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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 75 out now. (Spring issue, March 2024)

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Author Topic: It's not working  (Read 3425 times)

Tc

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 12:12:08 PM »

Thanks conolly. That's clearer.
As you say when symptoms aren't controlled as with mine it can be explained if blood test shows low level.

The thing is I have no idea what my level was before surgery. I was symptom free before so obviously my levels were ok for me as an individual. But I don't k ow what they were so I have no yardstick
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As I understand it the ovaries continue to make very low levels of E and androgens after meno but with no ovaries this is non resistant. Only small amounts frim adrenal glands and fat conversion.

In some ways in surgical meno you are starting with a level playing field without your own hormones interfering so there realy shouldn't be much fluctuation. Except maybe depending of the time of day you administer your hrt i guess.
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Conolly

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 01:07:13 PM »

Exactly, Tc. It seems that with surgical or early onset menopause HRT is not enough to control symptoms right away when compared to usual menopause. It seems particularly difficult to address hormonal withdrawal anxiety.

I think you are entitled to have blood tests as long as you don't have your symptoms controlled and the amount of oestrogen you're taking is relatively high, so absorption issues can be addressed by changing the administration route or even changing for synthetic versions.

Conolly X
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Ladybt28

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 01:29:34 PM »

I am in my 6th month of my oestrogel and utro regime and it is only now I realise how things have got any better.  It has been slow and almost imperceptible but over the last month I have noticed the change, Tc.  I have all my "bits" so I would reckon it is going to take quite a long time to balance any levels or symptoms when the body has had such a shock as yours.  From reading posts everyday here for nearly a year, I have noticed that those who have real problems it is rare to find a "quick fix" or get a quick response to treatment.  Symptoms seem to take quite a while to start to shift.

I am on 4 pumps (I know a lady here says the unofficial limit is 6 pumps) and I got to that level quite quickly but there was no miraculous definite time when my ability to function increased, it has just slowly an imperceptibly crept into being "nowhere near as bad as I was and better than last week"!  If I remember rightly you are still only really starting out and especially as it is surgical your timeframe may be longer.  I know I kept thinking "this isn't working, why isn't it working, what extra can I do".  In my case I just had to be patient but it is so hard when you feel so bad and 6 months is a hell of a long time when struggling with everyday life Tc.  I think I have said I have had 5 hrt regimes and in the early stages (although I gave them 3 months each bar 2 which was femeston and everol) I knew they were not right.  I got rid of my flushes quick with the gel and because I never took the utro orally I took the ladies advice here and did it vaginally I never got the progesterone problems I have had before. 

There are posts on the forum that suggest some women need to have testosterone to help synthesize (I don't know if I'm using the right terminology but I'm sure someone like Connolly or Hurdity will set it right  ;)) the oestogen for it to do its job properly and even in women "with bits" that dont chuck it out in the right amounts, they do at least have a tiny amount.  Without your bits I believe you dont have any?  - like I said I am sure our "guru's" will be able to comment.
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Joaniepat

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 06:43:17 PM »

If it's of any help, here is what I'm aiming for.

I had a TAH-BSO in 1997. I took oestrogen (Premarin as far as I recall) and all was well until about 2003 when my new GP refused to prescribe it because she was spooked by the flawed millennial studies. I was about 53/54 then, and eventually things started to go downhill, mainly with joint pain, but other things as well. I developed (or should I say, became aware of) VA a couple of years ago. I was interested in restarting systemic HRT to help with the VA and also to prevent osteoporosis, which my mother had. I was refused initially because of my age, which was 67 then. However, I was eventually given Tibolone, and also got a referral to the Chelsea & Westminster menopause clinic. They ditched the Tibolone and gave me Oestrogel and Vagifem, and also ordered a Dexascan which revealed osteopaenia.

On 2 pumps of Oestrogel I achieved only 89pmol/l, and on 3 pumps still <100 pmol/l. I was switched to Sandrena, 2 x 1mg sachets per day and had a slight improvement reaching 140 pmol. What I am aiming for is 200-250 pmol/l to prevent osteoporosis. It is also thought that if I can get my oestradiol levels beyond subtherapeutic, this will improve the VA. I am now using 125 mcg Estradot patches, and will get another hormone profile done in April.

My local oestrogen regime is the Estring plus daily Vagifem. I would like to add Ovestin for external use, but it usually makes me itch and last time I used it I had an allergic reaction of itching and swelling. So that one's on the back burner for the moment.

Since I have been back on systemic oestrogen, my joints have improved a lot. Mood is also generally better, with little anxiety these days, and sleep is much improved. Stamina is up and down. VA still bothersome, although better than it was. The urinary side of things is better but not perfect. Vulva still sore although I do have a few good days now.

At some stage testosterone was added to the mix, but it is hard to say how much difference this has made. It was prescribed to improve stamina.

So TC, I guess it's all a question of finding the right regime. I will have fingers and everything else crossed for you and hope your new one gives the desired results!

JP x
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Ladybt28

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 06:52:17 PM »

Hi Joaniepat I find it interesting that Chelsea and Westminster clinic do bloods.  No one here ever does any they just go off of symptoms. I am very luck because I don't have any VA at all.  Possibly because I started hrt early in peri, don't know if that makes a difference to it developing? My testosterone prescription is due to be issued in the next couple of days and I wonder how much difference it will make. I trying to not to pin too many hopes on it, in case I am disappointed.

I am really glad to hear you are finally getting your gel Tc! :)
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Tc

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 07:59:37 PM »

Well. What amazing replies. Thank you ladies.
Conolly thank you for your  well thought out practical advice.
Ladybt28 glad your feeling better and..
 
To both of you ladies thank you for your thoughts on surgical meno.

I sometimes feel as though by saying I'm in surgical meno people might think I'm trying to set mysekff apart
 I am soo not. The symptoms are the same...but.
Surgical meno is different, not worse or better, just different and thank you so much for acknowledging that. Which leads me to
Joaniepat. Thank you so much for sharing  your story. Resonates with me cos of the surgery and also the ostio which every woman in my family seems to have.

I must admit my immediate symptoms have been so overwhelming and sudden that I have found it hard to think about the long term effects of surgical meno.

But i have seen it in my family mum and both her sisters after having everything removed in their 30's and early 40's.  Having said that  my nan never had a  op in her life but the ostio kicked in her 50's.

I had to turn mobile off today but came home to these wonderful replies.xx


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CLKD

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Re: It's not working
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 08:33:36 PM »

Surgical meno is sudden.  Shocking for the body as usually oestrogen levels drop over a few years. 
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