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[BrightLight]

I do support you whole heartedly Brightlight and there will be many members who do to.

If you feel you want thread deleted then you can PM Emma and ask and explain why you want it removed.

I think you may find that if you don't  removed it you will find other women will be posting to support you.

Thank you very much for the well rounded reply.  I am certain that a lot of my issue is adrenal fatigue and it really is my belief that this contributes to symptoms in menopause - so I need to address that as well and my GP will not address that unless I have a 'disease' develop. 

Natural to me doesn't alone mean herbs etc for me it is wholistic thinking an integrative approach.  So many women enter menopause in an exhausted state for one reason or another, I know I am and without addressing that, HRT will be helping but not necessarily healing the root problem.  That is why we are told to address our stress levels, look at our lives etc......this is all a factor in heart disease etc.  Saying all that, if low sex hormones do turn out to be my issue, I'll take the HRT as I would a thyroid hormone or anything else that I literally cannot make or be healthy without. If that turns out to be the solution to my problems I will be happy, but I suspect it isn't.

Long term balancing of our health and wellbeing is hard and if we have a hormonal imbalance pre or post menopause, for me, that is the issue to address.  The UK doesn't look at it this way, the states and Australia take an integrative approach to the endocrine system much more and it is possible to find regular doctors that will take into acount your adrenal and thryoid function as well as your sex hormones.

Why is it that we need HRT much more than we did?  I wonder whether it is because we are neglecting the stress and strain on the other systems and it's all gone way out of balance.  I really do know that for me that my body isn't just suffering from low sex hormones, so I need to address it all and that's quite a big thing to tackle without the support of my GP.

[BrightLight]

As you are not at the point of having to make a decision, and may well be feeling overwhelmed by the amount of info out there, might it help to make a pact with yourself that you will wait until you've seen the private GP - and then research any suggestions she makes?

Thank you and I like your suggestion - I am going to take a step back.  There are new crocus and snowdrops out there and I'm going to go look at those - although it's bitterly cold with a few flakes of snow.

[Winterose]

I think also most of the ladies on here actually have meno symptoms and want to help those symptoms so they can get on with life.

You are certainly thinking well ahead and until the flushes etc started i never gave menopause a single thought thinking I would be fine.

Am sure you are right to be investigating it all now as heart disease is the biggest killer of women in this country.

[peegeetip]

Why is it that we need HRT much more than we did?

Actually after all the false scares we use it less.

I think what we are seeing is a resurgence of ladies unwilling to write off their quality of life anymore.
Whilst wondering why someone hid the information and solutions from them.

As I said on the other post best wishes in the choices you make.

 

[lancashirelass]

You need an e.level of 300 to protect your.bones.  i am in early surgical meno and was.told by nock.panay the top hrt guy that it was riskier for.me not to use hrt until 51 than to.  It is.the.protection for heart health, bones, cognitive function which it helps with.  I met a.lady at.the daisy network conference who had started early meno at 28 and had.not taken hrt at just 45 she had.the.bones of a 70 year.old.  scary. 

[honorsmum]

Hi Brightlight. I found your post really interesting particularly what you said about adrenals. I'm 52 post menopause and reluctantly started hrt a few weeks ago mainly due to tiredness which impacted so negatively on my life. I eat  well I exercise and I'd spent the past year trying alternatives without much success. It's not my thyroid causing the tiredness but I wondered about adrenals - do you have any info on this as I would be keen to read up?
Silver lady you mentioned you have low dose estrogen; are you able to advise what you take and do you have progesterone too?
Thank you 😊
I have posted somewhere about a you tube recording of Dr Annie someone that I found interesting. I emailed her website to ask the kind of question that you seemed to be asking originally Brightlight - if a woman doesn't have meno symptoms snd so doesn't take HRT are we to assume she will experience all the health problems noted in her recording. I've not had a reply.
My sister is 58 and was full meno at 46. She chose not to take hrt. I have a friend who is 48 with very early meno - no symptoms just no periods. She has hrt purely for the health benefits and plans to stop at 50.
We all try to make the best choice but it can be difficult! x

Very interesting question, thank you!

