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Author Topic: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?  (Read 22272 times)

CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #255 on: January 18, 2022, 10:44:16 AM »

Thanks folks.

Sorry to confuse Victoria. The DIM is not from the MG clinic. It's my own desperation kicking in...prob not one of my better ideas, but I'm reading loads that it helps metabolise estrogen and reduce dominance.

In saying that, way back when all this started for me I went, at great cost, to a herbalist. She made concoctions for me... And I'm pretty sure DIM was in there... No affect. But no idea what dose she used etc... I quickly left that expensive regime.

Well, I'm at my worst, but I'm 99% sure it's all hormonal as the pill defo lowers some of this for me... But makes me feel dreadful in other ways 🤣

I know it's early days. I'm trying to bring my next clinic appointment forward. I feel I shouldn't just up my dose without discussion. They treat estrogen dom... So they must know what they're doing 🤔 I hope. X

How are you guys???
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dangermouse

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #256 on: January 18, 2022, 10:59:14 PM »

Oh that's so spooky CrispyChick! I just saw your first post of today and thought whilst I was reading if I should mention the DIM I am taking and then I saw you mention it further down in your post!!!

I tried DIM in 2017 (I know that as I am now taking the one I bought then and found the date on my Amazon account). I had a very strong reaction to it back then, as I did with most things, with palpitations etc and stopped immediately. I clearly held onto the pack to potentially try when hormones were more settled.

Anyway, I saw it mentioned on a Facebook group (probably the oestrogen dominance one) where a woman was taking it alongside transdermal HRT and said that she cannot take Estradiol without taking DIM as she is very sensitive to oestrogen. Apparently the DIM does not reduce oestrogen, it just allows the liver to metabolise it properly. This also means it stops testosterone from converting to oestrogen so it also boosts testosterone. It is also recommended for men to reduce enlarged prostate, which is caused by their testosterone converting to oestrogen.

I started it last Sunday (10 days ago) and I had an excruciating headache that came and went for the first few days. I then did more research and saw that this was short term and not to stop as it was a good sign, even though many give up thinking its doing something harmful. Since then I have felt very good and much more balanced with almost zero of the low-ebb constant anxious feeling - I am not taking anything else but it can, as above, help to take alongside HRT.

The testosterone bit was interesting as I have felt nervous driving for the past few years and even when on the progesterone cream, when the most relaxed, this only reduced a little. (I do have to drive late at night now on M25 as my parents moved an hour away and I try to visit weekly after work). Last week I was whizzing along the fast lane as I did when younger and didn't feel nervous at all and I wonder if this is the testosterone! I have tried the cream but it used to make me feel as if I had PMT - potentially it was converting to more oestrogen?

There is a lot to read up on DIM but it is basically from cruciferous vegetables and converts the more harmful estrogen into the healthier form.

I was going to wait before posting about it anywhere as very early days but had to reply!

This link is from an excerpt of a book and gives more info.
https://fortwaynephysicalmedicine.com/blog/the-benefits-of-dim

In terms of the high dose progesterone cream, I found 100mg twice a day was enough to crowd out the excess oestrogen but a few years ago I didn't get the same relief so potentially did need a very high dose. Jan Toledano from LHC did used to work with MG and she always said try to get as much as possible in you. I don't think I ever took it high enough as my oestrogen spikes were silly high.

Just to add that I read many accounts of DIM reducing breast lumps and it can be protective against many cancers as stated in this research report.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4964527/
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 10:21:56 AM by dangermouse »
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52, perimenobloodypausal.

CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #257 on: January 19, 2022, 09:02:50 AM »

 ;) thank you so much Dangernouse.

That is so helpful. I'll read those articles shortly. Yes, I read DIM can cause flush out symptoms when starting. I think I'll give it a go. I know you shouldn't try too many things at once, but that's me nearly finished 2 cycles with progesterone and I feel nadda.

Today the dizziness and nausea have vanished. They've pained me every day of this cycle bar 2 /3 days immediately after ovulation. Now I'm mega grumpy and edgy. This ties in with a normal estrogen cycle. High estrogen in first part of cycle then a second surge after ovulation.

Plus, pms symptoms are again heralded as low prog.

