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[nellipope]

Hi

I’m looking for some answers, ones that I can’t seem to find from Google, and my GP is not very helpful.

I’m 47 (nearly 48). I can’t get any GP to listen to me, they don’t believe I am perimenopausal they say I’m too young and my FSH is normal. My main issue at the moment is severe anxiety, and I mean fully intrusive thoughts, can’t leave the house type anxiety, my cycles are a little chaotic, between 15-40 (two years ago they were 25-28), I have mild hot flushes, headaches, mild joint pain. But TERRIBLE anxiety, and brain fog (I am also seeing a counsellor).

I have thought of going back to my GP, but I am concerned about taking Oestrogen. In my 20’s I tried taking the pill and just couldn’t get on with it, I tried many different varieties of the pill (Marvelon, mini, bi-phasic etc) but suffered with anxiety and headaches brought on by the increased oestrogen. So considering HRT does not sound like a solution.

I know that oestrogen is my issue and I’ve read that this can be an issue for some women. For instance when I was experiencing normal cycles, I tended to feel much happier after ovulation when oestrogen drops and progesterone rises, whereas the first 10 days off a cycle I would feel super anxious. To be honest I would prefer to feel calmer rather than energised.

What are the options for me? Would I be better off sticking with counselling than going for HRT? What other options are there?

Bear in mind that I haven’t been offered anything HRT wise yet, as my GP says I’m too young (48).

[Mary G]

nellipope, sorry to hear your GP is so useless.  Mine was equally useless and didn't have a clue about anything connected with the menopause and HRT.  You are definitely not too young to be menopausal, that is complete nonsense.

Fortunately there is plenty of help available elsewhere and from what you have said, I think you are in a similar situation to Crispychick and others over on my compounded hormones thread.   Basically, your oestrogen is unstable, spiking, generally too high and out of sync with your progesterone - this is often referred to as oestrogen dominance.   It's interesting that you always felt better during the second half of your cycle and you had headaches (possibly migraines?) with high doses of oestrogen pills.

In your situation, I would buy some progesterone cream online and use a lowish dose everyday.   You may need to add oestrogen into your regime later on but right now, it sounds like you just need progesterone.

I hope that helps.

[Flossieteacake]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Your GP is wrong! You are not too young to be perimenopausal. I started when I was 38 and it was a constant battle to have GPs accept that. I think it would be really helpful for you to ask to be referred to a menopause clinic as they will be able to understand your needs and address your concerns. I think it is great you are seeing a counsellor. Maybe anxiety medication may be helpful too.

[Kathleen]

Hello nellipope and welcome to the forum.

I agree with all the advice you have received so far but I thought I would add that my GP specifically asked me about any meno symptoms at an unrelated appointment when he noticed that I was 48! In fact it was another 4 years before I had hot flushes etc but at least he had given me the heads up lol.

I think a menopause clinic is your best bet if your doctor continues to be unhelpful.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Marchlove]

I agree with Mary G, that you should buy some OTC progesterone cream, I think that would help you.
Anything the GP or menopause clinic would give you is likely to be too strong. x

[nellipope]

Thankyou so much, all of you.

Despite their being so much recent awareness, it seems it’s still really hard to get straight up advice. So I really value your replies. I didn’t even know I could get progesterone cream. Thankyou.

I’ve got an appointment with another GP, so I feel much more armed and aware of what’s going on with your comments. So fingers crossed I can get some reassurance from them.

I was really interested to read on some of the other threads that there are quite a few women who haven’t had a positive experience with HRT or have found it made them feel more anxious.

[CrispyChick]

Hi

Yes indeed this sounds like me. Im definitely not ready for estrogen. In fact, in 2 lots of bloods, 3 months apart, my estrogen levels, have been fine. I aldi have zero hot flushes/sweats... But boy do I have a ton of other symptoms of hormonal imbalance.

My GP is lovely, but couldn't help me. The NHS meno clinic had me trial every combined pill under the sun and then hrt. Nothing worked - although some pills helped a bit, but gave me awful side affects, so I was just replacing one symptom with another.

I'm now seeing a bhrt clinic who identified  I'm low in progesterone. Unfortunately the treatment is not working for me yet, but I do think I'm quite an extreme case, and I do think I have a very large imbalance to try to sort...after having experienced this for 4 years. But get, I'm still trying.

My advice - read as much as you can. Don't expect the GP or NHS memo clinics to take you seriously on estrogen dominance... But you'll find lots of info on it from the States. Over here we don't seem to treat until estrogen is needed, other than prescribe the pill.