5 years ago, I had a 3 or 4 month course of steroids for Crohn's, and ridiculously wasn't advised that I needed to take calcium supplements while on it.
An x ray a couple of years later showed degenerative wear and tear on my hip, so I was sent for a bone density scan, which showed no concerns.

Recently, I asked my GP about testing for thyroid antibodies but she refused, saying that even if I showed high antibodies, she would not treat because of the risk of osteoporosis from the thyroid meds.
This is the same GP who refuses to acknowledge my peri symptoms, so therefore isn't prepared to give me HRT to prevent osteo!

[BrightLight]

Hi Brightlight. I found your post really interesting particularly what you said about adrenals. I'm 52 post menopause and reluctantly started hrt a few weeks ago mainly due to tiredness which impacted so negatively on my life. I eat  well I exercise and I'd spent the past year trying alternatives without much success. It's not my thyroid causing the tiredness but I wondered about adrenals - do you have any info on this as I would be keen to read up?
Silver lady you mentioned you have low dose estrogen; are you able to advise what you take and do you have progesterone too?
Thank you 😊
I have posted somewhere about a you tube recording of Dr Annie someone that I found interesting. I emailed her website to ask the kind of question that you seemed to be asking originally Brightlight - if a woman doesn't have meno symptoms snd so doesn't take HRT are we to assume she will experience all the health problems noted in her recording. I've not had a reply.
My sister is 58 and was full meno at 46. She chose not to take hrt. I have a friend who is 48 with very early meno - no symptoms just no periods. She has hrt purely for the health benefits and plans to stop at 50.
We all try to make the best choice but it can be difficult! x

Hello
Adrenal stress isn't recognised in the medical world as such although when lifestyle, excercise and nutrition are talked about, these are the things that support the adrenals.  It's basically an over taxing of our stress response and I liken it to over use of a muscle, over time if we continue the response in our bodies/minds we can tire the system.  Many things can exhaust the adrenals - for me, it was overwork and life stressors like bereavement and work changes that have piled into my life over the years.  Although diet and relaxing have a huge impact as well and when we are stressed we tend to neglect this as well - we run on adrenalin.

One approach is food and you might find this link interesting as a start to discover if you are 'exhausted' in this way https://www.womentowomen.com/adrenal-health-2/eating-to-support-your-adrenal-glands-2/

I'd really like to hear the answer you asked Dr Annie about symptoms v future health concerns.  I am suspecting there isn't an answer.  I say that because how can we logically determine that? We are all so different and so many factors are involved.  I appreciate the detailed research and believe it, though I prefer to acknowledge that other factors also play a part.  All research is based on a specific area, we need to bear that in mind when reading it.  We may be looking deeply into one area when the area of concern that impacts more greatly on our health has been forgotten

So for instance, heart disease has been proven to correlate with emotional well being, blood pressure responds to emotional/brain activity. I have been reading that osteoparosis may start much younger than menopause for other reasons.  We all have to choose areas to address and just hope they all balance out somehow, we can't do it all. I sometimes get tangled up with medical stuff that 'promises' solutions to one issue and forget that really it's a broadbrush unless you choose to look at an individual.

If I take HRT, I think I will just take it and not expect too much as it were - it will either work or it won't and I won't know until the future, if at all.  But I do still have a dilemma with the absolute assumption it will protect me and that this is the only way.  It's hard actually. I know my 'real' health issues, or at least my weak points and at this point I am not too sure what impact or relevance the menopause has on those. If that makes sense...... for the last 2 weeks I have been 'scared' into the idea that early menopause means I have a future diagnosis that is certain - heart disease and osteo - I am choosing to hold fire on that assumption for the moment

[BrightLight]

The other thing about the adrenal glands is that at menopause they take over or are at least a primary source of where hormones get made - so I guess if they are not supported well with rest and food etc they will be under even more strain and hormone production suffers

[Hurdity]

Hi Brightlight

I've been busy over the weekend and just catching up - I made some points about hormones and the adrenals and the endocrine system on another thread but can't find it at the moment.

