diet is higher in copper, but I would have thought the ladies who are on a plant based diet will perhaps think it is an avenue they should look into for themselves. Then if they find that’s the case they may wish to supplement.

Certainly I know that over farming has depleted our soils of zinc and that’s an area I have done research on.

Yes indeed excess copper  is excreted by bile. But that of course is another issue for people with GI issues.

The zinc, copper ratio has been quite well researched and members will be able to look into that as well if they wish.

The more we question the more we learn! X

[ATB]

But you didn’t just post an opinion piece on zinc and excess copper ( a complete non-issue ). It was an article attacking plant based diets in various ways, without any scientific analysis or by a person with expertise. You can’t just post random advice to vegans if it’s poorly sourced.  You said you knew plant based diets were ‘ very high in copper’ below? But they’re not. That’s categorically false. It’s not something vegans need to worry about, or anyone really. Randomly testing for excess copper when it isn’t really a thing, deficiency is, is a waste of money- they won’t do this on the NHS. Zinc supplements increase risk of copper deficiency, which is more common.
I understand you’re not attacking us and apologies if I implied you were. The article is attacking the diet and your info is wrong so for me that’s a problem when you share info that worries people unnecessarily. If you don’t really know about it, why put it out there?

[Marchlove]

Ok, some of your points I except. The article is attacking the diet but not me.

 But my extremely well qualified naturopath nutritionist was adamant on this point hence my statement that ‘plant based diets are very high in copper’.

I might not ‘really know about it’ as you say, but I’m still able surely ATB to pass on information for people to do their own research.

Perhaps I should have started a zinc thread, but tried that once and nobody responded.

X

[Gnatty]

My Meno Dr at Newson Health said if you take hrt you must make sure you take a good amount of vitamin C, B6 and Zinc. Presumably because somehow hrt depletes them. Not sure how... Anyhow, just had a nice rare steak so maybe that's the zinc sorted!

[Marchlove]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236225258_Effect_of_vegetarian_diets_on_zinc_status_A_systematic_review_and_meta-analysis_of_studies_in_humans