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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 75 out now. (Spring issue, March 2024)

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Author Topic: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients  (Read 11548 times)

Eliza H

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future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« on: January 31, 2018, 08:14:14 AM »

I am one of three sisters, all now in our sixties. My two sisters went down the HRT route and are now struggling to stop using them. One recently did the cutting down/ weaning off route over a long period, but without success as symptoms came back so severely that she had to give up.
I managed with herbal remedies, taking soya products from my mid forties, and supplementing them with different extras like sage, red clover etc as I went along. As soon as one extra seemed to be losing its effect I swapped. All I get now is too warm at night/ poor sleeping, but at least I'm not now facing a struggle to wean myself off a drug that I no longer want to take. As far as I can see HRT is offered as a quick fix without all the future problems it brings being properly spelled out to people. Who wants to deal with all the menopause symptoms late in life?
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Mary G

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2018, 08:09:42 PM »

Eliza H, I am going to take HRT for life, it is a decision I made a long time ago.  There is no longer a time limit for using HRT as there was years ago because it moved on and the newer bio identical brands like transdermal Oestrogel are much safer than the older versions used 20 odd years ago.  All HRT risk is in the progesterone component and again, things have moved on a many of us on here use localised vaginal micronised progesterone which has minimal risks and doesn't damage your breasts.  So there is no longer any need to look upon HRT as a short term solution with a view to weaning yourself off after a few years. 

The NICE guidelines changed a couple of years ago but the new information is taking a long time to filter through the system.  The good news is that the deeply flawed HRT studies carried years ago have been discredited and more or less consigned to the garbage bin of history.  The outdated oral HRT forms used in those studies were heavily laden with synthetic progesterone and women don't use that type of HRT now.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 08:25:48 PM by Mary G »
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Shadyglade

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2018, 09:52:58 PM »

I think what Eliza is saying is that she is now mostly sympton free so would not need HRT. Where as her sisters have bad effects when they try to stop. Sounds like a dependance problem and I can see her point.  I also used alterative treatments and 5 years post meno am symptoms free (though sometimes hot at night). No matter how good HRT might be I would not like to be trapped into taking it for life. That, for me, would have been to high a price to pay.
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Hurdity

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 05:33:57 PM »

It is really time we permanently laid to rest some of the more common misconceptions about HRT.

Firstly you do not go through menopause twice (if you go through menopause during the normal age range) so taking HRT does not delay the menopause.

Menopause occurs when the ovaries pack up and is preceded by the peri-menopausal transition characterised by wildly fluctuating hormones levels, mood swings often with irregular and erratic periods over several years. Some women suffer debilitating hot flushes and sweats as well as other symptoms and HRT is prescribed to enable them to achieve a better quality of life and ease them through this time until hormones stabilise. In many women this is essential to function and not simply a quick fix in the same way that taking an aspirin for a headache might be if you don't know the underlying cause of the headache. There is no virtue in powering on through and suffering.

So even if you only take it for a few years and you stop when you estimate you will be post-menopause, your hormones will have stopped surging and your ovaries will have packed up so you do not have years of symptoms due to this.  Looking at the most obvious symptoms of flushes and sweats that drives most women to seek help - research is increasingly showing  that some women (those who have not taken HRT) continue to experience hot flushes for many years after menopause – which can be up to 14 years. You cannot predict in advance if you are going to fall into this category, and nor can you predict the course and severity of your menopausal  symptoms from that of your relatives eg sisters, although there is a correlation between age of menopause and age of your mother's menopause. 

Still keeping to the flush issue – those who  have gone through menopause and whose flushes have subsided – have been lucky – but you don't know in advance whether, if you start HRT you will be one who would have stopped. In terms of coming off HRT – some research suggests that tapering off HRT slowly might prevent the worst of the rebound effect – ie sudden recurrence of flushes – but not everyone will experience a resumption, and of those women some may experience them for perhaps 9 months or so and then they stop. This is much less time than the years of flushes they might have had, if they had not taken HRT.

Added to that you cannot take away the years of benefit you will have had while on HRT - the quality of life and your health, and the additional years of bone protection to give an obvious example, as well as protecting the cardiovascular system.  Post menopause and associated oestrogen deficiency is for ever – so it is not just about symptoms like flushes and sweats. The long term benefits of taking replacement oestrogen are becoming increasingly recognised as we live longer than ever before, perhaps up to 40 years post-menopause.