Basically there was an important discussion about how all our endocrine glands age - and CLKD and I and others probably put up some relevant links, but it won't hurt to put them up on this thread too as it's relevant. This is one on ageing changes on hormone production: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/004000.htm ie as we age everything works less well - and of course menopause is an extreme example when our ovaries pack up comparatively rather suddenly.

As you say, it is understood that stress has a huge impact on our bodies both physically and mentally to which anxiety contributes. This list of symptoms for a start indicates how our body is affected:
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/pages/understanding-panic.aspx and the sections on stress are quite good too:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/understanding-stress.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/reduce-stress.aspx

These do focus on the whole individual rather than on one specific gland or area - so that individuals can benefit even without a full understanding of their body.

In terms of eating - we need to have as healthy a diet as we possibly can to support our entire physiology - and if the diet is balanced and unrefined etc, our bodies will work as they are meant to (other health conditions and lifestyle permitting).

I'm sure I've said this recently on another thread - so apologies if I'm repeating myself!

I think you are wise in your approach to HRT ie if you decide to take it - not to expect too much of it. Too often it can be thought of as a magic cure when the first and most important things any woman needs to do at this time is to take control of all aspects of health and lifestyle, including weight, exercise, diet, alcohol etc as well as stress and hormones!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

I have posted somewhere about a you tube recording of Dr Annie someone that I found interesting. I emailed her website to ask the kind of question that you seemed to be asking originally Brightlight - if a woman doesn't have meno symptoms snd so doesn't take HRT are we to assume she will experience all the health problems noted in her recording. I've not had a reply.

Hi Julesshappy

I haven't seen the youtube so can't comment specifically on what the health problems are that she refers to and whether it is early menopause she is referring to. However no-one can say that we will categorically suffer from and particular health problems except that our bodies will gradually function less well as we age - but each will experience deterioration in their own way.

However you might be interested in this paper which Emma linked to for World Menopause Day - which was entitled "Prevention of Diseases After Menopause" which gives a summary of the research so far looking at general lifestyle as well as hormone therapy - and their impact on diseases and conditions which women suffer or are susceptible to after menopause.
http://www.imsociety.org/downloads/world_menopause_day_2014/white_paper/wmd_white_paper_english.pdf

The way all of this works is through studies that give likelihood and risk eg of a condition or illness, and where trials have shown that a particular treatment has reduced the incidence of whatever condition or disease. It is never all or nothing.

It is then up to the experts to decide whether a particular treatment is recommended. If say - (hypothetical example) only 5 % of women would develop severe osteoporosis if they didn't take HRT up until the age of menopause, then few would be persuaded. If the figure was 50 % then most would decide to take it. Do you see what I mean?

The thing is we don't want to do the experiment on ourselves ie "Let's see what happens if we don't take it" and then find out our health has deteriorated. Similarly "Let's see what happens if we do take it" and then develop something that could have been caused by the HRT. We use the statistics and trials to make a judgement - and we try to trust the specialists to help us in this choice - most of us on here of course are reading up about it so that we are as well informed as we can be.

Bit of a ramble again but hope I have explained OK?

