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[Jeana1]

Hi

Sorry another question! How do we know if we are Progesterone intolerant, I have low mood and anxiety and wonder if this could be an indicator.

I am on another discussion so don't want to bore you all with the same stuff about me but I just have so many questions  because I'm desperate to get on top of my mental health, do meditate, go to CBT and take long walks, I feel like I am trying hard to help myself but wonder if the Mirena is holding me back.

I emailed Dr Karen Norton and she said there is compelling evidence that Utriogestin can help brain function but its very individual as each women will experince things differently. I have asked her for a link to read up on this and will pot it if she sends it to me.

I am 54 (nearly!) have a mirena coil and use 4 pumps of estrogel, have also just been prescribed Testim although consultant said I am in range for testosterone at my age.



Jeana

[Jeana1]

Hi Stellajane

thank you for your reply but what symptoms to ladies get to know if they are progesterone intolerance, how does it makes you feel, is it physical symptoms or psychological or both ?

i've read lots of ladies saying they are progesterone intolerance but i cant find any threads that say how they know or how they feel whilst on progesterone, i just don't know if i should get this mirena out and try a cycle on the utrogestin, im 54 nearly post meno and dont mind if i get a bleed if it helps with the anxiety and low mood, i feel premenstrual any way which makes me think my body needs a bleed?

jeana

[CLKD]

Very ill.  Apparently.

[Ladybt28]

Jeana - depending on how it was delivered and for how long - some types of progesterone (some were worse than others!) made me feel pre-menstural but like really bad PMT mentally and physically.  The physical I could deal with the one that messed with my head no so much or not at all.  The worst ones I was on were a 3 month type of HRT called Tridestra.  The oestrogen part was ok the progesterone gave me very low mood, anxiety, no motivation, depression bad, foggy head- it wasnt pleasant but it was nothing like what followed.  I also didn't get on with Femeston 2/10

The worst I have ever taken was continuous Provera and I got the whole range of very bad symptoms - anxiety, doom thinking, anxiety off the scale (couldnt leave the house nor did I want any of my family to in case they died!), insomnia, manic episodes,
under duvet depression - the lot!  In fact I was totally suicidal but when I stopped taking it  - it all went away.

Turns out both Tridestra has Medroxyprogesterone with just under months of pills.  Provera is 5mg medroxyprogesterone you take every day on a continuous cycle and I did 6 weeks of that.  Femeston has dydrogesterone as a component.

I obviously cannot have medroxyprogesterone thats for sure and learnt by trial.  I dont like dydrogesterone.  I am on Utrogestan vaginally.  I am not totally progesterone intolerant like some women here but my body obviously likes some types of progesterone better than others.  A mirina has levonorgestral in it.  I also learnt that having any form of progesterone given continuously didnt agree with me.  I have had other types of hrt with levonorgestral - they were ok but not continuously.

Hope that helps

[Perinowpost]

Hi Jeana1

A good indicator is whether you were able to tolerate the contraceptive pill (I wasn't), especially the pop. I would feel slightly depressed within a couple of days of taking it, and better within a couple of days of stopping.

Re hrt I couldn't tolerate noresthisterone at all- it made me irritable, angry and depressed.  Had a panic about attack after 1 tablet of Provera so daren't try again.  And had to have the Mirena (levonorgestrel) removed after low mood, weight gain and quashed libido (as mentioned to you before).

Conversely I feel good on Utrogestin for the first 4 days then hit a wall and cannot tolerate it for any more than 7 days.  Symptoms include feeling depressed, angry and irritable (I always want to divorce my husband then but luckily don't tell him), feeling hopeless, teary and wanting to run away from my life.

I know it doesn't sound good but it only lasts for a couple of days.  I am seeing a specialist in April to discuss other options. I don't want a hysterectomy because it's a major operation and does have its downsides.  But the skyla (jaydess) has been mentioned. It has just 25% of the strength of the Mirena so may be a viable option and I'm seriously considering it.

Hope this helps xx

[Jeana1]

Hello

Firstly Ladybt28 - this makes me sound stupid but I am going to ask anyway ! so levonorgestral is in the Mirena, were you having problems with that form of progesterone re anxiety, depression etc ? is Utrogestin the chemical or does that have a type of progesterone in it too, I am so very confused about the whole thing tbh. I feel like you that I would be better having progesterone only a few days per month, I'm ok about having a bleed if it helps to alleviate my anxiety and depression.

Obviously I know any form of HRT isn't a miracle cure and I have to work on my mental health myself too, I do CBT and meditate, have a pretty good diet (cakes sometimes too though!)

Its really interesting that you say some forms of progesterone make you feel premenstrual physically and mentally, that's how I feel, its like my nipples are the way they used to go when I was due on a little tender, not sore but you know what I mean and the slight period pain sensation, nothing as bad as I used to get but a similar feeling and also my mood seems to be similar to when I was due on, I just thought this was due to increasing to 4 pumps of Estrogel a couple of months ago but maybe its this mirena. Mmmmmm to have it wiped out or not, big decision!

