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Author Topic: utrogestan/estrogel support group  (Read 176054 times)

HopeAlone

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1260 on: November 21, 2017, 05:49:34 PM »

Thanks cassie, slept a bit better last night so I'm hoping the more I take the better I sleep. I wonder if using it vaginaly would make a difference ? It's like a juggling act all these hormones and other meds I need a degree to sort them out !
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Cassie

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1261 on: November 21, 2017, 06:26:42 PM »

I use it vaginally still gives me horrible insomnia and silly dreams. >:(
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MizzT

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1262 on: December 05, 2017, 12:43:25 AM »

HI

Newbie to the board and to HRT. My head is buzzing with questions but I will try to keep it simple. I am 51 and haven't had a period in just over a year. I think I might have had my last one in July 2016 but I took the mini pill in December last year and had a never ending period that started 6 days later (red at first, then brown) and lasted for about 3 weeks after. I stopped the pill by the time it ended. Not sure if you can count this as a period or a withdrawal bleed?

Anyway, key things to mention are that I have a fairly serious medical condition that started a couple of years ago and seems to be linked to menopause and although there is no official position on it, the research seems to suggest it could be caused by the drop in estrogen. Some research has found that estradiol seems to help. Either way, estradiol 1.25mcg a day plus vaginal progesterone at 100mcg per day has been found to be safe for those with my condition.

Having said that, I've suffered histamine intolerance for the last 18 months. I have only just realised, since looking back over my menstrual history, that it started roughly after my periods stopped being regular in July 2016. Despite this serious condition I am supposed to have (debatable...but that's an argument for another day), my main probs are histamine intolerance, hot flushes, insomnia. The latter is a real problem, but I've always had trouble sleeping, especially around the time my period was due.

My symptoms weren't too bad but as mentioned, I thought HRT might help in a number of ways, and I had also developed a patch of melasma on my face during the summer about a fortnight after I started the mini pill again (at that point, I wasn't sure if it had been a year since my last period due to my confusion over the bleed in Nov, so I thought it best to take something). I had no bleed after I stopped. Flushes increased a bit if I remember right but it was summer and I've been putting the increase in flushes down to histamine intolerance, so they could have actually been going on for a while.

In the past, the only combined pill I could take was Logynon because I got breakthrough bleeding with anything else, plus I had a massive fibroid in my early forties that shrunk a bit after I had an arterial embolisation. Around that time, I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism, which i take levothyroxine for.

Ok, so - to the questions:

I tried a progesterone cream vaginally for a couple of days. I felt tired when using it but it seemed my hot flushes got worse so I didn't sleep any better. Woke up drenched a couple of nights after only a few hours sleep. By that time, I'd done my research on estradiol and realised I could benefit from it in multiple ways. I decided to go to the GP armed with the info I found here (thanks). He prescribed Estrogel and I started on a lower dose of just one pump a day. I am watching for any negative symptoms regarding my condition and my histamine intolerance before I increase to the recommended dose.

Problem is, the flushes have become more frequent and intense and the insomnia has worsened. I know everyone says to persevere and/or increase to the recommended dose. That seems counter intuitive to me but I am willing to try. Before I do that I want to know if it is triggering more flashes and histamine intolerance, is that likely to calm down once I add progesterone?

Second question - doc knew I wanted a vaginal progesterone so gave me clynogel 200mcgs to use for 15 days a month. From what I read, I don't need to take this much for so long if I stay on the low dose of Estrogel. I want to follow Professor Studd's protocol of 7 days @100mcg. Or maybe 10 days if that is recommended. Can I cut the pessaries in half length ways to do this? Can I use it at night?

Do you think Clynogel will be as good as Utrogestan? I would take the latter vaginally for the same amount of time. I am not averse to taking it orally but am mindful of the health/histamine issue. Doc put it on my prescription first by mistake (we got confused about the fact the capsules could be used vaginally, I guess) so I think I can get some ready to start on day 14.

I hope all of the above makes sense and I didn't waffle too much. Thanks in advance for any advice you can share.

Finally, I see Prof Studd talk about taking the progesterone for first 7 days of the cycle. Seeing as I am having no periods so dont know when that is, can I just start taking it now for a week? Will it help with some of the issues I am experiencing? And would you recommend a cyclical dose because I am early meno?
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Taz2

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1263 on: December 05, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »

Hi MizzT

Just wanted to welcome you to the forum although I am not knowledgeable enough about vaginal progesterone to answer your questions. Someone will be along soon who will be able to help I'm sure. I do think that if you have an underlying, serious, medical condition then it may be unwise to experiment with different doses etc. especially if you are on medication.

I've been looking at histamine intolerance too as I realised that most of my skin rashes etc are caused by things on the list!

You will find lots of help and advice on here.

Taz x
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Lanzalover

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1264 on: December 05, 2017, 11:03:26 AM »

Hi MizzT


 :welcomemm:


I too am unable to answer you questions but You really shouldn't alter the dose of progesterone without medical supervision. I am sure someone with more knowledge than me will along with some advice.