So. I'm still waiting to hear if I can bring my appointment forward.

In the meantime I will start DIM. It arrives tomoz. 150mg. British made with money back guarantee. So hopefully a decent one.

I am tempted to:

1) double my prog dose to 2 x 25mg a day (I suspect this is what MG will do next anyway?!)

2) continue taking 25mg during days 1-10 of cycle (I'm only to take it from day 11 at moment).

Or both.

I'm slightly worried they'll get arsey with me if I go off piste 🤣🤣🤣🙈

I have looked at Jan at the London hormone clinic. They insist on London blood tests... I'm in Scotland. I just cant be bothered 🤣 with MG I can use other firms or use their bloods and have them drawn at superdrug.

I'm really pleased to hear DIM appears to be helping you. So, you're now at the later years of peri, is that right???   I really feel I am suffering in the same way you did. It's just crazy.  :o



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HelloSam666

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #258 on: January 19, 2022, 10:28:06 AM »

Hi Dangermouse, thank you for posting this information, it is so helpful and particularly about the DIM supplement. It sounds like i had the same experience as you and hence stopped it straight away. I haven't thrown it away and i'm tempted to try it again and persevere, see how i get on. I might leave it a month or so as i'm in a good place with the progesterone cream at the moment so would like to keep the continuity for a while.

Crispy Chick, i'm no expert here but i would be tempted to up the progesterone cream for a few days and see how you get on. By the sound of things, could it really make things any worse at this stage?

Just as a side note my sister who started the progesterone cream 3-4 weeks ago is getting on marvellously with it. No more strong headaches on a daily basis - had one in the last week and no night sweats. We'll have to wait to see if it helps her anxiety / tiredness as it's still early days.
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Gnatty

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #259 on: January 19, 2022, 10:33:39 AM »

Out of curiosity as I had never heard of DIM before - couldn't we just get the same benefits from eating cruciferous vegetables every day? We know they are really good for you in so many ways that surely that would confer a better benefit as we are consuming the whole thing and not just one element?
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CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #260 on: January 19, 2022, 10:48:17 AM »

Gnatty, from my understanding the part of the veg that acts on your hormones is just concentrated into the supplement. Yes, you could eat a lot of the veg.... But I think it's a lot!!!
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Gnatty

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #261 on: January 19, 2022, 10:52:03 AM »

Broccoli soup here we come!!
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CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #262 on: January 19, 2022, 10:54:08 AM »

Thanks sam

That's excellent about your sister. Long may it continue.

I think I'm just soo bad and been like this for 4 years, so I need a higher dose.

Yes, I'm seriously thinking about upping to 2 x 25. I will stop after my 10 days. But if I'm really bad again at start of next cycle, I'll try the 25mg every day until day 12, then 50mg day 11 onwards. That's what the pharmacist said can be done.

Just a prog question in general. So, the withdrawal of prog gives me a bleed, normally. On the mini pill I'd have no bleed. On the tablets last month I had a bleed 3 days after stopping. If you don't stop prog cream, would you not bleed?? Or perhaps that would only be at very high doses.

I suppose when I stop in 3 days time, will be interesting. If I've absorbed prog from the cream, I'd expect the same pattern as the oral prog...  Will be interesting trial.

I'll start the dim next cycle. Among with increased dose. I think. You're right Sam, not sure I could be any worse... Oh, unless I get migraines on top 😭
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CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #263 on: January 19, 2022, 06:48:51 PM »

Update.

Called to bring forward my clinic appointment and got a cancellation for this aft.  :-*

So, I now understand. My estrogen is not high. Neither is it low. It is a good level for my age.

My progesterone is very low.

I have also just calculated my ratio. This is apparently used to test for hormonal dominance when the hormones themselves are in normal range. My ratio is 12. It should be between 100 and 500!!!! Low means, estrogen dominance. Not to be confused with high estrogen.

OK. So plan of action.

I'm to double my testosterone/dhea dose.

Next month I've to take 50mg prog cream, split into 2 x 25mg. Take all month. Break on day 21. When period starts, restart.

Month 2 I've to double again to 100mg prog cream split 2 x 50mg. Take all month again etc...

