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[Jaylow]

So I'm on estrogel 2.5 pumps daily. Utrogestan 2 x 100mg for 10 days a month. I'm peri.

I'm still having my own cycle at the moment. Since ovulation day last week I'm getting all my usual symptoms, mainly dryness. Unbearable dryness, the surface of my eyes stick to my eyelids at night. They are now damaged. I've developed excema, my mouth is dried out. My whole body is shrivelled, even the palms of hands, soles of my feet. I itch, I'm so uncomfortable.

Anyway, today is the day I'm meant to start my 10 days of utro. Utro dries me out further. I can't bear it any more. I'd be having 10 days of that followed by 4 days of more dryness, then a week of period. Followed by around 5 days of feeling slightly better during which I ovulate. Then the cycle of dryness starts again. When I say I feel slightly better around ovulation, I mean just not quite as dry, but nowhere near how I used to feel before peri.

So this month I'm not taking utro. Risky, probably yes. But I can't take any more of this dried out feeling.

I'm wondering if I need more estrogel still. My flushes have improved, although I still slightly get them or often feel borderline flushy if that makes sense. My bone aches are improved. But nothing helps the dryness. When my periods finish I won't even get that 5 days a month relief. Should I up my estrogel? Could it be I'm not absorbing it? I'm still getting my natural period ( I try to co incide it with taking hrt so I just get the 1 bleed a month). If I don't take utro or am late with it, I get my natural period anyway.

What can I do? I'm a shrivelled up itching mess

[AgathaC]

You are trying to deal with the cause via HRT, being the drying effects of a lack of oestrogen.
In terms of treating the symptoms which are now bad, get some colloidal oatmeal and bathe in it. Warm rather than hot. Aveeno do a colloidal oatmeal bath treatment I think.
While you are in it, put cold flannels on your closed eyes and imagine the dryness and itchiness going away.
Loose cool clothing. Big cotton knickers. See if you feel mentally and physically a little less shrivelled xxx

[Jaylow]

Thanks I'll have a look for the oatmeal.
I can feel a severe dryness inside and outside my body, it's hard to explain. I'm using artificial tears and a nighttime gel for my eyes as the surface layer is damaged ( seeing a specialist re this). But it's hardly helping. This 2 weeks between ovulation and period is just the worst, and this is before I've taken the utro which will only make things worse.

[GypsyRoseLee]

I am not a doctor but I would say you need to either up your oestrogen in order to buffer you against Utrogestan, or reduce your Utrogestan. I was still having my own periods when I started Prof Studd's regime of 4 pumps of Estrogel + blob of Testogel + 100mg Utrogestan from the 1st - 7th of the month.

For a while I had my own period which started on the 25th and would last 3 days. Then I would have a light withdrawal bleed about 4 days after finishing Utrogestan.

Gradually, my own period faded away and now I just have a very light withdrawal bleed whilst still taking Utrogestan.

I cannot take any higher dose of Utrogestan because I am severely intolerant of any progesterone, it can tip me over into a very dark place and causes dreadful panic.

I think because I take such a high dose of oestrogen I barely notice when I take Utrogestan.

[Jaylow]

Thanks GRL
That's what I'm thinking, I need to up my dose of estrogel. My bleed / period is heavy though so would that suggest I'm getting enough oestrogen as my lining must be built up?
That's good that you barely notice the utro.
I'm having flushes tonight and my face is beetroot red. So the thought of starting tonight on my 10 days of utro.. well I'm not. I might start on 3 pumps of gel from tomorrow.

[Pinkjan4288]

ive just changed my Utrogestan to 100mg for 23 days a month. instead of 200mg for 14 days.

could you try that and up your oestrogen gel by half a pump daily?

[Hurdity]

What does your GP say pinkjan ( or meno specialist)?

Sometimes when women are still ovulating regularly and producing their own progesterone it is possibly less crucial to take the whole course of utrogestan - if the gynae advises this. I do know of other women who still had regular periods, were on HRT and who were progesterone intolerant and only took it some months - but only under medical supervision as otherwise the womb lining could get thicker.

Also if you take a very high oestrogen dose and absrob it very well you can actually suppress your natural cycle so that you don't ovulate and in that case I think because your own hormones wouldn't be breaking through you might feel less affected by the fluctuations and the vagaries of your own cycle. Maybe look into this?

GypsyRoseLee - isn't this what you did when you were still peri-menopausal - ie high oestrogen dose to suppress cycle - hence the 4 pumps?

Hurdity x

[Tc]

Jay Lou  How long do you have to wait to see the eye specialist.?
Are the eye preparations you are taking over the counter?
As for the skin. I know what you mean. And its so uncomfortable. I see agata mentioned oatmeal. I have recently started using Aveeno oatmeal lotion.The other lotions I was using before just seemed to sink straight in and the skin was parched again 10 minutes later but this one definitely seems to have a longer lasting effect.
I hope you get your eyes sorted out quickly.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Hurdity

Yes, Prof Studd advised that in order to alleviate peri anxiety + depression I would need 4 pumps of Oestrogel to suppress my own cycle as much as possible. It's the only thing that has worked for me, but it took a good while to work. For the first months I was still having my own period starting on the 25th. Followed by another withdrawal bleed after stopping my 7 days of 100mg Utrogestan.

Eventually my own period faded away and my withdrawal bleed from Utrogestan was very light. Prof Studd said this proved my cycle was being effectively suppressed and an internal scan showed my womb lining was staying nice and thin.