BrightLight - what a pity you have been scared into this idea so early on your journey - when you might not have reached menopause anyway, and your menopause may turn out to be a couple of years away yet. At least you are doing lots of reading 


Hurdity x

[BrightLight]

BrightLight - what a pity you have been scared into this idea so early on your journey - when you might not have reached menopause anyway, and your menopause may turn out to be a couple of years away yet. At least you are doing lots of reading 


Hurdity x

Hi Hurdity, thanks for the links to the stress related info.  You are so right about the may or may not aspect of my situation and how I am struggling with this. I am increasingly feeling let down by the GP that telephoned me with his diagnosis and the way he delivered the information.  I guess I have latched onto his words 'ovarian failure' unusual and you are at risk now and you need HRT 

I have been reading a lot to get my head straight and take a step back and am slowly accepting that this isn't as black and white as the doctor says and I can expect things to only become clear as time goes on - still, it's a lot for me to take on and I would rather things just reverted to how they were - ignorant bliss

[scriv]

Brightlight, I think you are doing exactly the right thing in exploring all options and opinions before deciding which route is for you and to see if there is any other way for you of alleviating unpleasant symptoms of menopause as well as protecting yourself from risks. We are all different and thorough research and consultation with our GPs and other specialists all helps to find our own way. Likewise hearing the experiences and opinions of others and their 'journeys'.

I had a very early menopause at age of 39 and really did not want any HRT at all. I tried all sorts of preparations and did all my research and after having weighed up all the pros and cons I was strongly advised by my doctor to use it to protect my heart and bones, especially considering I had to take thyroxine and was of slim build.They did convince me and I used a low systemic HRT until I was about 53 or 54 and since then just use Vagifem vaginal oestrogen pessaries. This was very necessary for me as I had severe VA despite the HRT patch.

I am now 62 and on looking back I am so pleased that I did take HRT despite my reservations - but I am also pleased that I looked into all options available and made a well informed decision. My decision.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

[BrightLight]

Brightlight, your comment about adrenals is very relevant and I wonder if that has been part of my problem; much stress over past 3 years. I have had subclinical underactive thyroid as well, but my levels sorted themselves out.

I think that good diet, exercise etc are all important, even when taking hrt. Since my menopause, despite my healthy exercise and good diet, my cholesterol crept up, and even my good ratio started to dwindle so that was another reason for me moving to hrt, even for a short while.

Thanks for sharing your experience - I am having to accept that I can't know how this change will effect me and that's really a struggle right now.

[BrightLight]

Brightlight, I think you are doing exactly the right thing in exploring all options and opinions before deciding which route is for you and to see if there is any other way for you of alleviating unpleasant symptoms of menopause as well as protecting yourself from risks. We are all different and thorough research and consultation with our GPs and other specialists all helps to find our own way. Likewise hearing the experiences and opinions of others and their 'journeys'.

I had a very early menopause at age of 39 and really did not want any HRT at all. I tried all sorts of preparations and did all my research and after having weighed up all the pros and cons I was strongly advised by my doctor to use it to protect my heart and bones, especially considering I had to take thyroxine and was of slim build.They did convince me and I used a low systemic HRT until I was about 53 or 54 and since then just use Vagifem vaginal oestrogen pessaries. This was very necessary for me as I had severe VA despite the HRT patch.

I am now 62 and on looking back I am so pleased that I did take HRT despite my reservations - but I am also pleased that I looked into all options available and made a well informed decision. My decision.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Thanks for sharing your journey - right now I feel a bit overwhelmed, so much learning to do in order to make a choice. I can see that taking HRT might mean everything settles again and little aches or funny dry eyes, that only last a couple of hours right now, might just melt away - but then again they might not   At the crux of it, I am still coming to terms with accepting this change, however natural it is, I am not ready and would rather not be dealing with this. It is good to hear about your journey, thanks.

[honorsmum]

Bright Light, I'm like you. If someone could say, "you will feel rotten for 6 months, but then this will improve, this will disappear, this will happen", I think I would be able to weather the storm.
It's wondering how long I might feel like this for that is difficult. I feel like I'm in limbo, in so far as I have lost all ability to motivate myself, and the thought that this feeling could last for years is scary - I NEED to be able to get on with my life, to enjoy my children and my marriage.
If having HRT is what it takes, I'll take it.