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[Ketchworth15]

Hello everyone

I'm new here but been spending hours reading the amazing support and advice you all give.  My story is I'm 51, periods stopped over a year ago and have tried 3 different sequential HRTs (all for at least 3 months)  - all fantastic until I got to the progesterone part when I just lurch into appalling personality change - anxiety, rage, deep depression, unable to sleep - it's pretty unbearable.  Just finished 3 months of Tibolone hoping that might dilute things, but menopause symptoms have returned with a vengeance along with shattering tiredness (I don't think Tibolone has enough of an oestrogen effect).  My GP practice are kind but rushed and not particularly au fait with latest thinking.  I'd love to try Duoleve but it's not available in Scotland.  I am pushing to have my thyroid tested as I'm also suffering from a lot of underactive symptoms (freezing all the time etc etc plus very strong family history) but in the meantime today the GP suggested ditching HRT and going down the AD route.  I'm not sure what to do - too exhausted to make any decisions.  I didn't react well to Floxetine when I was prescribed it for severe PMS but I did take Citalapram for 6 months for PND 15 years ago that worked well.  That's been my only experience so far.  I am usually a super energetic, very positive multi tasker type but have had to reduce work hours and stop exercising as my energy levels are so depleted and it's making me so miserable.  Am being vile to my poor sons which is tough for them as it's only me at home (single mum, no extended family).  Sorry, I have rambled on, but if my story strikes a chord with anyone, please advise about what I should do next - I'm at my wits end. Thank you!

[sheila99]

Hello, welcome to the forum. I don't know much about this but I'm sure someone more knowledgable will be along soon, just didn't want to leave you with no replies. Which ones have you already tried? If you look under the Treatments tab you'll find the options for prog. Have you tried utrogestan or the mirena yet? As you are post meno a longer cycle could be an option too so are on prog less often.
  I would be very, very wary of taking ADs, it sounds to me that you need oestrogen not ADs. You do need thyroid & vit D levels checking too. Has the HRT helped your energy levels?
  Try putting progesterone intolerance in the search box, I'm sure there will be other posts on it.

[Golden retriever]

Hi sheila99
I too have a major problem with progesterone. I started off on the Femoston and when I was on the 2/10 and the second month in started to see that on the second type of tablets ( with progesterone) I was becoming irritated, low mood etc.
fast forward a few months later and decided due to low moods and also anxiety to switch to estradot 50 patch and utrogestran 200mg once daily orally as directed by my gynecologist.
Well omg that form of progesterone was unbearable, very depressed, headaches, sedative type effect. Went back to the Femoston and although low ish mood can tolerate it much better than the utrogestran.
I was soooo close to thinking I needed ads
The main thing we take hrt is to reduce symptoms of menopause so please take your time .
You will find a form that suits. There is nothing wrong with ads but the whole point in taking hrt is to try and level our hormones to feel some what normal,
My idea is I take one tablet to try and level things and not ads to counteract that.
Be strong, find the right hrt and you will feel like yourself again xx GR

[RubyLove]

Dear Ketchworth, was one of your types of HRT oestrogel plus vaginal Utrogestan? I am on this and yes, the Utrogestan time is not good but my GP says I only have to take it for 7 days. It only gets bad from Day 4, so I have 3-4 days of bad PMS symptoms. Might be worth trying is it wasn't one of the types you tried before..?

[Ketchworth15]

Thank you lovely ladies for welcoming me and your characteristically practical suggestions. Am very grateful.

RubyLove - I am very interested in your oestrogen gel/progesterone pessary solution, thank you for taking the time to suggest it, as I have only tried Elleste, Femeston and Tibolone - all tablet form.  I didn't actually realise you could take prog that way.  Can I ask if you carried on with the gel during the 7 days of prog or do you have to stop the Oestrogel during that time?  In other words, was the pattern basically 3 weeks of oestrogen only and one week of vaginal Utrogestan?  I'll see how my thyroid test comes out and in the meantime am stopping the Tibolone and just taking a break for a few weeks.  Kind of curious to see what my actual meno symptoms will feel like again.  Possibly an error given Christmas in 10 days (?!) but we'll see! If I feel the need (almost certain that I will) then I will definitely present the 7 day Utrogestan as an option to my GP.
 Thanks again, folks, just so desperate to feel like myself again and get even a tiny bit of energy back.  And you have convinced me that I'm better off perservering with getting the HRT right rather than embarking on ADs as it's so obviously hormonally related.

