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[Pennyfarthing]

This has been much in the news today and I don't know why some people defend people who clearly come to the UK to get FREE NHS treatment.

In my opinion it's high time this was sorted out because we can't go to other countries and get free treatment for major operations. 

I heard a retired surgeon on the radio today and he says health Tourists costs us £2billion a year.  That would go a long way to helping people in the UK get essential drugs for life threatening illnesses which are not available to them. It would go a long way to providing some decent LA run care homes for our old people, as I know from personal experiences that there is a huge lack of these.

i know several people who have taken ill in places like Canada, Australia and Spain and have had to prove they have insurance and means of paying before they have been treated.

Even with an EHIC card in Europe I know many people who have had to pay. 

[Pennyfarthing]

The EHIC card only covers emergency treatment in the EU.  Never go without adequate insurance.

I agree with what you are saying generally but there are lot of ninny's who go abroad from here and then expect others to fund raise for their treatment or Medivac.  Both ways it's just a question of doing the right thing and having the right processes in place.

Yes I realise about the EHIC card Hope.   I don't think anybody from any country should be allowed to travel without insurance.

[CLKD]

People come in from abroad on the proviso that the health treatment is paid for but they hi-tail it back to ........ the Middle East in particular 

[Pennyfarthing]

There was a programme on TV last year which featured 3 health Tourists. One was a man from Israel supposedly visiting his daughter and then needed major surgery for a heart condition and she promised his bills would be paid. There was a woman from Portugal  who required urgent medical treatment and there was the African woman who had a multiple birth and was here for months. Not one of them paid anything and they all disappeared back to their own countries.  Just those 3 ran in To hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Personally I would be so grateful to receive free life saving surgery that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I owed that money.

I had a cousin who lived in America and she used to come back here and get free health and dental treatment and was quite honest and told us she just couldn't afford it in the States.  I told her I didn't think it was fair coming here and getting all that free when she's not paying anything into the country but she just shrugged.

[Annie0710]

I saw that documentary Pennyfarthing.  I don't like what is happening either .  The liaison officer with the nhs was telling the patients they don't have to pay but he's obligated to give an invoice !

I think the law should change.  There should be a paid insurance policy checked along with the passport on entering the Uk

[CLKD]

We would have to pay abroad.  It's one of the reasons why the NHS is in the state it has found itself.

[Pennyfarthing]

We would have to pay abroad.  It's one of the reasons why the NHS is in the state it has found itself.

Quite right. When we were in Majorca a woman in our hotel had to pay €80 just to have her ears syringed even though she had her EHIC card.  My friends Mum went to Canada a few years ago and they wouldn't treat her until her daughter in UK had  provided evidence that she had full medical insurance. She had to have her gall bladder removed after just a few days in Canada.

Why are we always such a soft touch here?

[CLKD]

Paying lip service?

[CLKD]

Further on from a recent thread, I read in the Press today about a man who had worked abroad for 30+ years but 'had to return to the UK' due to chronic pain which meant he lost his job.  So he paid into the NHS then?  Is there a way of finding out?  I suspect that many people go abroad for part or whole years then return to the UK for NHS treatment as they age 

[Shadyglade]

Don't see a problem with that at all. Especially if he was working in an EU country as what he would have paid into their healthcare system would count towards his national insurance contributions on return. And visa versa of course.

Do you think people should not move abroad? Do you think that people who have paid taxes all their lives should not enjoy warmer climes for part of the year?

I don't approve of people deliberately defrauding the NHS but there are lots of other circumstances where they may be intitled to free treatment. Emergency treatment is free whatever.

www.docsnotcops.co.uk
This is a very interesting site with an alternative view.

[JaneinPen]

My sister in law works as a secretary to consultants in an nhs hospital and before anyone gets treated they are checked to see whether they are eligible for treatment. By checking everyone they do not get hassled and as she rightly pointed out there are a lot of people eligible that have very foreign sounding surnames and it is not easy to know.

I lived in various countries abroad for 25 years whilst my husband worked and the whole time we lived away we paid in to the nhs so that on retiring we would be eligible for treatment and so it can be done but people just choose not to do it.

In another thread last week I also mentioned that before being treated anywhere we lived we had to prove we could pay for treatment. Unfortunately with not asking for money up front the nhs will always be on the back foot

[Shadyglade]

Here is a couple of items from the docs not cops website that might be of interest.


But isn't ‘health tourism' a drain on the NHS?

Certain politicians would have us believe that ‘health tourism' (i.e. people coming to the UK just to use the NHS) is a big and expensive problem. The Daily Mail, has proclaimed that this so-called phenomenon costs us £200 billion. This is simply not true, and no reliable evidence has been provided. The NHS itself admits that the number of ‘health tourists' is “small” and hard to estimate. Even Health Minister Jeremy Hunt estimates the cost at £12 million a year – this is money that the NHS is unable to get back from visitors from abroad who have accessed chargeable treatment. That figure even includes money that the NHS couldn't get back because patients later died. £12m is about 0.06% of savings that the NHS is being forced to make.

Put simply, health tourism is a tiny portion of the NHS budget – and implementing this bill will not come cheap.


But our NHS was never intended to treat foreigners!

Actually, it was!  In 1952, Aneurin Bevan — the ‘father of the NHS' — wrote this in an essay called In Place of Fear: ‘One of the consequences of the universality of the British Health Service is the free treatment of foreign visitors. This has given rise to a great deal of criticism, most of it ill-informed and some of it deliberately mischievous. Why should people come to Britain and enjoy the benefits of the free Health Service when they do not subscribe to the national revenues? So the argument goes. No doubt a little of this objection is still based on the confusion about contributions to which I have referred. The fact is, of course, that visitors to Britain subscribe to the national revenues as soon as they start consuming certain commodities, drink and tobacco for example, and entertainment.”

Bevan understood that these arguments were ugly, unfair and politically motivated: “The whole agitation has a nasty taste. Instead of rejoicing at the opportunity to practice a civilized principle, Conservatives have tried to exploit the most disreputable emotions in this among many other attempts to discredit socialized medicine.”

[CLKD]

Tnx for that, so interesting.  Social History slightly B4 'my time', Mum often talks about not getting the Dr because Granny had to pay.  Granny had been the Doctor's housekeeper so he would attend anyway. 

I have no problem with people living abroad as long as they pay into the 'system'.  But this particular article didn't site any mention that he had been working for a UK Company.  Indonesia with all the best will in the World .......  then return home here to reap NHS care?  It happens.  I've known of several people who have done similar.   

Of course the media rarely tell the whole story which is where the Editors should step in and put a foot-note!

[Shadyglade]

Still don't have a problem with him 'reaping the benefit'. If he needs treatment, he needs it.

As for the media truth comes in many forms. Usually people pick their own version.

I am not mentioning the Daily Mail. 

[CLKD]

   I won't if you don't    cherry picking sells news.  However, 'reaping the benefit' when he may not have paid into a Scheme? which wasn't mentioned ........