The current view is that up to the age of 60 the benefits of HRT exceed the risks, from 60-70 there are approximately the same and only beyond the age of 70 do possible risks potentially begin to outweigh the benefits. I say potentially because there has not been sufficient research into long term HRT use in over 70 and particularly of the bio-identical type ie estradiol and progesterone – which are the same as our own body's hormones.

Other factors put women more at risk from things like breast cancer or stroke than taking HRT – for example being overweight, smoking, drinking alcohol over recommended limits,  taking insufficient exercise, eating a poor diet – all put us at risk of various cancers. If you aim to keep yourself as healthy as you can post 50 especially, but continue to take HRT – you are minimising these other risks – and of course improving your overall health and quality of life.

Phyto-oestrogen supplements and in the diet may have a weak effect and help some women's symptoms  a little at some point during menopause (perhaps very early and post-menopause?) although evidence is not conclusive – but they are no substitute for replacing oestrogen.

Some women who have had breast cancer  are unfortunately unable to take HRT and there are other prescribed medications available to relieve symptoms.

“As far as I can see HRT is offered as a quick fix without all the future problems it brings being properly spelled out to people.”

Many of us would like to see the future problems and possible health consequences of NOT taking HRT– (cardiovascular problems, osteoporosis, vaginal atrophy and more) properly spelled out to women.

Those who continue to take it into their 60's (like me) know what they are doing and choose to continue to maintain oestrogen levels as long as they can, health permitting - and especially to try to stave off osteoporosis which besets many elderly women. Personally I may decide at some point to stop - but not yet  - and I certainly don't feel trapped! :)

Well I got that out of my system!!  ::)

Hurdity x





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Shadyglade

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 05:52:53 PM »

Wow. Okay.
Glad you are happy Hurdity.
Each to their own.  :)
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Joaniepat

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 06:36:56 PM »

Bravo Hurdity, well said! Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent and comprehensive post, these things need saying.
 :thankyou:
JP x
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Annie0710

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 07:14:51 PM »

At work I sit next to a 33 year old woman who said one day “ I don't  know why you faff about with hrt, you're only delaying the inevitable”

I asked how on earth can you DELAY the menopause? When Your eggs are gone, they're gone! And if I could delay it I'll tell you now that I'd delay it permanently !  She soon shut up

Some suffer, some don't, some can't take hrt.  I'm one that intends to stay on it for life, health permitting !
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Shadyglade

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 09:03:13 AM »

Well I hope this thread hasn't frightened Eliza off.  This forum is about sharing experience and that is all she did.  I know many women are helped by HRT.  Some  try it and don't get on with it and some like Eliza and I chose a different route.  That does not me we suffer less !! (who has the right to judge others experience). There is nothing wrong with different opinions but there should be healthy debate without it getting adversarial. 

Well I'm off to Suffolk now.  I hope you are still with us Eliza.   ;)
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Dorothy

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2018, 09:59:59 AM »

It's wonderful that some people are able to get through this time without HRT but that doesn't mean that it is a 'quick fix' for those who can't, or that they are necessarily going to end up with worse problems in future.  You only have to read the many threads on this forum to see that some women have fought for years to be given HRT, so it's hardly a 'quick fix' for them!  Also, most women on this forum are well-educated about the benefits and risks of HRT so have made their decision with that in mind.

OP, It would be really helpful if you could discuss which alternatives you tried and which you found most helpful.  After all, this is a section for discussing alternatives, not for knocking HRT!  Many women either can't take HRT or don't wish to, and it's helpful to know other people's experience of various alternatives.

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CLKD

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 01:02:07 PM »

As with many health conditions, one size doesn't fit all. 

I won't go over what has been said about menopause which 'translates' as the end of menstruation.  My periods waxed and waned for several years: I would miss months and months then have periods regularly for months and months: then they stopped.  I didn't stop carrying protection for 5 years though  :D.

It's how ladies are treated by their GPs/Practice Nurse which may make the situation hard work.  Some ladies find that keeping a mood/food/symptom diary useful to chart daily feelings.  Gentle exercise can help.  Some require HRT, some need anti-depressant and/or anti-anxiety medication, some require both.