[Jaylow]

An update.
I didn't take the utrogestan last month and my period arrived pretty much when I expected. It was the most painful period I can remember, I was weak and dizzy and wiped out for a couple of days. I've continued with the estrogel and today have felt ovulation. So now I'm back to deciding what to do this month about taking the utrogestan.

Does this mean I'm producing enough progesterone naturally? Is it dangerous if I don't take the utrogestan? I still feel like I'm low on estrogen, the same usual dried out symptoms.

[NorthArm]

Jaylou- that was what has been happening to me - 2 years since started hrt, and before that for at least 8 - 10 years. The dryness is shocking isn't it?

Firstly, are you drinking enough water? Sorry if it's been asked before xx. I found that helped to a certain extent.

Secondly, have you thought about upping the gel? Maybe three pumps would be more beneficial. And using the Utrogestan vaginally at night might help with other symptoms.

Are you using a oestrogen pessary or cream for the vaginal dryness too? I've found Ovestin cream to be more helpful than the pessary.

Are you on any AD medications? SSRIs particularly can dry you out too.

If I were you, I'd probably try upping the gel first, and use the Utrogestan vaginally, and go from there.

Good luck with it all, and I hope you get your eyes sorted soon xx

[Hurdity]

Jaylou if you are taking extra oestrogen then you should take the extra progesterone too. It is difficult to know when you are ovulating so if you don't take the prog then your lining will build up and could give a heavier bleed when you do take it. Alternatively some bleeding could occur if you don't take the prog and also don't ovulate that month, through breakthrough bleeding if the lining gets too thick - so better to be safe unless you are under medical supervision and doc has agreed to give you regular scans with reduced dose of prog? Also while taking the prog it stops your lining building up further and changes the lining you have  and then it's shed when you stop. With the added prog you are taking a consistent dose for 12-14 days or so whereas with your natural cycle it builds to a peak and then declines all within the 14 days but only high maybe for a week in the middle? It is normally enough (prog) to shed your lining from your own natural cycle but perhaps not always when you add oestrogen? Is that a bit too garbled?!

Hurdity x

[Jaylow]

Countrygirl, I saw a consultant last year who just told me to keep doing what I'm doing ie taking artificial tears and a night time gel. Since then the gel has blocked a duct in my eye so I've stopped using it. I had a follow up hospital appt where I saw a different consultant who said I'm not to wear contact lenses again and my blocked duct should unblock itself (it hasn't)

Hurdity, no not garbled, I get what you're saying. It's just so hard to add to the dryness of my natural progesterone symptoms. I shall take the utro this month though. I know when I ovulate as I feel it. I take 2x tablets vaginally for 10 days a month usually.

Northarm, I've never drank enough water, but dryness has never been a problem to me until my estrogen starting lowering. I'm making a conscious effort to try and drink more though now. Yes I'm thinking of upping to 3 pumps a day and I might start on my next cycle. I already take utro vaginally 10 days per month, but I'm also trying to work it to fit with my natural cycle which is still happening. I take vagifem too sometimes but vaginal dryness isn't as bad as dryness everywhere else. No I'm not taking any AD medication.

I'm not quite sure I want to suppress my natural cycle as those few days around ovulation are what I live for, the only time I feel almost normal again. The thought of being dried out and no libido every single day is too depressing. My skin has lost its elasticity so quickly, I look like I've aged 10 years in the last 6 months. Is this really all down to lack of estrogen

[Night_Owl]

Hi Jaylou, re: Dryness - I'm at a different stage of the meno journey, further along and had to give up on HRT (due to worsening progestrone intolerance and increased migraines). I've experienced increased dryness, however I've found some relief from taking Sea Buckthorn Oil, Vitamin E with mixed tocopherols, Fish Oil, Celluvisc eye drops (they are prescribed for Sjogren's Syndrome), Coconut Oil (nether regions) and copious amounts of pump dispensed E45 cream.  Quite a list, I know - a multi-pronged approach!

I hope you find some relief.  Quite a few members have mentioned sea buckthorn oil, it seems to have mucous membrane moisturising properties.

I'm wondering if you could get away with taking ONE Utro 100mg x 10.

[Catcc]

Hi.  I'm not on HRT although have just had to start using Vagifem for urogenital issues :-(  which were a nightmare last month (another story).   One of the first things that hit me with the menopause, however, was that out of the blue I suddenly developed ultra dry skin, eczema,rosacea, fragrance allergy and problems with "dry eyes"  - my eyes were so painful every day was unbearable.  I was prescribed drops (many different types), and wipes and medication with nasty side effects,  but they all seemed to make my eyes worse and I could hardly open my eyes most days.  It took me a good few years to discover that my eyes were sore due to seborrheic dermatitis on my face and eyelids (it wasn't noticeable - in fact my eyelids looked normal). 

Anyway, long story short, after years of discomfort and a fortune spent on drops and creams and skincare, I have found that sea buckthorn oil capsules really do help.  And if I go without them I notice it.  Also I can't use any skincare on my eyelids at all (except tiny smear of vaseline), and I have to use unfragranced facial wash and moisturiser etc.  This really does keep it under control - along with probiotics (specifically saccharomyces boulardi - again I notice it when I stop taking it).  I know we're all different and this might not help you, but I also know that when I was desperate I would try anything, and I'm so glad I tried the above. 

It's shock how suddenly all these changes hit you at menopause.  Hope you feel better soon. x