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[MizzT]

Lol - it's cyclogest, not clynogel (making my own drugs up now).

I am not peri. Haven't had a period in over a year. I am 51. I did an original post that listed all this but I've waffled so much since it might have gotten bumped down the thread.

To the person who pm'd me, I am not permitted to send personal messages so can't reply for some reason. Sorry.

[Hurdity]

Those who have experience of both the pessaries and taking Utrogestan vaginally, could you let me know the pros/cons and which you prefer?

Hi there MizzT

Sorry have been busy - ah  - Cyclogest - now I know what you're talking about! Thought there was some weird new product been released that noone knew about 

Anyway - yes I have experience of both. When I first started using progesterone ( as opposed to synthetic prog) about 10 years ago I don't think Utrogestan had been invented - at least not for HRT and my enlightened GP prescribed me Cyclogest to go with oestrogen patches ( because I didn't want synthetic stuff). As there is no guidance on the dosage she prescribed 400 mg for 11 days per month (I was 54 at the time and late peri). This sounds like a lot but as they are waxy pessaries I don't think as much gets to the uterus as with utrogestan so the dosage is higher - but I think too high. It might have been too much but it did the trick. Mine came as 200 mg pessaries so I used to put one up the front and one up the back! I did find I got migraines quite regularly but most usually on withdrawal  of the prog until it cleared (like normal pmt), but also if I drank alcohol in the wrong way (have since learnt how I can still enjoy this and stay migraine free!). It certainly kept my lining clear - used to get a small bleed every 4 weeks. Later though once I was well post-meno (aged around 57 or 58) I didn't get a bleed at all so probably I could have extended my cycle on this or reduced the dose. I did also get a bit more foggy headed while taking it (the Cyclogest that is).

I won't bore you with the HRT saga after I changed from Cyclogest - but in 2011 I changed to utrogestan  (discovered through this forum - my GP was still prescribing Cyclogest) - again using vaginally 200 mg x 12 days per month and then extended to 6-8 week cycle (doc is OK with this).

I can't say which I prefer really. I think had the dose been lower with the Cyclogest ( ie 200 mg) it would have been better. This product is specifically designed as a pessary/suppository - but is different ie waxy capsule whereas utrogestan is a very small slightly soft squashy ball. I sometimes wonder if the 100 mg capsules do the job as they are so small and more outer coating to dissolve before the prog goo gets into the system?

The main thing is it's better to err on the side of using more than less to start with and under supervision of your doc and then work together to reduce dose or lengthen cycle if your system is OK with this (ie womb lining).

Hopoe this helps

Hurdity x

[MizzT]

That's brilliant, Hurdity. Just what I needed. Thanks very much.

[flaxhigh]

Hi

Just found this oestrogel support group. I've posted this on 'all things menopause' but wonder if anyone in this group has had any adverse reactions to oestrogel?
 
I only started last week on just 2 pumps (not 3 as prescribed as I wanted to build up slowly). First 2 days no effects, 3rd day I started feeling mild nausea and badly dizzy plus pounding heart for 24 hours. On the 4th day (Saturday) I cut the dose to 1 pump and had the most appalling pounding heart and 'elephant on chest' feeling for 29 hours. Today, I have a serious headache.

I don't feel I can try the oestrogel again as I really can't face feeling I'm about to have a heart attack. It was very pronounced and scary.

Just to add I wasn't feeling anxious or having a panic attack. It was just as though I was shot with adrenaline in a very extreme way.

I note that on side-effects, the info says: if you have a fast, pounding heart, stop and seek medical attention immediately.

[Dancinggirl]

My gynae always suggests starting low and increasing the dose slowly over several weeks to allow the body to adjust. This makes sense to me - hitting things hard with a high dose is bound to give the body a shock. DG x

[flaxhigh]

How low did you start Dancinggirl? I still had the adverse reaction after just one pump.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Hello,

I am starting Utrogestan tablets orally tonight after 2 weeks of Estrogel 1 pump.

I am really looking for some support as things have been so very difficult over the past two months.

Basically after starting Evorel Sequi 4 months ago several of my peri symptoms disappeared (low mood, anxiety, dry skin, crashing fatigue and aches). However after 3 months I was signed off work as I started to become really really anxious. I have tried cbt, mindfulness, exercise and eating well. All these things help a little.

I thought it might be my hormones underneath and a reaction to the norehistine part of Evorel Sequi so stopped that two weeks ago.

So here I am with really high levels of anxiety still and loose bowels three times every morning and difficulty staying asleep (I take 40 mg amitriptyline and go to sleep ok but wake up anywhere between 2 am and 5 am). I am also on ad's.

I had blood tests done yesterday in case I have hyperthyroidism and will get the results on Friday.

I have also applied for counselling and am waiting to hear.

I am really hoping some members will hold my hand a bit through this as I have no idea if utrogestan will help me. If it makes me feel sedated then that would probably help at the moment. I presume it can't cause more anxiety?!!! Please tell me it's unlikely to!