[Conolly]

Hello Ketchworth15,


There's a thread on the Utrogestan/Oestrogel regimen https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23372.0.html


Thyroid issues should be a priority before HRT and definitely before AD treatment.


Conolly X

[Hurdity]

Hi Ketchworth15

 

The aim of HRT is that ideally it should be personalised so if your GP is willing to do this then that's fantastic! I should point out that the licensed regime of utrogestan is 12 days per month x 200 mg for cyclical use and 100 mg per day 25 out of 28 days cycle (or every day) for continuous use. However this regime can be varied with approval of the doc - and hopefully the GP would be willing to monitor you with this low duration (7 day) progesterone regime to ensure your womb lining does not thicken?

I think Duavive has been licensed in the whole of the UK - at least I thought there was no difference in Scotland - I presumed NICE applied to UK not individual countries? In any case the oestrogen component is fairly low dose and it is the equine oestrogens rather than estradiol - although maybe you are not bothered about that? If you want to try this one I would push for it.

ADs are NOT indicated as first line of treatment for menopausal symptoms and your doc is quite wrong to suggest them just because you are progesterone intolerant.

When you get your thyroid results do ask for a print-out and then comre back here if necessary to report them - SueLW knows a lot about this so will be able to advise.

Hurdity x

[NorthArm]

RubyLove, that's me on Utrogestan as well, my specialist has let me try a longer cycle of 5weeks patch only and 7 days Utrogestan.

I'm taking the Utrogestan orally (day 5 today yuck!!) but am thinking of trying it vaginally next round. Do you use the 200mg for those days, and do you get a decentish bleed on it? Does it ‘dry' you out as much as orally does?

xx

[Ketchworth15]

Thanks so much for all the info, Hurdity.  Unfortunately Scottish NHS is pretty much a separate entity from England and Wales (good in some ways though - we all get free prescriptions which as a Londoner I find amazing) - I explained to my GP that some NHS trusts are now approving Duoleve but she just thumbed through her directory and said it wasn't there and she'd never heard of it. The extraction/source does bother me though.  I do think she might allow me on the 7 day only prog regime if I twist her arm a bit.   Will def come back here with thyroid results.  As soon as  I asked very politely if I might have the actual figures if I was in the 'normal' range she started to look a bit shifty (I'm obviously not the only one to ask).  I'm now thoroughly convinced that ADs are not the way to go; great to get pretty much a general consensus on that one. So helpful!

[Ketchworth15]

Thanks very much, Conolly, for the helpful link! Loving this forum!

[Conolly]

Hello Ketchworth15,


You're welcome, dear. Good luck reading that long thread 


Conolly X

[Hurdity]

Thanks so much for all the info, Hurdity.  Unfortunately Scottish NHS is pretty much a separate entity from England and Wales (good in some ways though - we all get free prescriptions which as a Londoner I find amazing) - I explained to my GP that some NHS trusts are now approving Duoleve but she just thumbed through her directory and said it wasn't there and she'd never heard of it. The extraction/source does bother me though.  I do think she might allow me on the 7 day only prog regime if I twist her arm a bit.   Will def come back here with thyroid results.  As soon as  I asked very politely if I might have the actual figures if I was in the 'normal' range she started to look a bit shifty (I'm obviously not the only one to ask).  I'm now thoroughly convinced that ADs are not the way to go; great to get pretty much a general consensus on that one. So helpful!

Just a point of info even though you've probably decided againast it - if you asked your GP about DUOLEVE then no wonder she couldn't find it as the product is called DUAVIVE!! That's interesting about NHS Scotland - I knew prescriptions were free there, but I thought that was a Govt thing rather than NHS? I also thought NICE covered the whole of the UK ie Guidelines and drug licensing? That being the case - if it is - then Duavive should be available. Interesting though that I have twice asked for the (HRT) menus to be updated to include Duavive but they haven't been suggesting it is not available everywhere?