She wants to build me up to ensure I can tolerate it. Want to avoid headaches etc. I can manage it up and down myself if I do get any issues. E. G take 12.5 am and 25 pm. Build up slowly.

Then bloods to check how I'm absorbing the cream. If it all works, she'll swap me off cream to an easier route of administration.

She said I can take DIM as it has lots of cancer limiting properties etc, but as I'm not high in estrogen, I don't need it for that 🤔. I might put that on hold....

Thoughts ladies????
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Mary G

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #264 on: January 20, 2022, 07:29:07 PM »

Crispy, thanks for the update.   I'm pleased you managed to get a cancellation at the clinic and what they have advised does make sense.

Out of interest, what are your oestrogen levels?   You said they are ideal so I was wondering what they are.

I hope that splitting the progesterone dose helps.

I have to confess I had never heard of DIM but it sounds very interesting!   It would be good to hear more about it.

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CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #265 on: January 20, 2022, 09:46:12 PM »

Thanks Mary

I'm hopeful. Been a bit better today. I actually felt a clunk as my estrogen switched off for the month. Funny how now my best time of the month is right before a period, despite the low progesterone.

My estradiol was:

335 pmol or translates to 91 pg/ml.

Does that mean anything to you??? She said normal for my age. I'm 45.

I don't feel the 25mg cream has done anything this month. In yet, 25mg oral I was defo feeling last month.
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Mary G

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #266 on: January 21, 2022, 12:43:27 PM »

That is a good level of oestrogen Crispy and it is the level most menopause specialists suggest women aim for post menopause.   I would say it's a good level for your age too - mine was stuck at 50 pg/mL (183 pmol) when I was 45, I was constantly sweating and had developed silent migraines.

If you were fighting off menopause symptoms due to oestrogen deficiency you would probably need to go quite a bit higher than that.  On the other hand, this might be your ideal oestrogen level and you can maintain that level with HRT when your own oestrogen levels drop further (post menopause women have levels of about 30 pg/mL/107 pmol).  This is something you will need to discuss with the doctor later on.

Glad you are feeling better!  Please keep us updated.
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dangermouse

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #267 on: January 21, 2022, 06:51:12 PM »

Yes, I agree, that all sounds positive and makes sense not to add in the DIM yet when you are testing the change in dose.

It's interesting as my oestrogen level is now below 50 but I don't have any oestrogen deficiency symptoms. I guess we are all different in what our bodies need.

Just to add, I get my own bloods taken from my GP (they respect the views of London Hormone Clinic as BMS docs so are happy to pay for them - I know that's not the case for a lot of GPs though) and LHC are happy to use them. Saying that, I think MG and LHC are similar as one was born from the other!
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CrispyChick

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #268 on: January 22, 2022, 09:44:44 AM »

Thanks ladies.

Danger ouse - Interesting indeed about your estrogen level.  :o I can't imagine wanting to keep mine at this level when I'm so symptomatic with low prog. But who knows what will happen.

So, if your estrogen is at 50 now, what do you do with your progesterone? And we assume that's why you feel a lot better than you did years ago?

Thanks for sharing about your Gp bloods. I did ask mine before I started down this route, she was vague. I'll see how I feel nearer the time. Not sure I can even be bothered to phone up and ask. You just get to the point where you give up with the gp system for this.  >:(

Plus, I'm in Scotland and up here they don't even give you utrogestan without a fight!

That's me stopped the cream for the month. Be interesting. On the oral prog last month, I got a period 3 days after stopping (as I would if I'd stopped a contraceptive pill). If same thing happens, I think it's a good indication I've been absorbing the cream. For this reason I didn't up my dose the last 2 days. Thought it'd be a good test on absorption. 👍
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 08:55:12 PM by CrispyChick »
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Mary G

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Re: Is this the right place to discuss compounded hormones?
« Reply #269 on: January 22, 2022, 08:43:36 PM »

Dangermouse, I'm also intrigued by your oestrogen levels.  I'm assuming that is pmol in which case, it's very low.

From reading your posts, it seems that you react very badly to oestrogen (gastric migraines etc) and therefore this low level is really good for you.

Crispy, if you are not suffering with menopause symptoms and also need low levels of oestrogen, the good news is your levels will drop further as you go further into menopause.   

This is interesting!
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