 

[VictoryV]

Hi Nellipope,
What you’ve described is exactly the same as I was last July, I couldn’t take any birth control pills either.
I couldn’t leave the house, answer the phone or look at email, the anxiety was crippling, all symptoms arrived overnight.
Things improved rapidly with Oestrogel and Utrogestan from my GP.

Good luck on your appointment. 

[Vicky81]

My consultant at the Studd clinic in London (when i asked) said that there is no such thing as oestrogen dominance. This infact is an American marketing scheme to draw people in to buying their progesterone creams. There was a study on this which i read on Mums net  a while ago.

As was explained to me when asked, Progesterone is ONLY there and given as a tablet to protect the lining of the womb, thats all.

Vicky cxx

[CrispyChick]

Yes, that's absolutely what they tell you in UK. And I believed it for 4 years. I'm sure your doc at the Stud clinic does believe it too.

Jury's out in my case, but I certainly feel like my estrogen peaks cause my original symptoms and my prog is very very low.

I'm on a fb group with 18k others all with symptoms of estrogen spikes (shall we call it, rather than dominance) and falling prog. All different forms of prog are used, not just cream, or one brand of cream. Many of these women use utrogestan or similar. They're all there helping each other get the best out of their own trial and errors.

When I tried the estrogen part of HRT alone... My symptoms were off the scale. So, if prog alone can assist me at this crazy peri stage of my life, I'll take it.

It's taken me 4 years to get to this point... Mostly because most UK doc tell you you don't need prog to feel good.

It is a calming hormone... If needed, it can help with anxiety. Problem in UK is, the standard NHS dose is often too high.

My GP and NHS meno clinic have provided no help to me, other than try the combined pill - which didn't work.

It's horrible we're left in this limbo... But, if after trialling mainstream measures, you're no better - please look elsewhere and research as much as you can.

[Vicky81]

Hi hun

thanks 4 thats, yeah gives me food for thought....i asked the clinic to test my progesterone and hey said they dont test 4 that as Oestrogen is always the culprit x

I have just looked at medichecks..and they do  HRT blood test...you can go to a clinic or haver a nurse come out and take blood at home. It tests for Progesterone in the package...so when i get paid i am going for that just to see... not that i know what a normal progesterone result should be? Do you? xx

[CrispyChick]

Wow. Really surprised they don't test prog at Studd clinic. You'd think they'd want to see whole package.

Now, I'm absolutely no expert in any of this  but there are standard 'ranges' for prog, as there are estrogen. I've got them on my bloods... Will go look.

Basically, if you don't ovulate (annovulatory) you don't produce much prog. I know I've stopped ovulating regularly (as I get bad ovulation pain). My bloods showed I didn't ovulate that month. Common in peri.

It's so difficult to know what and who to believe. I'm so fed up with it. But I cavt see how prog makes no difference at all when cyclogest - a brand used here in the UK - is licenced to support a pregnancy but also licenced to treat pms!!! I only discovered this last night... But that puts progesterone in a whole new light for me!!!  Pms..!!??!!! You don't get much more hormonally imbalanced than pms... And prog is a licenced treatment.

Anyway, as we all know, prog alone is not working for me yet... So i certainly can't promote. But I do promote exploration of all avenues.

I don't think you need a package of bloods for prog. Save your money and get a, 21 day prog **** test. Sure medichecks offer that. Must be around day 21. Its about £39.

[CrispyChick]

Follicular: < 5.0nmol/L.
Luteal: 3.5 – 67 nmol/L.
Post-menopause: < 4.4nmol/L.

Think this is the nhs bench mark... But, my bloods from clinic say anything under 5 you haven't ovulated. Anything over 30 and you have. So I guess anything under 30 is low if ovulation always brings prog over 30.

Mine was 3.5. Now 7 after supplementing.

I believe its not so much about the value as u head to meno though... More the balance. So my prog is very low, but my estrogen is fine. So I'm unbalanced. If both were low - might be OK.

[Marchlove]

Exactly CrispyChick!

But I’m beginning to think that yes can be treated with Progesterone, but for those of us it doesn’t work with, in other words progesterone intolerance, I think we might have PMDD!

There has to be a reason why some of us are intolerant, but what is the reason? Is it because we are deficient in precursor hormones perhaps?

These are never tested by the clinics let alone the nhs!

Let’s all research this as much as we can, there has to be a reason x

[VictoryV]

Interesting thread!
Marchlove, I assumed hormone clinics were testing more than estrogens, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA etc. is this not the case? I’ve been looking for a consultant for 8 months and still not found one in the U.K.
I think there are far too many people benefitting from progesterone therapy to discount it. I wish I’d known more about it years ago.
CrispyChick, I didn’t know Cyclogest was licensed for PMS either. Thanks for posting that, it may help my daughter.
Thanks ladies.☀️