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[Annie0710]

I had an itchy area on my back whilst on oestrodose, but never on oestrogel and I used it with a really open mind that they were the same

[Donna-paul]

I agree there's is a difference to some women I was on oestrogel and doing ok went on oestrodose and had awful migraines. Put it down to hrt to start with saw gynaecologist and he had never heard of Oestrodose wasn't in his book. Really struggled so tried oestrogel and no headaches I am also taking progestrone all the time as he said fluctuations of hormones don't help. But I'm sure it was the oestrodose.

[Lanzalover]

Good morning

Having used both products I have to agree with Optimist


Ostrodose was thinner(almost the consistency of water) smelt strongly of alcohol and took forever to dry I have no idea why this should be but I am not willing to give it another try and will continue with Oestrogel.

Have a nice day
Lanzalover x

[MIS71MUM]

This is so confusing!

My Oestradose seems thicker than the oestrogel! For me, there doesn't seem to be a difference smell wise.

Could it be that we are seeing differences in the products dependent on how we store it and how full the container is?

I and many others, will hope/need that the products be exactly the same!!

[Hurdity]

I agree there's is a difference to some women I was on oestrogel and doing ok went on oestrodose and had awful migraines. Put it down to hrt to start with saw gynaecologist and he had never heard of Oestrodose wasn't in his book. Really struggled so tried oestrogel and no headaches I am also taking progestrone all the time as he said fluctuations of hormones don't help. But I'm sure it was the oestrodose.

The reason the gynae hadn't heard of Oestrodose is because the estradiol gel produced by Besins is not known by this name in UK - it is known as Oestrogel. If you read my first post in this thread you will see that it is given different names in different companies with different outer packaging (ie the pump pack and the carton - sometimes the leaflet) but the inner pouches containing the estradiol gel are all the same and produced and filled by Besins in Belgium (according to what they've told me). Therefore there is no option to buy Oestrodose - it is Oestrogel! The leaflet (and the pump pack) should say manufactured by Besins.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

This is so confusing!

My Oestradose seems thicker than the oestrogel! For me, there doesn't seem to be a difference smell wise.

Could it be that we are seeing differences in the products dependent on how we store it and how full the container is?

I and many others, will hope/need that the products be exactly the same!!

I would suggest this is the most likely explanation. My tube of Testim gel for example varies in consistency - this morning it was really thick - this is the same small tube that was runny when it was warmer - so this will affect how quickly it dries and how much is absorbed. I can imagine this effect would be magnified the greater the quantities of gel you use.

Hurdity x

[Conolly]

Hello ladies,


A quick look on the internet shows both Oestrogel and Oestrodose (Estrogel in the US, Gynokadin in Germany) leaflets with minor inconsistencies regarding the 'inactive' ingredients.
Some say carbomer 934p, others say carbopol 980nf, some say alchool 95% (ethanol), others say 96%.


Besins International is a global company with manufacturing plants in France, Belgium, Spain and Thailand so it's very likely that the 'inactive' ingredients (carbomer or carbopol, ethanol, purified water and triethanolamine) are not manufactured by the same plant. If the Oestrogel sold in the UK comes mostly from the same plant and the Oestrodose comes mostly from another plant that could explain the difference.


Carbomer or Carbopol (brand name) are carbon polymers used as thickeners and the number means their molecular weight, so 934 is different from 980 thus the difference in consistency. I have also found that they ARE DIFFERENT. According to the manufacturer the 934p has BENZENE and the 980 doesn't! https://www.lubrizol.com/Life-Sciences/Products/Carbopol-Polymer-Products
I think Besins may have changed it recently, so there must be some old ones still on the market.

Of course temperature is also important. A friend of mine who lives in South America keeps her Oestrogel bottle in the fridge. Temperatures above 25 C happen throughout the year.


I think your personal experiences are fascinating. All of you who have actually used the product should send Besins an email with a detailed account of your experience. I think this is the scientific approach, instead of just trusting their word on the matter.


Best wishes,
Conolly X

[Hurdity]

Blimey - it's a minefield (in terms of all the different products etc)! As for Besins itself - yes it's huge! However when I started to look into it I ignored looking at similar products in other continents (eg US which manufacture Estrogel - not sure if it's by Besins) because of what Besins said about the UK supply which is all we have to go on. I haven't come across differences in the Carbomer (nor the alcohol percentage) - all the ones I've looked at say 980 including Gynokadin (which I hadn't heard of!) which seems to be made in Germany by a company (Dr Kade) working in partnership with Besins - but has the same ingredients - and presumably just for the German market.