Lanzalover x
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MizzT

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1265 on: December 05, 2017, 02:34:05 PM »

Thanks guys. Just to reassure you, the 'serious health condition' is not as scary as I made it sound. I am in touch with my hospital team on a regular basis where we have frequent punch ups about what has caused the issue (seriously, they hate me, lol). I am monitored regularly though and want to get settled on my HRT regime before they check up on me again so they can see if it is having any positive/negative effects. My doc knows less than nothing about this condition so I am not too worried about taking his advice too seriously. He said continuous HRT would be fine because it's over a year since I had a period, prescribed Urtrogestan then changed it to clynogel, but only gave me enough for 15 days. I'm pretty confident he hasn't got a clue what he is doing. As with everything  that has happened over the last couple of years, it seems I am pretty much going to have to be responsible for my own health. I think being diagnosed incorrectly with SEVEN different things before they finally decided that one symptom = a serious health condition, makes me a little skeptical. But I am very careful, so please don't worry.
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Daisydot

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1266 on: December 05, 2017, 03:47:58 PM »

Hi mizzT you could always send an email question to Dr Currie and as its private tell her what your serious health issue is and ask her the relevant question you need advice with.she's absolutely fabulous at giving the menopause advice we all need.Just a suggestion. I did this and I'm so glad I did as she did me a written reply that I could print off and take to my gp this week as they are also bloody clueless but I'm hoping this particular doctor I'm going to will be an improvement on previous one.good luck x
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MizzT

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1267 on: December 05, 2017, 11:45:25 PM »

Hi - thanks Daisydot.

I probably won't email Dr Currie yet as I doubt she would be comfortable giving me advice because she's not an expert in this field. If I go to my hospital team and ask for advice, they will say they are not experts in reproductive medicine/endocrinology and will refer me back to my GP...who won't do a hormone test because I am over 45... so, yet again, I will have to gather my own information and make my own mind up. This is not my first rodeo, lol. If I could afford to go private I would, but I can't.

If it helps you guys feel better sharing some of your experiences with me, I told the doc at the sexual health clinic about my condition last year and she checked that it was fine for me to take the progesterone only mini pill, which it was.

I'd just like a little guidance on whether it is best at my age/stage of menopause to do a cyclical system and if I can cut the clynogel pessaries in half. Those who have experience of both the pessaries and taking Utrogestan vaginally, could you let me know the pros/cons and which you prefer? And could I start the progesterone whenever I want as I have no periods or do I need to wait until the 14th day since I started Estrogel? If I am on one pump of Estrogel, is 100mcg of progesterone for 7 days enough to start with? Thanks
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 11:47:23 PM by MizzT »
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Dancinggirl

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1268 on: December 06, 2017, 08:10:51 AM »

MizzT - you need Hurdity to advice you on all this.
Itís no good trying to follow Studdís regime without actually seeing him privately, as his protocols  are not in line with the NICE guidelines that GPs must follow. Studd will also carry out regular scans to check the womb lining and this is not available on the NHS.
I cannot advice about utrogestan usage as this progesterone gave me more side  effects than any other type of progesterone and with 25 years of experience of using HRT, due to premature menopause, I have tried virtually everything going.
It is very important to use enough progesterone each month to ensure the womb lining doesnít build up, which can result in erratic bleeding and potentially increase the risk of womb cancer ( very small risk of cancer though). Utrogestan is not as stable as most other progesterones so not as good at protecting the womb lining.
Many women canít tolerate any progesterone used continuously , so they put up with the bleed that comes with a sequi HRT regime.
I do have to tell you that Utrogestan was the only progesterone that gave me a nasty itchy rash in my face !! I believe this type of rash is listed as a side effect. I assume Clynogel contains the same type of progesterone (micronised progesterone) as Utrogestan?
I would definitely email Dr Currie for advice as you need more secialist advice. DG x
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MizzT

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1269 on: December 06, 2017, 10:37:12 AM »

Thanks DancingGirl

I've done some further research overnight and realised that I need to rethink this whole HRT issue unless and until I can afford to get a proper hormone profile done. There is so much conflicting information out there.

Upon checking my records, I realised there were two times an important test showed an improvement - it was when I'd been on a calcium channel blocker or CCB (something that only works for a few people with my condition - hence why I think this is a symptom of something else). You know what I discovered CCBs do?? They reduce the amount of estradiol in your system by 50%! Something else that might be a good reason to not do anything for fear of doing the wrong thing is I realised suddenly last night that the steady improvement in my health over the last 18 months corresponds with my periods stopping. My histamine intolerance is still a pain but better than it was a year ago. There is so much disagreement about estrogen deficiency vs dominance online but I am starting to wonder if my natural reduction in estrogen, along with the CCBs I have been taking almost constantly for the last year which have further reduced my estrogen levels, are the reason for my improvement?