Hurdity x

[Ladybt28]

Duavive is available in Northern Ireland Ketchworth15 and we are very weird here also my one and only meno consultant at the NHS clinic here had heard of it so it is licensed for use throughout the whole uk, bearing in mind here in NI we live in the dark ages generally.  The consultant said she thought it would be quite good (not for me but generally) and had done a lot of reading about it

I use utrogestan vaginally on a cycle and I'm rubbish with progesterone.  I most definitely cannot take it continuously and I have to say that a lot of GP's etc push for continuous when you are post meno but it is much harder to balance the oestrogen and progesterone continuously. To be honest the side effects I get taking it this way are limited and my bleeds are ok. I'd rather have them than the horrible side effects of continuous progesterone.  I have dropped my utro phase down to 10 days and am considering dropping them to 7.

I had years of AD's when in fact it was my hormones - GP's love them as the first line of fixing anything (don't mind my nasty GP comments - I don't hold them in very high regard  )  don't be pushed that way when you know in your heart of hearts is hormonal and possibly thyroid issues - oh and don't get me started on the UK system and thyroid test results!  At least your GP had the decency to look shifty!

[Albertadawn]

Hello everyone

I'm new here but been spending hours reading the amazing support and advice you all give.  My story is I'm 51, periods stopped over a year ago and have tried 3 different sequential HRTs (all for at least 3 months)  - all fantastic until I got to the progesterone part when I just lurch into appalling personality change - anxiety, rage, deep depression, unable to sleep - it's pretty unbearable.  Just finished 3 months of Tibolone hoping that might dilute things, but menopause symptoms have returned with a vengeance along with shattering tiredness (I don't think Tibolone has enough of an oestrogen effect).  My GP practice are kind but rushed and not particularly au fait with latest thinking.  I'd love to try Duoleve but it's not available in Scotland.  I am pushing to have my thyroid tested as I'm also suffering from a lot of underactive symptoms (freezing all the time etc etc plus very strong family history) but in the meantime today the GP suggested ditching HRT and going down the AD route.  I'm not sure what to do - too exhausted to make any decisions.  I didn't react well to Floxetine when I was prescribed it for severe PMS but I did take Citalapram for 6 months for PND 15 years ago that worked well.  That's been my only experience so far.  I am usually a super energetic, very positive multi tasker type but have had to reduce work hours and stop exercising as my energy levels are so depleted and it's making me so miserable.  Am being vile to my poor sons which is tough for them as it's only me at home (single mum, no extended family).  Sorry, I have rambled on, but if my story strikes a chord with anyone, please advise about what I should do next - I'm at my wits end. Thank you!

Ketchworth15, I have just stopped using my progesterone cream because I was feeling so anxious, depressed and started having bad heartburn a couple of weeks ago. I read that this could be all due to progesterone so I'm leaving it for a week to see if things settle down. So no, you're not alone!

[Albertadawn]

Thank you lovely ladies for welcoming me and your characteristically practical suggestions. Am very grateful.

RubyLove - I am very interested in your oestrogen gel/progesterone pessary solution, thank you for taking the time to suggest it, as I have only tried Elleste, Femeston and Tibolone - all tablet form.  I didn't actually realise you could take prog that way.  Can I ask if you carried on with the gel during the 7 days of prog or do you have to stop the Oestrogel during that time?  In other words, was the pattern basically 3 weeks of oestrogen only and one week of vaginal Utrogestan?  I'll see how my thyroid test comes out and in the meantime am stopping the Tibolone and just taking a break for a few weeks.  Kind of curious to see what my actual meno symptoms will feel like again.  Possibly an error given Christmas in 10 days (?!) but we'll see! If I feel the need (almost certain that I will) then I will definitely present the 7 day Utrogestan as an option to my GP.
 Thanks again, folks, just so desperate to feel like myself again and get even a tiny bit of energy back.  And you have convinced me that I'm better off perservering with getting the HRT right rather than embarking on ADs as it's so obviously hormonally related.

I just had another thought that might help-you can use the Mirena coil so that you don't get the side effects, or not as bad 😀