There R no hard and fast rules but it can be Trial and Error until we find something that works to relieve any hormonal symptoms.  That was the same 4 me trying to find an anti-depressant medication in the 1980s, it took MONTHS! 

 :welcomemm:  Eliza H - browse round.  Make notes ;-)
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RubyLove

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 04:10:39 PM »

So, from what I am understanding now from this thread and from other threads, future "problems not made clear" don't necessarily exist. Thank you Hurdity for unravelling the myths and sharing your experience to date and future HRT plans. I am 45 in peri for probably 3 yrs, but only now understanding it, trying phytoestrogens (4 mths) and testosterone (2wks). I am feeling better now, but making plans for the future (i.e., I will take HRT when I feel I need it). These discussions/debates are very helpful. Thank you all for your input.
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CLKD

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 05:40:10 PM »

Menopause is the cessation of monthly periods.  End of.

What we don't get told are that some symptoms can cause problems.  But HRT doesn't delay problems - it is after all, 'replacement'.  Some ladies require it, others don't.

Testosterone of course is the male hormone of which some may be low enough to have symptoms, my GP won't prescribe it.  Fortunately my libedo came back up on it's own >phew<!

Keeping a diary can be really useful 'cos it's easy to forget how we are on our better days  ::)
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Emerald2017

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 06:29:46 AM »

Hi! I think that hrt is a necessity for premature and early menopause. I'm 42 and on hrt.
I think that estrogen is vital for my health and the quality of life. I don't want to suffer and I cannot see meno as a natural event at a such a young age.
 I agree with you Mary G, I hope I can take hrt the longer I can. I take synthetic progesterone but I'll change it soon.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 09:07:59 AM »

Using hrt does not mean you will have a bad time when you stop using it. Hurdity, as always, has explained things very well. HRT is not for everyone but to assume HRT is not beneficial for many women is a narrow viewpoint.

ELIZA - It's not that we want to frighten you off - you are very entitled to your opinion.  I can understand why you believe that HRT has perhaps made things worse for your sisters now - I do wonder why they have stopped using hrt? Have they been pressured by their GP? Unless there are health reasons or they simply decided they wished to stop, then they could continue if they feel good on HRT, provided they understand that there are very, very small risks.
We all experience the menopause differently - my 2 sisters had few problems. You may have been lucky and not had meno symptoms as severely as your sisters and the withdrawal symptoms, may well have been what they would have had during the years they were using hrt - they would not have had quality of life through that time. The average time for most meno symptoms to last is between 2-8 years but many suffer for 20 or more years!!! BUT the negative effects of oestrogen deficiency goes on giving problems for the rest of our lives. Life is short and if we need to work, then we do everything we can to keep working.
How much have you spent on alternative remedies over the years and how much have you had to adjust your life to cope with flushes, lack of sleep and generally feeling unwell?
As Hurdity has pointed out, HRT will offer protection for the bones and heart in the long term - so your sisters have a reduced risk of developing bone and heart problems. HRT will also help to prevent urogenital atrophy.  I also believe there is research that shows HRT gives a reduced risk of bowel cancer!  HRT us not just symptom relief.

If you are getting any urinary issues or vaginal dryness, I would strongly suggest you ask your GP for some local
Oestrogen - this can be used for life ( virtually no risks or side effects as it is not absorbed systemically)  and will help to keep your whole urogenital area healthy for the long term.
I'm afraid many of us are fed up with people highlighting the negatives of HRT and not emphasising the positives.
 DG x
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 10:23:41 AM by Dancinggirl »
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Shadyglade

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Re: future problems from HRT that are not made clear to patients
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 11:28:02 AM »

This is an interesting topic.  I notice there are lots of threads and posts regarding starting HRT and problems etc., but not much input about coming off. I know I am not HRT literate but I would have thought coming off would have some sort of effect on symptoms, perhaps negative and positive, so ladies with personal experience could give valuable information. 

The Choice not to take HRT was clear cut for me but for others such information would help in their choice.  Especially as GPs seem to know so little the personal experience of others is even more important.  That is what makes this forum so important.  It would be good if ladies such as Eliza's sisters could come on the forum and discuss their experience. 

The more information the better.
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