Yes I said I thought temperature was important re consistency right at the beginning and to me is the most obvious explanation. I agree as I said earlier that it is intriguing and puzzling that differences in response continue to be reported but only by some women. Side effects such as allergic reactions are different and potentially much more serious in terms of the product - re potential fraud if there is a "fake" product on the market with different ingredients than listed.

I had prepared a long post suggesting along similar lines (re going back to the manufacturer) - and I was listing all the possible explanations I could think of accounting for perceived differences but a bit busy at the moment. In it I was also going to suggest that anyone who has side effects from it or who notices consistent differences in consistency ( which can't be explained by temperature) to go back to the manufacturer or send a sample to whoever monitors this sort of thing - for testing, because if it is not what it says it is or what Besins says/thinks it is - then there is possible fraud being committed or at least deliberate obfuscation!

Those who finish their pump pack should be able to remove ( break?) the plastic pump pack bottle and get down to the inner pouch which surely will have a batch number or identifier on it - which would help trace its provenance? Gosh maybe we're going to uncover a scandal or at least some shady dealings?!

In the meantime I think we do have to accept the only explanation we have been given - that the products are exactly the same - at least for most of the time and that variation in consistency may be due to temperature. According to what I've read about absorption of the gel anyway – it is takes longer to dry then it will actually be MORE effective, not less because the amount absorbed is related to the drying time. This is why it musn't be spread over as thin an area as possible so that it remains on the skin for long enough for maximum estradiol to be absorbed.  Or maybe if it's runnier it is spread more thinly to dry it quicker? You could always experiment on yourselves.....re temperature. area spread etc.....

Aaagh! Hope everyone's well today

Hurdity x

[Jenna]

Perhaps anyone believing they haven't been given the genuine product or anyone who has a bad reaction should report this to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency under the yellow card scheme:

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

[Conolly]

Hello Jenna,


Brilliant! Thank you.


Conolly X

[Hurdity]

I've had another reply from Besins. They haven't changed their manufacturing etc at all in recent years so the formula for Oestrodose and Oestrogel is still exactly the same as it has been for many years (re the products manufactured in Belgium and supplied to UK).

As I've written several times asking them all these questions they now say they have passed my comments onto the Product Complaints Dept (eeek!) so if they get back to me I might be asking for all of your comments and dates etc. I didn't ask them to do this nor make a complaint - I just commented! Do keep any boxes/packs of Oestrodose that you think are different and maybe not genuine Oestrodose, or have given you side effects which have resolved when you have started Oestrodose (as they might need to be sent to them or else the batch numbers etc maybe?). This is all a bit odd since I have never used the stuff but was speaking on all of your behalf!

Hurdity x

[allie007]

Ive been using Oestrogel since March, gradually increasing from 1 to 3 pumps and feeling much better on it. For the last 3 weeks I've been using Oestrodose and for the last 2 weeks i've been feeling increasingly nauseous in the mornings and evenings, tiredness and lack of energy returning and now headaches.

[Tempest]

I said I wasn't going to comment on the forums again, but I feel VERY strongly about this as I was probably one of the first to notice it nearly 2 years ago. They are NOT the same in delivery - and I developed urticaria on the Oestrodose.

As the packaging/pump is different, if it's not the ingredients then I have a theory that the product in Oestrodose is perhaps seperating and it may be a packaging issue. Because SOMETHING is definitely amiss!

xxxx

[Dotty]

Welcome back, Tempest 

I think we have to believe the ladies who say there is a difference .  My consultant told me to always get Oestrogel x

[Annie0710]

I said I wasn't going to comment on the forums again, but I feel VERY strongly about this as I was probably one of the first to notice it nearly 2 years ago. They are NOT the same in delivery - and I developed urticaria on the Oestrodose.

As the packaging/pump is different, if it's not the ingredients then I have a theory that the product in Oestrodose is perhaps seperating and it may be a packaging issue. Because SOMETHING is definitely amiss!

xxxx

Hi Tempest
Yes I had the same albeit a small itchy patch on my back (I applied to thighs).   I didn't think too much about it but when I next collected my script and it was oestrogel the itchy back stopped and I've never had oestrodose or the itchy back since x