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[Clovie]

An update...

Been on the microgynon now for about 11 days - been struggling to keep on it. 
I am stopping taking it today.

I had to get up at 4am this morning as I felt so so down 
been waking up feeling utterly utterly miserable and waking hubby up with my sobbing a few times.
I was laid in bed thinking all depressive thoughts - is this it? my future looks sooo bleak, a dark lonely black road into old age then death.

While I've been on this hormonal rollercoaster (started HRT back in November) I can't be bothered to do my hair anymore and avoid going out of the house unless I'm with my hubby. Can't be bothered much with make-up but if I DO go out without it, it just feeds my self loathing and gives people a reason to look at me like I'm a sad old miserable nutcase. I used to look forward to going to see bands and such life with my hubby - now I feel I have no place at such places 
I'm so sensitive, I find I can easily take offence at mostly everyone as I think everyone is against me, that people don't like me - and who can blame them, I'm so boring.....
Sense of humour which is usually very good is gone - and most importantly - I've given up trying to make friends now.
( We moved to countryside after hubbys redundancy so he could start new job, can't find a job, (too cheesed off to work now anyway) My kids are older now and youngest still at primary but gets taken to school by taxi due to distance so don't see anyone all day, can't sell house in order to move...big sigh.......  )

Please forgive me waffling.
so lonely.
thank god for the internet. I don't know any other ladies who are at this stage perimenopausal, or will admit to it anyway.
Wish there was a facebook group for affected ladies to chat about other things than our hormones to have a giggle, make us feel we are still human and not be defined by our failing hormones 

sorry for waffling - am going to pluck up courage to make apt to go back to clinic.
wish me luck.


 

[Hurdity]

Hi clovie

So sorry to hear you are obviously feeling very miserable at the moment.

It does sound as thought the microgynon does not agree with you.

I would definitely make that appointment! Have a look at what I've suggested earlier in the thread. in your position I would stop the microgynon - and have the bleed that will occur I imagine. Then I would ask for a separate oestrogen (could be tablet or patch or gel as I suggested) and progesterone and I would go on the oestrogen for at least 3 weeks before starting the prog and see how you feel on this. Then take Utrogestan 200 mg for 10 days as per the license. If you are progesterone intolerant you  may experience side effects - either while taking it, or just after you stop or both.

If the effects are still really bad then you may be able to negotiate taking the prog for a shorter time eg 7 days per month - along with regular scans. Gynaes can vary this at their discretion. This is what Studd recommends for prog intolerance - I think I probably said before.

Re feeling lonely - whereabouts in UK are you? Is there a village nearby? Do you drive? Can you get involved in something at the local school where your child goes eg the PTA or help at events? That would get you out to meet people. I live in the country too but in a village and when my children were small my social life revolved around them, the playgroup and then friends from the school and I was on the PTA for a long time.

Try little steps - set yourself a little goal each day eg something nice for your hair, and treat yourself to something new to wear, somewhere to go out at least once a week....

How does your husband feel about it and is he supportive?

You must talk to someone about how you feel. I am sure it is down to hormones and once you are able to take something to make you feel better you will want to do your hair and go out again. The peri-menopause is a drag isn't it - with hormones all over the place?

Another really drastic step which I know someone who used to be on here had, in your position, was a hysterectomy - because she had severe PMS and a related syndrome I can't remember the name of. I know it's very drastic but then she was able to take oestrogen without any of the awful depressed feelings which it sounds as though you are having.

Do keep us posted and good luck with that appointment. If necessary get referred to someone else!

I hope you feel better soon.

Hurdity x

[Clovie]

Thank you Hurdity

feel quite not as utterly bleak today. took sleeping tablet last night, you see so wasn't up at 4am.

I did stop the tablets

I tried to make apt at the clinic (where the doctor had said there were 3 clinics a week and would be able to drop in and see her had I chosen to have Mirena coil inserted and needed it removing urgently if I'd had symptoms)

I told the miserable receptionist I needed to see someone urgently as I'd stopped my medication and I was feeling extremely low.
3 weeks she said was the next free appointment - 3 WEEKS!!!! good job I didn't decide to try the mirena coil, as the doctor was kind of pushing for.
I sdaid OK but I might have to see another someone else there if I didn't feel any better
She took great delight in telling me only 2 docots and both booked up solid 

Got off phone burst into tears, phoned hubby - he got on the phone to her and told her she needed to get one of the medical team to ting me regarding me stopping my tablets if I couldn't be seen!!!!

