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[GypsyRoseLee]

Last month I had a normal withdrawal bleed about 3 days after finishing my first pack of Femoston 1/10. It was very light, as my withdrawal bleeds always are.

I then swapped to Femoston 2/10. Was fine during the oestrogen tabs (though it took a few days for my mood to lift after my bleed). But only 5 days into the combi tabs, not only had my mood plunged, but I also started getting a bleed, which was very light and just lasted 2 days. A couple of days later I felt so dreadful, mood was dire, that I stopped the combi tabs and have just been on oestrogen since 50mg patch).

My question is, can I count the very light bleed, 5 days into the combi tabs as a proper bleed? This bleed was so brief, and finished 2.5 weeks ago. Or do I disregard it, and only count the 'proper' bleed I had last month, which was 37/days ago?

I'm asking because I really feel that if I could just have a period now, it would 're set' my system, if that makes sense? Sort of kick start it. I think that by stopping the 2/10 combi tabs after only 6 days and reverting to just a patch as somehow 'crashed' my own system, and I am now just flat lining.

It feels like my endocrine system has totally shut down. My boobs and tummy are not remotely bloated (they usually are).

At Xmas I had a natural period, despite not using any Utro, and still wearing a 50mg patch. It took about 32/33 days for this period to arrive, after my previous withdrawal bleed. But at least it arrived.

But, this time I just don't feel I'm going to get a period. I don't think I have enough of my own hormones to make it happen?

If I can count that mini bleed I had 2.5 weeks ago, then I can't expect my own periods for at least another week (damn). But if I should ignore that one (could have just been a mini breakthrough bleed) then it has been nearly 40 days since my last withdrawal bleed. Which will be a good week longer than I have ever gone between bleeds before, which means I have gone further into peri menopause doesn't it.

I just really wish I could have a period, as at least that would jump start my own oestrogen to rise again, and jump start me out if this horrible, horrible doldrum.

I do still have some Utro, and was tempted to take it to cause a bleed, but I have learned my lesson about experimenting Willy nilly! But at least it would help me sleep, as I have dreadful insomnia at the moment.

[Hurdity]

Unfortunately it's impossible to say GypsyRoseLee - since any and every type of bleeding occurs in peri-menopause and on and off HRT - especially if you are changing around too. If your cycle is varying and overrides the HRT then you can get bleeding at the "wrong" time. The best thing to do is just note it - if you keep a diary and record two possible cycle lengths this time. As you know the Utrogestan itself won't just cause a bleed - you need to take a course of it, it needs to be sufficient to change the lining to secretory and then you need to stop it - and then you should get a period!

Hope you feel some relief soon

Hurdity x

[Lizab]

I'm not sure if this helps, but since we seem to have similar issues I'll put it out there. Like you, I was still cycling into last year. In 2013 I had excessive bleeding that worked itself out. Then in 2014 I had excessive bleeding again and forever spotting, followed by a 3 month span of nothing. At this point I still felt mentally ok, but was dragged down with anemia. Then my periods ran normal for about 6 months, followed by a two week late period, then nothing for 4 or 5 months. During this span of nothing was when my anxious, low energy weirdness began. I really felt that if I could only have a period, it would release me and I would feel better. When I did have a period naturally in November, I did have a week or so of feeling normal and good energy. It didn't last and I started hrt at Christmas. Since then I've had two bleeds brought on by progesterone, and it hasn't done a damn thing to set my system right. The hrt induced bleeds don't bring about the same feel good tension release for me. I think our natural hormones allow it to fake a cycle for us, but in the background the natural hormones are still a bit crazy.

So, where does that leave us? I feel like I'm exercising huge amounts of patience in hoping that given a proper 3 or more months to settle in, my body will settle. Even for using BCP as contraceptive, they say use a backup method for 3 months, so our bodies need time to pull into balance. I am still logging my moods, but I try not to dwell on what hormone is doing what. What the added e or added p does to me today may not be the same as how it affected me two weeks ago because with each change my body is making little adjustments trying to find equilibrium. Now, I'm still all messed up. I don't know if more e or continual p should be my next step, I suspect I need both. But I try to put it at the back of my mind as there's really nothing I can do about it until my trial of my current regimen is up. Now, have you tried SSRIs for your moods? I've personally always been against them, having taken one dose years ago and it was the exact opposite of what I needed at the time. But now I'm considering giving it a go, if nothing more than to keep me sane while trying to regulate my stupid ovaries.

