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[HappenstanceMarmite]

Good afternoon

Just been Rx Testogel to add on to my Tibolone, which I've been taking since earlier this year. My Consultant Gynae said to use one whole pump every three days. So last night I did the one pump but it seemed like an awful lot of gel ...especially compared to the “pea sized” amounts I read of in this forum! and considerably more than three peas (if that makes sense?!). One pump covered my entire abdomen and some of my upper inner arm 😱

So... I wondered about taking a smaller amount each day. But I need to consider the half life of Testosterone and whether I will be getting a big old rush on Day 1 vs hardly any by Day 3? Or is it a slow release molecule which would make hardly any difference if I decided to use a third of a pump every day. What say you chaps?

Another consideration is that the Testogel from pump is very runny so a pea size would be difficult to achieve 😂

[Sooze]

Be very careful. I'm on Tibolone and Tostran (which is stronger than Testogel, I know) and I'm doing a petit pois to pea size blob every 3 days.  I started in May and I'm still on my first canister, and I'd recommend taking it very slowly. I did too much to start and had some odd side effects (look for my posts) but all is good on this amount.
HTH

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Hi Sooze. I have seen some of your posts but not the ones you mentioned. I've been searching for Testosterone threads but couldn't find what I needed to know.

Can you please expand on your experience re side effects? And/or link me to your aforementioned thread please? Have to say, after yesterday's pump of T I've been buzzing! But probably just coincidence as probably too soon to see a reaction.

[HappenstanceMarmite]

@Sooze:

I managed to find your posts re Testosterone and how you had to reduce the dose dramatically.

I think we have similarities in our physiological responses to hormones. I too am sensitive to Progesterone - even the amount in the Mirena coil made me feel dreadful. But I also experienced the super charged libido after a couple of weeks on Tibolone! It was incredible and all consuming. Felt like a horny teenage boy FFS 😱😂. But that all settled down.

I definitely felt the effect of the full pump of Testogel yesterday. I was quite hyperactive, also a bit of anxiety crept in as the day went on. I'm going to do a smaller dose each day next time, but I would prefer to be accurate with this so am considering using a syringe.

Any further comments, opinions or advice very welcome from anyone please 😊

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Any other opinions, advice or experiences welcome please 🤗

[Hurdity]

Hi Happen..etc

It's different to compare exactly especially between products of different concentrations (of testosterone)  as well as different ingredients - however do have a look at this thread and especially the first post: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39588.15.html where I've set out the different amounts of T that the different products contain. You will see that the Testogel pump pack is more concentrated than the original Testogel 1% sachets (which I think are now available again?) and Testim (no longer available). Looking at that 1 pump does give quite a high dose of T yes. Also that is quite a high dose to start with.

The other question you asked is about the half-life - very sensible question. From what I can make out it does last a bit longer in the body than estradiol - but I don't think the pharmacokinetics ( how it is metabolised in the body over time) has been studied in women. It's a bit complicated but the info seems to say it reaches steady state serum levels from Day 2 but not sure what happens then if you are only applying twice a week as the info also says it starts to decrease approx 24 hours after the last application. Therefore it's not really an additive thing - ie you can't say X amount of T gel applied twice a week will give you the same as X amount given daily in smaller doses.

Personally I would want to apply either daily or every two days for maximum benefit. Also the pea-sized blob is a good rule of thumb so I agree a good idea to get a syringe.

Last but not least you are adding it to Tibolone so it's not as though you are an "average" menopausal women whose T is declining as yours will already have been boosted (theoretically) by the Tib - so I would want to increase by only a tiny bit - remembering that the full effects - benefits and side effects can take weeks or months to become apparent.

I wouldn't actually want to add T to Tib but would prefer to take the 3 hormones separately - only in that I would not want to risk becoming T dominant without also increasing oestrogen. However if your consultant gynae says it's OK then I can't argue with that - except to say I doubt there has been any research on adding T to Tib in women - but stand to be corrected here!

Hope this helps.

Hurdity x

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Thank you Hurdity for your detailed response. I actually decanted one pump into a syringe and applied a third of it this morning.

Regards the Tibolone - I find it suits me well as I have always had issues with any Progesterones including the Mirena coil. When I initially took Tibolone earlier this year, it gave me a great boost in energy and mood, also libido. But after a few months, it all those lovely effects seemed to diminish and I was left feeling flat and exhausted (after any sort of activity or work). Went back to my Cons Gynae and, after referring to Nick Panay with whom she works, was told to try doubling up the Tibolone dose to 5mg. Was a disaster! After a couple of weeks I developed dreadful PMS type symptoms and bleeding (which I'd happily gone without on the 2.5mg Tibolone). I tolerated it for a few weeks as I thought it might be a matter of getting used to it, but I contacted my Consultant and she said to go back to original dose of Tibolone and we would review after a month.

Which is where I am now - settled back down on Tibolone 2.5mg but still in need of something else to try to get some energy! Saw my Consultant last week and (again, under Nick Panay's advice) have added the Testogel.

But I am going to heed the advice given by you and Sooze regarding being careful and will monitor closely.

FYI, I had a bilateral oopherectomy in January this year so my baseline Testosterone was probably at rock bottom. The Tibolone definitely had an impact on that. I just feel I needed a wee bit of a top up. Does that sound rational or am I being an example of a‘worried well' ?! 😂

[HappenstanceMarmite]

So I tried using a syringe this morning. I couldn't get the top of the pump off so had to squirt a pump's worth into a small dish. I found it very difficult to suck it up into the (2ml) syringe as there was not enough volume of gel. All it drew up was mostly air. So I gave up and just took what looked like a third and discarded the rest.

Can anyone advise how they go about decanting Testogel from the pump into a syring please?

[Sooze]

Not sure if the pump is the same as mine, but did you take the plunger out of the syringe, pump into the empty barrel then replace the plunger?  If you invert the syringe and tap the side of the syringe you should be able to get all the air to the top of the syringe so you can expel it & measure the gel accurately.
HTH

[HappenstanceMarmite]

OMG! Genius! Why didn't I think of that as I use syringes on a regular basis FFS 

Thanks Sooze 👍

[Hurdity]

Hi again Happen...

I am still puzzled by the addition of testosterone to Tibolone - despite it being advised by Nick Panay, just because when you were advised to increase Tibolone you were also increasing the oestrogen-like part of this product as well as the testosterone part. If you have had a BSO then this will also have affected your oestrogen levels so I am just surprised that this is not being increased too. I presume the clinic will be monitoring your T and SHBG levels ?

Whatever happens I hope you feel better and would be interested to hear how you get on!

Hurdity x