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Author Topic: Utrogestan again  (Read 7545 times)

racjen

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Utrogestan again
« on: September 18, 2018, 04:13:09 PM »

I am so confused by my reaction to Utrogestan - it seems to keep changing. Having found it impossible to tolerate at 200mg for 10 days every 3 months I've been trying 100mg for 10 days every month. A pattern has emerged: initially I feel much better - less anxious, calmer, just more normal, but terrible insomnia and constant stomach ache. Then around day 5 the depression and weepiness starts and from there on it's all downhill, in fact I never make it through the full 10 days. I'm confused though that it makes me feel better to start with - does that just mean the dose is too high? I tried doing the alternate day routine last month, but even one day off means I bleed constantly throughout the 10 days, plus the on/off nature of it made me feel crap. I had the bright (?) idea of freezing the capsules so you can cut them in half accurately - is that a mad idea? Has anybody tried it (unlikely I know, I'm clutching at straws now).
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Traceylr

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2018, 04:33:03 PM »

hi there,
what dose is your oestrogen and how do you take the utrogestan?
I use 50mcg estradot changed twice a week and utrogestan 100mg capsule vaginally continuously . I couldnt tolerate the utrogestan orally ( depression/ lethargy/ loss of libido) but its made a huge difference taking it vaginally, no side effects to speak of today but... I cant afford to increase the oestrogen or miss taking the utrogestan as this results in spotting . A steady constant dose ( of both ) is apparently what suits me best. I did try alternate days utro but it caused bleeding. I also plan to have regular uterine scans to ensure the utrogestan is doing its job ( last one 2.9 mm)
Never thought of freezing the capsules ( to halve the dose)  as 200mg  for minimum of 10/12 days per month or 100mg daily is the recommended dose for uterine protection It may be worth seeking more info with regards to minimum effective , protective , progesterone dose.
Hope this is helpful.
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Conolly

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2018, 05:34:29 PM »

Hello racjen,


Freezing is probably going to inactivate the progesterone. Some ladies on another forum (I think it's Mumsnet, but I'm not sure) have ****ed a small hole with a needle and squirted half the content of an Utrogestan capsule just before inserting it.


Conolly X
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Hurdity

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 05:58:45 PM »

Re the freezing of utrogestan - a few years ago (2011!) on here another member did that for the same reason - but not sure of the outcome.  I had a search but can't find reference to it so I think we must have discussed this by e-mail as we were in touch back then.

In terms of temperature inactivation - the product info does not list any special storage conditions for utrogestan re temperature so it may well be OK in this regard. However more to the point would be that if taking vaginally this is not advisable because you would not want it to be frozen when you inserted it  ::), so the progesterone from the cut end would leak out too quickly and therefore even less would probably get to your uterus. The capsule is designed to at least be slightly slow release ie overnight rather than all at once so I don't think your uterus would be protected so well - especially as you would be using much less than the licensed dose. If using orally then I doubt this would be sufficient (50 mg) - but depends on your oestrgoen dose.

Can you explore these different options with your specialist? For example given your circumstances could you be put on a shorter cycle under supervision with regular scans? Can you get a referral to Bournemouth (the nearest NHS menopause clinic to the West Country!) - although I think there is a long wait?

Unfortunately the amount of progesterone needed to protect the uterus is higher than some women can tolerate taken vaginally or orally. Orally especially, because so much is lost - you need to take a higher amount. The initial feeling of calm is probably because it has a sedative effect and in small doses some women find this helpful but in larger doses or as it builds up the sedation can become fatigue, lethargy, bloating, headache etc - not nice.

I am so sorry to hear of your ongoing problems and do hope you manage to find a regime that works for you so that at least you feel better more of the time than not.

Hurdity x
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racjen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 06:27:40 PM »

Thanks everyone, it was a long shot but I'm so desperate I'll try anything. I'm on Evorel 100 so I know that in the long term 50mg of UTrogestan wouldn't be enough anyway. And I do already take it vaginally but it gives me pretty constant side effects, but just wanting to do some research myself while waiting for the incredibly slow grind of the NHS wheels. The consultant Gynae I saw 2 weeks ago in Torbay (for 15 mins)  failed to make the immediate follow-up appointment she said she would, so I've had to chase it up and now have to wait till Oct 2nd just to get Mirena fitted to see if that works better. But as far as I know she's not particularly a menopause expert - despite my quite extreme situation I simply cannot get a referral to a specialist menopause clinic :(.
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Conolly

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 07:51:43 PM »

Hello Hurdity,


Freezing may not inactivate progesterone but the thawing process should be done the right way, the same principle applies to frozen food  ;)


Hello again racjen,


I'm so sorry you're not having the support you deserve from the NHS. Have you already tried the combined patches with  both estradiol and synthetic progesterone?


