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Author Topic: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT  (Read 6161 times)

runningfool

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Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« on: March 15, 2018, 11:12:15 AM »

Hi all. Does anyone have any experience/advice on taking Red Clover & Sage?

I am looking for alternatives as I have had to stop my HRT and of course everything has come back with a vengeance symptom-wise. I am nearly 53 and no period for three years, though was bleeding slightly on Elleste Duet - just a fibroid it turns out thankfully. Night sweats, flushes, joint pain, emotional chaos - you name it!

The reason I ask is that I also take 20mg Amitriptyline each evening - and wondered if anyone could help re: compatibility.

Someone also recommended Wellsprings Serenity Cream too - so all experiences welcome if you have tried that too!

Thanks all  :)
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Dotty

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »

Why did you stop hrt?
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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 12:23:59 PM »

Doctor told me to as I was bleeding
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Dotty

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 01:15:42 PM »

You should try a different type or dose of hrt.

Which hrt were you taking? Elleste Duet or Elleste Duet Conti?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:17:19 PM by Dotty »
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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 02:33:51 PM »

Elleste Duet - but the doc has said not to take HRT - so that's why I am asking about alternatives - do you know perhaps? Ta
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Dotty

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 03:00:37 PM »

Sage didn't work for me. If I was you then I would post on All things Menopause and ask there if you can take hrt. Bleeding is normal on Elleste Duet and I think your doctor may be wrong in saying that you can't take hrt.
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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 03:12:00 PM »

Hmm - interesting...

I have a gynae appt at the beginning of May and have been told by another doc that I should stay off at least until then (fibroid) but the symptoms are getting really bad - especially when I am at work (though pretty awful at night too). Was just trying to investigate an alternative you see.
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Dotty

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 03:14:20 PM »

I don't think that fibroids are a reason to stop hrt, but I'm not an expert . If you post on the other page more people will see it. Don't think many people look at the alternatives page.
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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 03:27:39 PM »

Thanks very much!
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CLKD

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 06:22:34 PM »

If you have symptoms that are over-whelming, maybe consider Quality of Life?   Your GP should have sent you for a scan for un-explained bleeding, or explained that this may well be a side effect of that particular HRT.  What did it say on the leaf-let in the packet?

Browse round.  There are many ways of delivering HRT.  Do be aware of vaginal atrophy which may well require a different type of HRT into the vagina, not much else works!   We have several threads here.

This sounds on paper that you have another ill-informed GP!
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dangermouse

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 08:40:49 PM »

Fibroids are caused by high oestrogen so I'm not surprised that your GP doesn't want you to add in more of it.

Progesterone therapy can shrink fibroids (your gyno can advise you further) or you could have them removed. I'm terms of herbs, give them a try, as many women are helped with sage and black cohosh but do some research to check you don't choose oestrogen stimulating herbs.
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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 11:13:23 PM »

Thanks very much!
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Hurdity

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2018, 10:39:32 AM »

Hi runningfool

Your doctor is quite wrong to insist you stop HRT due to fibroids - depending on your precsie situation - they are  NOT  a contra-indication to HRT and you should not have been made to stop as Dotty said! Yes oestrogen can make them grwo but there are ways round this if you need h and would like to continue with HRT.

Here is the info from this website:

Fibroids   
    Fibroids are benign smooth muscle tumours of the uterine (womb) wall and are dependant on estrogen. They tend to shrink after the menopause but shrinkage may not occur, or they may even increase in size with HRT use. Increase is thought to occur in 25% of HRT users and mainly occurs in the first six months of therapy. There is some evidence that transdermal (patch or gel) but not tablet HRT nor tibolone may promote fibroid growth. [ref 24] Fibroid size can be monitored by regular examinations and sometimes by ultrasound scans. There is some evidence that the use of the progestogen releasing intra-uterine system, Mirena may cause fibroids to reduce in size. Mirena is often used in the perimenopause by women who have heavy periods and/or require contraception and can provide the progestogen part of their HRT.


https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php#GlossF

Progesterone cream won't do anything to help your symptoms - it's far too weak and not strong enough to shrink the fibroids. As you can see from the info a Mirena coil may help to shrink the fibroids and then you can also add oestrogen (patch, pill or gel) to deal with your hot flushes and sweats.

I'm also a bit confused by your saying you bled on Elleste Duet - this is supposed to happen as Dotty said - ie if you take two different types of tablet ie half the month one colour (oestrogen only) and half the month another colour (oestrogen and the progestogen), then you should have a monthly withdrawal bleed. It is only the conti type that is a no-bleed HRT - but even in this case some bleeding or spotting is normal for up to 6 months. If you had not had a period for 3 years then it is usually the conti type would be given anyway...

I wouild certainly look into this before the herbal remedies which really don't work like oestrogen does - mainly placebo effect or perhaps some of them eg Black Cohosh or red Clover have a mild oestrogenic effect.

Hurdity x


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runningfool

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2018, 03:12:40 PM »

Thanks very much for this. Yes, I think the doc had a knee jerk reaction to my bleeding - I actually complained about his attitude anyway, as he basically made me feel it was my fault for continuing to take HRT when I was bleeding - and said I might have womb cancer. Made me feel joyful as you can imagine...

Will avoid the herbal route then - thanks - but I had an awful time when I used Mirena for birth control. Hurt like hell and had to have it removed.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: Red Clover & Sage as taken off HRT
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2018, 04:04:45 PM »

running fool - it's terrible when GPs have an attitude problem.  Do consider having a Mirena as this would give you the non bleed HRT option and you can use any amount of oestrogen as gel or patch alongside. Discuss this with the gynaecologist when you see them as it can be a no hassle alternative to HRT as pills - a Mirena will also shrink fibroids and polyps!!
DG x
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