I have taken one of the oestrogen only tablets from my old Tridestra pack and intend taking them until I see someone.
So I must wait now until tomorrow afternoon for someone to ring me hopefully .

Thanks for reading 

[Limpy]

Hope things get better

 

[paisley]

Clovie,
           sorry you are feeling so low but I can completely understand.
I started peri meno feb 2009 and didn't have symptoms til October 2009 and then awful ones. anyway like you went on hrt but when it came to the progesterone part it literally made me crazy like you feel in that faze, it is not you it is the progesterone. For some women it just doesn't agree with them. I tried synthetic and natural and they both made me crazy, I lasted a bit longer on the natural but not much. In the end I had to have a hysterectomy and still trying to find hormonal balance but at least it is easier without the progesterone side of things.
It is hard when you feel that bad but it dos get better and at least you know what is making you feel so bad. take care xx

[Clovie]

Thank you for the hug Limpy, I needed it xxxx


And thank you for your reply Paisley!

Not happy that you have been through same thing as I'm going through  but sure is good to hear from someone who knows how I feel right now (a bit unhinged!!  )
I am just waiting it out until the prog gets out of my system ....again 

I'm soooo soooo very sorry you are still feeling poopy even though you've had a hysterectomy!!!!!! 
That was always my worst case scenario- thinking if it gets that bad I can have one and I'd be fine after that!!!
How awful to go through all that and still feel not quite right!

I don't want to go see my GP and tell her how I'm feeling as she will prob suggest anti-depressants, I had post natal depression twice and each time I went through a fair few anti-depressants and not one of them made me feel any better - they made me feel WORSE in fact, all the weird scary side effects (night terrors!!  ) and on top of that my already almost non existent sex drive gets wiped out completely on them 

I have spoken to my meno doctor now and I can carry on with the oestrogen phase Tridestra until I see her in 2 weeks - she's already trying to get me on Mirena again yet I have TOLD her I want utrogestan!!!
 My hubby coming with me so I stand my ground.
it must be a cost issue why she keeps pushing mirena???

Sick of feeling poopy, and anyway, as I say, so sorry you're still not right Paisley. If you want to chat please message me I'd be happy to swap notes...

Take care all
xxxxx

[Hurdity]

So glad you have talked to your meno doctor clovie and she is happy for you to be on the oestrogen only tabs for the moment, and I do hope this makes you feel better. If it does you will absolutely know it is the progestogen causing this.

I don't know about the cost issue because lots of women are given monthly HRT, but it does sound to me as though your doc thinks your problems are to do with fluctuating progestogen levels so that's why she wants to put you on continuous prog - which the Mirena does, as does the pill when given continuously. It doesn;t sound as though she has considered that you may be progesterone intolerant.

Great that you will have support from your husband when you go for your appt. At least the Utrogestan is worth a try and maybe as I said you will be a candidate for taking a shorter course of prog per month and be monitored with regular scans to check on your womb lining.

Back when you first posted, you said that Utrogestan was low on her list and not sure why - seemed to want you to go on pill and Mirena first - but if you don't want it - don't have it!! Unopposed oestrogen would not be recommended - I certainly wouldn't want to risk this because it can cause hyperplasia quite quickly, from what I've read, which can lead to cancer

Hoping you feel better really soon and if there is anything else you need to ask before you go to the docs we can try to help

Hurdity x

[Clovie]

thank you, again, Hurdity, you're a star 
I will have a think about which oestrogen to take with the Utrogestan (that I am now going to push to have and will refuse Mirena) and ask if I can't work it out. 

[Hurdity]

Another thing I thought of - if/when you ask for Utrogestan I suggest you ask for it in 100 mg doses so that you can experiment about when to take it - on account of your history of problems with progesterone.