Sorry for rambling, I just see so many similarities in our issues. I hope it helps and that we both get fixed right soon!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks Hurdity. I know it's next to impossible to know what is a random breakthrough bleed or not? It would just be useful to know if I could say it's been nearly 40 days since my last bleed, or just 18 days?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi LizB

I know exactly what you mean about feeling like you need to be 're set' as I feel exactly the same. I feel like I am in a very vile limbo and I'm desperate to be snapped out of it.

Even though my natural periods became very light prior to me starting HRT, they were always pretty regular. I've never gone more than 31 days without a bleed (until now, if I disregard that mini, possible break through bleed).

I am.absolutely prepared to try ADs too in order to feel better. I am prepared to take anything to feel better. I just absolutely dread the initial side effects as I reacted so horribly when I tried Sertraline and Mirtrazapine last autumn.

A couple of years ago I went onto Amitriptyline when I first started with this awful anxiety/mood swings. I was on it for 7 months. It's the same AD I was on when I had PND years ago. It has a calming effect which is what I so needed, rather than the wired feeling which newer SSRIs give me. Plus, I slept like a log and none of the meerkat waking.

I gained weight but only about 10lbs, which was infinitely preferable to how awful I'd been feeling.

I came off it after 7 months because I felt like I didn't need it anymore (ha ha ha) and was actually fine for about 3 months before the anxiety/dreads came back. I suffered them for a couple of months, but my mood was so up and down that I was considering going back on Amitriptyline. Then I had another 6 weeks of being symptoms free.

But then my symptoms returned, and I went onto HRT.

My biggest regret is that I stopped taking Amitriptyline when I did. And that I didn't go and see a proper speciliast (like Annie Evans) back then.

When I see her this week I will see what she says about ADs, whether she thinks I could benefit from them too. It's just infuriating because I am not this down and desperate all the time.

But I am tempted to go back on Amitriptyline, if she advises an AD, for say 6 months, while her HRT regime gets properly settled into my system. But then I won't know if it's her regime which is working, or the Amitriptyline?

I hate this. I really do.

[Lizab]

But who cares which one is working? In your case I would definitely do the ADs since you already know which works for you and how you feel on it. I mean, you could try only the hrt, and be prepared to potentially feel bad for several more months while trying to find the magic mix. I must be missing something between your decision to stop ADs and start hrt. You must have had some symptoms to lead you to hrt besides moods, or you would've gone directly back to ADs. Anyway, I'm afraid of the ADs because the one Lexapro I took a most 10 years ago (in hindsight, I was in a hormonal upheaval from Mirena then). If I had prior experience with something that worked for me, I'd go for it. If I recall correctly you're young too, so maybe the health benefits is what's pushing you to hrt?

[GypsyRoseLee]

I think I stopped taking Amitriptyline because I felt I didn't really need it anymore, and because I was due for my follow up appointment at the Meno Clinic (had waited months for it. At the first appointment the doctor had told me I had early ovarian failure and I would loads better taking oestrogen).

And I wanted to be able to tell whether the HRT they tried me on really helped, and it not be masked by the Amitriptyline. I didn't really have any other physical symptoms, aside from my periods now being much lighter and shorter.

But I reasoned that my body wasn't low in Amitriptyline, it was low in oestrogen. And the Meno doctor assured me I would feel great on an oestrogen patch....?

I am hoping that the regime from Dr Annie will work fairly quickly? But I will ask her about taking Amitriptyline too.


How did the lexapro affect you? If you're progesterone intolerant the Mirena will have done you no favours. I had one for 9 months, and hated every moment of it.

[Lizab]

The Lexapro gave me a tingly head, allover weird feeling, diarrhea, insomnia, basically like I had taken a bad drug. I sat up in my bed staring at the wall for hours telling myself that it would eventually wear off. I wanted to panic, but at the same time I was not inclined to react at all. I was almost panicking on the inside but comatose on the outside. It was awful, and I felt a little hungover from it for two days.

You're reasoning makes sense. I guess because I know we've both been dealing with it for so long, I think at this point I would take whatever I know works.

[Lizab]

Oh, and as for the Mirena. Initially it was the best thing to ever happen to me. It lightened my always heavy periods, and I felt calm and well on it. As time went on, I developed migraines, cysts on my ovaries, some strange hair growth (random long hairs) and morning sickness type nausea. I had it removed after about and a half years, anD all of my problems resolves, some instantly, some over several months. I don't know that I'm intolerant, or if it simply put me out of balance. I had trouble with several BCP in my 20s, so I think I may be slightly intolerant. But my body is certainly different now. I'm cautious of the progesterone but not convinced that it will kill me.