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Author Topic: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!  (Read 23782 times)

Hurdity

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Re: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2015, 08:20:10 PM »

Oh dear - honeybun - do you really have to resort to insulting posts all the time? It's getting rather tiresome and Grangravy - you couldn't resist giving another dig. If you read what I say in the thread below (above?) you will see it's not personal opinion at all - the gist of what I am saying is current thinking. Also - why would Mary G or I or TheDuchess start another thread? The discussion developed out of the thread title and is relevant not just to Mary G but anyone else contemplating such a regime.

What is the point of these comments? Neither of you have offered any useful advice on this thread so why are you trying to cause an argument? I certainly don't want an argument but I am being forced to respond because of the comments being made.

Please read the thread properly in its entirety and what has been said before making such comments as "a bunch of amateurs" which I know is meant to be insulting.

Of course we are all amateurs in the medical context,  but some members have biology degrees and even science doctorates - not that these are pre-requisites to being a very well informed amateur, nor having read an enormous amount around the subject, and many women are actually able to advise other women on here - not to replace medical opinion but to interpret it, or entreat women to return to their doctors when an incorrect prescription has been given - as happens regularly.

Without wanting to reproduce the entire thread - the crux of it is that Mary G said she had been prescribed Serenity progesterone cream to protect the endometrium from oestrogenic stimulation with a fairly high dose (3 pumps of gel). Very early on in the thread I quoted from Dr Currie on this site  that this was not medically advised and did so again later on from another source.  Endometrial protection with appropriate doses of a progestogen is the cornerstone of HRT, and Dr Currie would agree!

Mary G and I (and TheDuchess) have been having a friendly discussion about her treatment and by her own admission she was not following the advice of "the expert", a recognised private gynae Prof Studd (the consultant whom you said she should listen to honeybun) whose minimum progestogen prescription is 7 days per 28 days oestrogen - and this is for those who are progesterone intolerant, and is far less than is licensed.

We do not know the second gynae who Mary G has consulted - but I was not giving my own opinion - but echoing Dr Currie and Prof Studd's opinion and Dr C's words, which is the current medical practice.

If you are not following or not interested in the precise details of this discussion - fair enough - but please don't use it (or the fact of another member leaving however regrettable that is) as an excuse to heap insults on those who are spending time reading and interpreting current thinking and trying to help another member with the best of intentions.

Mary G - you know I wish you well!

Hurdity x
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honeybun

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Re: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2015, 08:31:11 PM »

I was not trying to be insulting but I stand by my view which is......apart from  Dr Currie none of us are qualified doctors and therefore should not try and dissuade a member from following the advice given to her by a consultant.

It would seem that some think they can say what they like but dislike anyone disagreeing.

It's now up to Mary whether she takes a doctor's advice or not.

Maybe Dr Currie would agree with you but she is qualified, and  :-\

I won't comment again.

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lindyloo

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Re: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2015, 09:29:12 PM »

I agree Honeybun xxx love lindyloo
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Mary G

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Re: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2015, 09:34:09 PM »

Once again, sorry if I am the cause of this.  All views and advice are welcome and we cannot expect to agree on everything all the time.  Lively debate is healthy and must always remain open!

PS: Sorry if this is a bit Fawlty Towers-esk, but there are actually three doctors involved!  I consulted a separate doctor who prescribed the progesterone cream and my regular gynaecologist (not Professor Studd), is aware of this.  Thought I had better clear that up.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 11:57:01 PM by Mary G »
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Dana

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Re: Serenity bio identical hormone cream!!
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2015, 12:22:23 AM »


Going back to the cream - is it the commercial S brand as in the title of this thread or is it actually a higher dose cream? I know in US and in Oz too there are private practitioners who produce higher dose creams but in this case they would still be likely to give side effects I would have thought - because they need to be strong enough to oppose the oestrogen. Even so I would be concerned about using this for any length of time because it really won't provide enough progesterone to protect your womb in the same way as Utrogestan.

I don't certainly don't want to add to any ill feeling on this thread, but I just thought I would weigh in on Hurdity's comments about the higher dose compounded creams in Australia, and other countries like Canada and USA. These tend to be call "bioidentical", so that is why I have often said I wish that term wasn't used on BB, which is an international site and not just a UK site, as it can cause a lot of confusion, because some women may think you are referring to compounded hormones. Bioidentical isn't a scientific term anyway, hence it's use as a marketing term in some countries.

Anyway, yes certainly these higher dosed progesterone creams are available from a small number of dubious doctors on prescription, and usually at a very high cost. They are quite controversial because not many main-stream doctors will prescribe them (for a lot of legitimate reasons), and they are certainly not recommended to be used to oppose estrogen. These are a couple of excerpts from respected menopause/medical sites. You will also clearly see that the term "bioidentical" is used for these products, and that is where the confusion comes in when regulated HRT is referred to as “bioidentical” on MM.

Incidentally I will readily admit to being an amateur, but even amateurs have an opinion.

http://www.menopause.org.au/for-women/information-sheets/34-bioidentical-hormones-for-menopausal-symptoms
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Progesterone is very rapidly degraded in the human gut, liver and circulation so it has been difficult using oral therapy to maintain a level of progesterone sufficient to inhibit hyperplasia or prevent cancer in the endometrium. Progesterone can be absorbed through the skin but the amount circulating after a measured amount of progesterone cream has been applied to the skin, is insufficient to have any effect on the endometrial cells. There is some evidence that progesterone can be absorbed through the vaginal epithelium and through the buccal mucous membrane, but at present there are no reliable studies available to confirm that the amount absorbed from this source has a protective effect on the endometrium.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219716/
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Women with intact uteri are prescribed estrogen with a progestogen to oppose estrogen-induced endometrial hyperplasia and cancer. Bioidentical hormone proponents sometimes recommend topical progesterone cream instead of oral progestin for this purpose. However, it is unclear whether topical progesterone can effectively mitigate estrogen-induced endometrial stimulation. Three studies have examined the ability of progesterone to oppose estrogenic stimulation. The longest study, which lasted for 48 weeks, found that transdermal cream containing 40 mg of progesterone could not effectively oppose estradiol-induced endometrial stimulation.42 A 12-week study of a cream containing up to 64 mg of progesterone found similar effects.43 The only study that found that progesterone cream (1.5% or 4%, dosed by body weight) effectively opposed estrogen lasted only 28 days, too short a time to assess estrogenic effects.



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