The manufacturers instructions suggest taking it in two x 100 mg doses if there are undesirable side effects eg drowsiness, nausea or dizziness - although it is supposed to be taken at night on an empty stomach so hopefully you would be asleep for the peak concentration in your blood.  Nevertheless it still can cause some side effects in severely prog intolerant women - so just something to bear in mind.

Re the oestrogen - it is a matter of preference ie tabs or patches/gel and just make sure you take one that is estradiol. The most common one is Elleste Solo. The others are either horse urine derived (Premarin) or oestradiol valerate. Although that is converted to estradiol in the body - might as well not have to do this and just take it straight if you are having pills!

They are all listed in the menu ( green writing) on the left:

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/treatafter.php

Hope you are beginning to feel better?

Hurdity  x

[Clovie]

Hello all

Been back to see my meno specialist - and I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!!! 
Good job I took my hubby to help me stand my ground regarding the Mirena coil which she tried to push on me again despite me telling her I wanted to try utrogestan.

She eventually relented and said OK I could try them, but was very pessimistic about them working for me  asking what I was going to do next if/when the utrogestan didn't work

Also - she told me I would need to take the utrogestan continuously!!!!!!!!
I said no because I am clearly prog intolerant (she agreed with me there) but she said I needed to take it continuously to protect my womb!!!!!!
I was on the verge of tears at this point

She went on to give me a good telling saying how risky it was to take prog for only part of my cycle blah blah blah, making me feel foolish like I was dicing with death 

In the end she agreed to me taking utrogestan for HALF my cycle - but said I need to have a bleed every month.

I am at a very low place right now. I cannot bear the prospect of me going through this prog hell every single month 
Even my own GP gave me long cycle HRT to reduce the amount of time I am exposed to the prog. She was totally against this. I feel like I have taken a step backwards. She wouldn't hear of it. And talked only of me trying the Mirena coil if this utrogestan makes me feel bad.
I ideally wanted to have a two monthly cycle because I am sooo badly affected by prog, you see.

She also told me I could not possibly supplement my oestrogen tablet with a gel.  I told her I felt that I wasn't getting quite enough oestrogen (I've read upping oestrogen might help with my awful insomnia and wanted to try that before I ask for anti-depressants - but then again I am afraid to ask for any help in this area after having read a post on here the other day    )

I feel like I've not been listened to, feel I have been fobbed off. Feel like I am being pushed onto Mirena

If anyone has read this, thanks for reading xx

[honeybun]

What a terrible time you are having. It's dreadful when you feel they are not on your side.

I can't remember, sorry, but have you considered just trying with no HRT at all. You could use Vagifem to protect against VA but is this all really worth it. Would you feel any worse than you feel now.

I hope you are not offended by this suggestion but if it was me I think I would  say enough is enough and try without anything.

Honeyb
X

[Limpy]

Clovie it must be so stressful, after you / we thought the meno clinic would be helpful.

Might be worth speaking to the GP who gave you long cycle HRT, explain to her how you feel and get her suggestions.

You say you took your OH with you, what does he think? They can surprise you with very sensible comments sometimes!

Also, Honeybs suggestion of just using Vagifem, or other vaginal oestrogen may be worth a go.
I can't remember how old you are, but is contraception an issue? if it is a COCP will serve multiple purposes, may be worth having another go.

The thing is you are in control, pick what you want to do. Get opinions off GP, OH and others.
Don't panic!

 

[Clovie]

Honeybun - thank you for your reply, no I'm not offended at all, I love your suggestion - but  - I had horrendous hot flushes without the oestrogen, got so bad I was putting off going anywhere as was embarrassed by it, a red and sweaty face is not a 'good look'  plus my mood swings irritability and insomnia were still there at the same time (granted not as bad as when on progesterone)

Limpy - thanks for reply - Might go back and see my GP who was happy to prescribe long cycle in form of Tridestra - bottom line - what I want is long cycle (2 months) oestrogen with the least offensive prog for the least possible but safe duration. I also think my oestrogen needs topping up a bit, at least willing to try it for a short time to see if I'm right, and it may also help with my nonexistant libido.
Not too much to ask eh? 

Think I'm going to have to end up seeing someone privately. 

 thanks for reading xxxx