Conolly X
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racjen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 08:12:33 PM »

Yes, trouble is I need a high level of estradiol due to chemotherapy-induced sudden menopause, and as far as I can make out the only way to get this is to do separate estradiol and progesterone. I did try oral Elleste, and FemSeven patches very early on, but neither did anything at all for me. The NHS just doesn't seem to know what to do with me....
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racjen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 04:32:27 PM »

Well, I only made it to Day 7 this time - the constant stomach ache, nausea and increasing depression have just floored me on top of dealing with daily anxiety. Stopped taking it yesterday and today the withdrawal depression is the worst ever, have spent the whole day crying and ended up retreating to bed for the afternoon. I just hope this doesn't drag on for too long, have to keep reminding myself that
I know what's causing it, I'm not just depressed....If nothing else it has at least convinced me it's worth trying a Mirena instead.
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Hurdity

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 07:50:39 PM »

racjen :bighug:

Hurdity x
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robotwars

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 07:58:41 PM »

I know exactly how you feel, I take utrogestan 100 orally, when I start taking it I feel so much better but the longer I take it the worse I feel, I also suffer with stomach pains and low mood plus IBS gets worse, consultant wants me to take it every day, but I have been stopping every 3/4 weeks depending on how long I can preserve for, I stop for 2 weeks then start again, i'm not sure whether to preserve or not, would be very interested if you do find a way through this maze!!!
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SueLW

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 08:04:23 PM »

Racjen are you using 100mg Utrogestan every night vaginally or every other night?

If you are doing it every night, next time try every other night.  Dr Newson said that 100 every other night is considered the same as 100 oral every night and gives better uterine protection because it's getting to the right place.

I was doing pretty well on 100 every other night vaginally.  I thought "well this feels nice so I'll take it every night to see it if helps my fluid retention" and I tried it over the end of last week/weekend.  BIG mistake.  I became a zombie in a very few days and now, about 3 days after going back to alternate nights I'm still tired out and depressed.  I'm hoping tomorrow I'll start to even back out a bit. I take it continuously. 

It's worth trying because you feel good at first, just need to find out how to avoid the build up.
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SueLW

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 08:07:16 PM »

I know exactly how you feel, I take utrogestan 100 orally, when I start taking it I feel so much better but the longer I take it the worse I feel, I also suffer with stomach pains and low mood plus IBS gets worse, consultant wants me to take it every day, but I have been stopping every 3/4 weeks depending on how long I can preserve for, I stop for 2 weeks then start again, i'm not sure whether to preserve or not, would be very interested if you do find a way through this maze!!!

Try it vaginally every other night.  I've been reliably told that is the equivalent of 100 every night orally so it's ample for continuous dosing.  As I've just said above, I felt I missed it on the nights I wasn't using it so I increased to every night vaginally last weekend.  Nope!  That's not good for me.  Now I have to wait for the build up to ease off and back to every other night it is.
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Kathleen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2018, 08:10:33 PM »

Hello racjen.

I'm  sorry that you are suffering so much.

I am post meno and using 3 Oestrogel pumps and 100mg Utrogestan vaginally and still feel horrible  so I completely understand your frustration and despair. Do you have times of the day when you feel better or are your symptoms constant throughout the day? Have you had any advice about your nausea and stomach ache and has it been confirmed that these symptoms are indeed due to Utrogestan rather than continuing low oestrogen?

I've been following your journey and I sincerely hope that you find a successful regime soon.

Wishing you well.

K.
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racjen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2018, 08:36:19 PM »

My oestrogen is fine, around 1000pmol when last checked a few months ago. I have tried every other night on Utrogestan and it just resulted in constant bleeding, still the stomach problems and a kind of see-sawing of mood so not much better. Maybe I didn't try it for long enough, but I'm fed up with having to work this all out for myself. So far the specialist NHS input (after a year of major problems) has been 15mins with a consultant gynaecologist who doesn't really seem to have a clue. No NHS menopause clinics in this area so the general attitude seems to be - tough....
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Kathleen

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Re: Utrogestan again
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 09:04:25 PM »

Hello again racjen.

You do seem to have been left to flounder which is heartbreaking given your extreme symptoms.

 Mary G's opinion is that many women give up on HRT altogether and then suffer in silence because the treatment they've been given is inadequate.

All you can do is continue to fight your corner and of course the lovely ladies of the forum will be with you every step of the way.

Wishing you well and sending hugs.

K.
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