Perinowpost - I know that as post meno women we can take progesterone continuously but like you i would rather take it for a few days per month, is this safe to do that, would it be enough to protect thickening ? I know I sound a bit stupid but I just don't get a full answer from the Consultant, would the bleed be the thing that stops the thickening? I am not sure if I was depressed on the pill, I feel like I've been depressed since I started my period at 13! manageable depression but the last three or so years things have got worse perticuly the anxiety in fact I had a breakdown 18 months ago and haven't worked since, just want a life back really and finding the right HRT will be a step in the right direction.

Thank you both for your replies it is very helpful and informative, I have learned more from the ladies on this site than the Consultant!

Jeana

[Ladybt28]

Jeana - you don't  sound stupid at all - there are never and stupid questions and there is nothing you cannot ask here!

Ref the Mirena - I always had copper coils then one time because I used to have bad periods the GP said "have a mirena" should help, but bearing in mind I was already having problems with hormones although I didn't know it at the time, it made my depression far worse.  I managed 2 months and had it taken out.  That was a while ago at least 14 years so I cant really remember exactly how it felt - I just knew it had to go after it went in because I felt so different if you see what I mean.

Ref levonorgestral generally in other forms of hrt it is in FemSeven, Nuvelle TS and the mirena.

Utrogestan is a bit different from the other synthetically manufactured progesterones by which I mean to describe is sythetically manufactured to work like our own progesterone but made in a test tube and have a drug name  Utrogestan is described as  micronised progesterone.  Sorry I cant say how it is made I am not chemist (some of our ladies here know more on the chemistry side)., but it does not have drug name.
In terms of using it, for only a few days in a cycle, it is perfectly fine.  NHS guidelines prescribe 12 days on a cycle.  Some consultants will allow 10 or 7, as long as the womb lining is shedding which is why there is a bleed which can be a bit gloopy!

When you increase oestrogel - you can get a bit of breast soreness but it should level out and stop.

My observation about anxiety, depression generally and hormonal depression and anxiety which are different things.  Some people suffer clinical depression ongoing which is more of a result of their brain chemistry and can be male and female.  I would say hormonal depression and anxiety is women whose mental health is govened by their cycles, pregnancy and hormonal fluctuations generally.

Just ask away whatever, you want to know and someone should be along to tell you what they know!

[Perinowpost]

Jeana1

Like Ladybt28 says there are no stupid questions, I have learnt everything I know from this forum and that's what it's for sharing and helping others.

The easiest way to remember it is oestrogen is the feel good hormone, and progesterone is the one many (but not all) struggle with.  Both are necessary.

Utrogestin is probably the best progesterone I have tried but it still isn't perfect. It's been discussed many times before on here but I wish there were more alternatives for those of us who are sensitive/intolerant to it.

Ladybt28 makes a good point about different types of depression.  Mine is triggered by hormones. I'm fine 95% of the time but suffer every time I have to take progesterone. Interestingly I had post natal depression after my first baby, but was fine with subsequent pregnancies and didn't suffer again until I hit peri meno. Have you looked at Proff Studd's research on all this? apologies if I've said this before.

I think from what you say you're right to minimise progesterone. To answer your question you would need to be monitored (have regular scans) to make sure this regime was working for you, but it would certainly help with side effects. I also have always found high levels of oestrogen make me feel worse and do better on an average amount (evorel 50).

In addition I eat clean, exercise (or try to), and take a b complex + d vitamins and a good quality omega 3.

Hope this helps xx

[racjen]

Hi Jeana1

I've asked the same question - where does a normal reaction to progesterone stop and  intolerance start, and I'm still not sure! I'm on Utrogestan (100mg vaginally for 10 days a month) and so far it's been pretty awful - the first day or two I feel quite good, then pretty quickly the depression sets in and by day 5 I'm really starting to feel suicidal, crying constantly and unable to leave the house. I've never made it past day 8. Then once the withdrawal is over the depression recedes and I go back to feeling horribly anxious most of the time. I tried a Mirena briefly - had to have it taken out after three days as it added panic into the equation. I'm going back to my GP tomorrow to ask if I can try Provera, as I've heard many women say it's been good for them, but if that doesn;t work I think I have to conclude I'm progesterone intolerant.

[Gardening Girl]

I have always had a problem with progesterone, and eventually, after trying others, ended up on Utrogestan 100, taken continuously (56 and post meno) and been on it 5 years. Has anyone had a problem where they start having problems with it after being on it for a period of time?

[Gardening Girl]

It took about 6 months to find the right regime, which was Evorel 100 patches and 100 mg Utrogestan continuously. That was about 5 years ago, but last year I started not feeling as good on it, and when the dr told me to reduce patch to 75, it has caused horrendous anxiety and very low mood. The trouble is I have suffered with depression and anxiety on and off for 20 odd years. Still not in a good place, and trying to sort things out.