I am just trying to get through each day at the moment and would really love to get through this and come out the other side. The gp says I have to give the HRT 6 weeks to see if it is starting to help. That feels a very long way away right now.

Thank you.

[Mary G]

Mindfulmoomins, sorry to hear about your anxiety but don't worry, you will get plenty of support on here! 

You will probably find you sleep much better with the Utrogestan, it has a calming effect.   You can use it vaginally if you like, it does have fewer side effects when used that way and it also works better for lining clearance.

If you don't start to feel better soon, you might need to increase your dose of Oestrogel.  One pump sounds a bit low and not enough if you suffer with hormonal depression and anxiety.

You might want to read some of Gypsy Rose Lee's posts, she suffered from hormonal anxiety and depression and is now doing extremely well on 4 pumps of Oestrogel and Utrogestan together with ADs.

Hope that helps.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Thank you very much Mary G.

I have sent a pm to gypseyroselee and read some of her posts. It is good to know there might be someone with a similar story.

The GP and Dr Currie (in an email I paid for) both said more Estrogel might help. I am not sure how much more though. Neither specified. Do you think increasing to two pumps is the next sensible step? Then after a week add another pump if things are no better?

Thank you.

[Hurdity]

Hi Mindfulmoomins - it's always best to increase oestrogen slowly so that you can reach the level at which you feel better without the side effects of too much. Depending on how you absorb it I know some women use 1.5 pumps. Also some women increase their oestrogen when on the progesterone phase of HRT which for some women can alleviate some of the side effects of the prog (but not everyone gets them!).

I wonder also if taking that mix of meds might somehow interfere with how you are feeling and be giving you some of the symptoms. What are you taking the Amitryp for (if you don't mind my asking)? if you are taking this and ADs could these be affecting your bowels?

If you took a really high dose like GypsyRoseLee then it would most probably suppress your cycle ( that is why these high doses are given) and then would prevent your mood swings that were due to hormones anyway. This might well be an option long term.

Hurdity x

[Mindfulmoomins]

Thanks Hurdity,

As I start the ultrogestan tonight I will try 2 pumps Estrogel which will be easier than trying to do a pump and a half I think.

The loose bowels (can't believe I am discussing this - sorry!) has been going on for about 6/8 weeks and the amitriptyline was supposed to help with that and sleep. It did for a bit. The anxiety/adrenaline/heart thumping has remained no matter what I try. Meditation and distraction help to some extent.

Really hard to know what is what. I don't think the mix of meds is ideal but the Gp said lots of patients are on ad's and amitriptyline and the amitriptyline is until the HRT starts helping and things are more stable. Then we will review and reduce it.

The Gp has also suggested taking a sleeping tablet if I wake up in the early hours tonight. Really would rather not but felt really quite desperate this morning so might do in the hope of getting one good night.

Fingers crossed I sleep better tonight. I have always been able to sleep anywhere and LOVE my sleep so this is all very new to me.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Hi everyone,

I did sleep better but took a sleeping tablet at 3 am (a soggy one after knocking my pint of water all over it trying to find it in the dark). I think the progesterone was sedating so I hope that helps tonight.

I have had a bit of light spotting today. Is that normal when starting utrogestan?

I know I could do a search but when I do I end up reading loads of posts and when I experience anxiety that's not a great idea.

Kind wishes.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Hello again,

I have yet another question. I have seen threads of here where quite complex looking blood tests results are discussed where everything from cortisol to various thyroid reasults and oestrogen levels are shown. Are these only available privately or through specialty menopause clinics?

Thank you in advance!

[Hurdity]

Hi Mindfulmoomins - maybe best to start a new post about the blood tests as it might get lost amongst this very specific thread? As far as I know most of those sorts of tests are only available privately. The thyroid test usually done initially on NHS is TSH and some I think also do T4. It is only once you have been diagnosed that more in depth thyroid tests are done (especially if a patient is under the care of or has been referred to an endocrinologist) and even so not all. Defo ask on a new thread about this one. Cortisol I don't think is done - probably only if there is impaired adrenal function is suspected - but you would need to ask. Also oestrogen levels are not necessarily measured - only under certain circumstances - as these aren't really necessary for "normal" menopause.

Not sure about the spotting - it probably was going to happen anyway?

I didn't know amitryp was also a bowel medication - I thought it was for nerve pain mainly? I gather it is prescribed for many reasons ( judging by reports on here ) - and that's a new one on me! I was prescribed it for vulval/urethral pain but I didn't take it!

I hope you sleep better....

Hurdity x

[Mindfulmoomins]

Thank you Hurdity,

I will re-post this elsewhere.

Thanks also for all the info.

I didn't know about amitriptyline for bowels either. Not sure it's been effective for that anyway in my case! It seems to be used in low doses for all sorts of things doesn't it?!

X