The guidelines for women with my condition say you can take HRT if you have severe menopause issues. The research shows that estrogen plays a role in developing this condition because women get it more than men, but men have worse disease developments and outcomes, so there is a bit of an estrogen paradox going on. My team have never said a word to me about it, nor tested my hormone levels, so if there is a connection, I found it by my own research and record keeping. This is pretty typical of my experience, I am afraid. I know the NHS can't afford to get to the bottom of every condition someone presents with, so I am not mad at them, but I really have felt like I am only still here today due to my own efforts over the last couple of years.

Thanks for the warning about Utrogestan and Clynogel. I wouldn't even be considering HRT if my skin hadn't turned into a crumpled brown bag seemingly overnight. I would say in the space of 2 months, it went from pretty good for my age to awful. There's a bit of vanity involved, yes...but also a bit of a worry that what was showing on the outside was evidence of something I was lacking on the inside. My flashes were annoying but over pretty quickly and only happened a couple of times a day. I was thinking though, if the mini pill was safe for me, is there any reason not to use a low dose progesterone cream from someone reputable like Wellsprings on my skin, if not internally?

I hope me sharing the above info will reassure you all that I am VERY careful and double/triple check every single thing. Please do feel free to continue to share any info you have with me without any need to fear I will go and do something daft with it  ;D Thanks again.

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Mary G

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1270 on: December 06, 2017, 10:50:25 AM »

MizzT, many of us on here have happily and successfully consulted Professor Studd and are doing well on his preferred regime.   There are women who don't get on with it for various reasons but they are a minority.   

I am severely intolerant to all types of progesterone used in HRT preparations so his 7 day vaginal 100mg Utrogestan regime was a life saver and a life changer for me and made HRT viable because taking more progesterone is completely out of the question in my case - I have regular uterine scans which have all confirmed this dose of progesterone is enough for me.  I had previously used patches and pills unsuccessfully so he recommended Oestrogel and the difference was staggering, I felt completely back to normal in a short space of time which I really didn't think was possible.

That is just my personal experience but you are right, you have to gather information and make up your own mind.   

Good luck.
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Linsey44

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1271 on: December 06, 2017, 08:32:51 PM »

Hi

Ive used oestrogel for a few years, at the beginning it was the original oestrogel pump but now I only get the generic Oestrodose.

Is it my imagination or is this just not as effective?  Also thicker in formula, takes lomger to absorb etc.

Just thought I would ask others for their views.

Thanks

Linsey x
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Hurdity

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1272 on: December 07, 2017, 09:05:18 AM »

Hi MizzT

I can't comment on your health conditions but as far as oestrogen and HRT are concerned - if your periods are few and far between (in the absence of taking POP) so that you are in late peri-menopause then your oestrogen will be much lower and on a downward trajectory.  If you are getting symptoms like flushes and sweats amongst others, then menopause and lack of oestrogen is the likely cause if you are in your 40's and especially over 45 and HRT should alleviate them (after checking for other health conditions that can cause sweats).

I can only echo what the others have said re the licensed dose of progesterone to protect the womb. Progesterone cream is absolutely not recommended in any shape or form anywhere in the world (by the menopause societies), for endometrial protection if taking oestrogen HRT - so no don't use this if using gel otherwise you risk womb lining thickening.

Also I am confused a bit by your info - there is no such product as Clynogel as far as I can make out (but stand to be corrected - although it is not anywhere on the web). Please check the package and let us know what it is so that we can advise you. Also the amounts you quote are a bit different than are normally used - perhaps the units are different. Oestrogen gel is usually given in g for the amount of gel and mg for oestroadiol, but patches in mcg! Progesterone itself in mg so utrogestan is 100 or 200 mg. I can't think what pessaries yours might be?

Hopefully we can help further if you can clarify?

Hurdity x
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Nin17

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1273 on: December 07, 2017, 11:20:30 AM »

Hello ladies,

Estrogen and sweats, utro vag...

Its been a few months since I posted, I started hrt to address some early peri meno and also hormonal aggravated migraines which are chronic.

2 months in, I feel its helping both with some days sympthons and pain free which I'm grateful for. The part that caused me headache twinges was utro. At my last apt, my doc told me to reduce to 10 days per month and if its causing headache, switch to vaginal route. She also told me I could move up to 1.5 mg divigel per day which I've done now for 6 days. Last night was my first time to do utro vaginally and I was 6 days on my new divigel regime, I got a night sweat which up to now only ever arrived a day or two before a period...
Do u think the new route for utro caused it or am I on too much estrogen (am on day 20 of cycle)...
Thanks very much for any inputs or advice, my meno gp not in surgery till next week

Nin xx :)
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MizzT

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Re: utrogestan/estrogel support group
« Reply #1274 on: December 07, 2017, 02:13:47 PM »

Lol - it's cyclogest, not clynogel (making my own drugs up now).

I am not peri. Haven't had a period in over a year. I am 51. I did an original post that listed all this but I've waffled so much since it might have gotten bumped down the thread.

To the person who pm'd me, I am not permitted to send personal messages so can't reply for some reason. Sorry.
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