Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Ruth Emery on August 04, 2022, 04:07:56 PM
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Hello I am a new member today and desperate for some advice about what I think could be vaginal atrophy!?
I am on HRT patches and progesterone tablets also taking Estradiol vaginally X3 a week but really struggling with burning symptoms and needing to urinate all of the time! It's got so tiring and don't know what to do currently. I'm trying VM moisturiser last 2 days but not relieved it..any help would be amazing at this point!
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Hello Ruth. Welcome to the forum. I understand the pain of vaginal atrophy and your symptoms are classic of it. I would use the Estradiol daily. Do you also apply a little on the outer area? You can mix it with the Yes VM and apply to the outer area. Vaginal atrophy treatment can take time to work. There are lots of threads on here about vaginal atrophy. There is an ongoing thread I will link for you in case you would like to browse it.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22886.0.html
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Welcome to the wonderful world of vaginal atrophy. Not >:(
Don't despair. Use what you have been prescribed nightly for at least 2-3 weeks. I would put a treatment up there now and another when you get into bed. Then every night.
When I get the need2P symptoms I take 2 'nurofen' capsules 3 times a day to ease the nip as the urine flow stops.
Let us know how you get on.
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Thankyou so much for your reply..the Estradiol is a tablet but I do have some estriol cream that I used to use..do you mean this? I will check out the other post you have kindly attached 😊
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Welcome to the wonderful world of vaginal atrophy. Not >:(
Don't despair. Use what you have been prescribed nightly for at least 2-3 weeks. I would put a treatment up there now and another when you get into bed. Then every night.
When I get the need2P symptoms I take 2 'nurofen' capsules 3 times a day to ease the nip as the urine flow stops.
Let us know how you get on.
Many thanks.. when you say a treatment do you mean the VM moisturiser?? I've used at this morning and then this afternoon already out of desperation 😳
Any idea on how long this takes to settle?
Many thanks 😊
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Thankyou so much for your reply..the Estradiol is a tablet but I do have some estriol cream that I used to use..do you mean this? I will check out the other post you have kindly attached 😊
As it is a tablet I would use it daily. It is good you have some cream too and this is what you can use on the outer area. :)
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Agree with Flossieteacake's advice: Estradiol is the main treatment for vaginal atrophy, inserted as far into the vagina as is comfortable to soften the area. Moisturisers are helpful for the outer labial regions, they don't however improve the loss of oestrogen.
OK so you've put a VA Moisturiser treatment up this afternoon, so use the Estradiol around 8.00 p.m. Plus pain relief now to ease the need2P feelings.
VA can settle within a week or may take a few more. It depends on how the vaginal tissues accept the preparation prescribed: I use 'ovestin' which is delivered by applicator rather than a pessary. It worked with 10 days when I began a few years ago, now I can monitor how many nights the vagina needs it - this treatment is forever.
Caused by a loss of oestrogen as we age, it can affect the body: inside and out; skin, vagina, eyes, deep in the ears, back of the throat. As well as the muscles may become lax = aches and pains.
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Oh what joy we all face with this! I'm physically knackered with this all the time but feel so much better now I know there might be a bit of hope!
Thankyou so much for all the replies 😊 very much appreciated,I will keep you posted 👍🏻
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Don't despair this can be sorted ;)
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I certainly can't cope with many more days like this!! 🤞🏼🤞🏼🙏🏼
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Oh what joy we all face with this! I'm physically knackered with this all the time but feel so much better now I know there might be a bit of hope!
Thankyou so much for all the replies 😊 very much appreciated,I will keep you posted 👍🏻
The constant trips to the loo is really draining. I do not know how you feel about this but I have totally given up caffeine in an attempt to reduce the loo trips as caffeine can stimulate the bladder. I felt like I had flu for about 10 days until it was out my system so it is a bit extreme.
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I only tend to have a cup of tea a day and 1 coffee and atm would definitely try anything!!
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Hi Ruth. Welcome. Have you had your urine tested for any infection? As we get older there is often no cystitis type pain but the discomfort you mention, especially the urgency, is common.
Taz x :welcomemm:
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If that's all you drink Ruth Emery no wonder you are into the loo constantly, your kidneys will be working overtime :-\
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I use Yes VM morning and evening internally. And Yes OB or Olive and Bee mornings. I prefer water-based internally and oil-based externally.
Then I use Vagifem - I've been using 2x weekly but I'm going to have to increase to every other day now. (If your doctor won't prescribe for more than 2x weekly, know that from Sept you can get it without a prescription from a pharmacy - including online pharmacies...).
And I use Ovestin every other day externally.
By the way, a lot of women also like the Balance Activ pessaries which are hyaluronic acid and non-prescription. I did some googling and there is actually some research which found that hyaluronic acid is as effective as estrogen for VA. So I've got some of those on order to try now ;D
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Who funded that particular Research? The Company who sell Balance Activ?
Cynic? Moi ? ;D
R U going to be the MM official tester for those?
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It was a randomised controlled clinical trial: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26793732/
"Comparison of the Hyaluronic Acid Vaginal Cream and Conjugated Estrogen Used in Treatment of Vaginal Atrophy of Menopause Women: A Randomized Controlled Clinical Trial"
"Results: The results of this study showed that the symptoms of vaginal atrophy compared with the baseline level were relieved significantly in both groups. Dryness, itching, maturation index, PH and composite score of the vaginal symptoms were relieved significantly in both groups (P<0.001). Dyspareunia in Premarin (P<0.05) and hyaluronic acid (P<0.001) decreased compared with pre-treatment. Urinary incontinence only showed improvement in the hyaluronic acid group (P<0.05). Improvement in urinary incontinence, dryness, maturation index (P<0.05) and composite score of vaginal symptoms (P<0.001) in the hyaluronic acid group was better than those in the Premarin group.
Conclusion: According to the results of the present study, hyaluronic acid and conjugated estrogen improved the symptoms of vaginal atrophy. But hyaluronic acid was more effective and this drug is suggested for those who do not want to or cannot take local hormone treatment."
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Tnx. That's clever ;D. 2016 but I couldn't find out who sponsored the Research.
It's a compound that seems to be in everything to put on the skin at present ::) on lots of adverts on TV.
I wonder what the long-term effects are likely to be?
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Ha no I do drink lot's of water each day but only 2 cups of caffeine max daily!
Wow thankyou for the info regarding what you take..I certainly didn't realise that from September the tablets would now be over the counter that's brilliant!! The government really do need to make all this a lot cheaper and easier!! Where do you get the pessaries from as I've never heard of these before!?
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Can I just clarify that you can use vagirux and the VM moisturiser..so the tablet at night and then the moisturiser in the morning!? If I take it in the afternoon aswell will it interfere at all with it working?
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Can I just clarify that you can use vagirux and the VM moisturiser..so the tablet at night and then the moisturiser in the morning!? If I take it in the afternoon aswell will it interfere at all with it working?
You can. :) The moisturiser will not stop the vagirux from working.
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Morning. You can use moisturiser as often as required. Pop the 'vagirux' inside at night and smear your moisturiser of choice around the outer labia. Most of us use VA treatment at night so that it gets a chance to work, rather than gravity draining it out ;-).
Did U sleep?
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Hi ladies. I'm posted under AlfieBo re
Vaginal dryness and burning post meno 9 years. I've been estrolil 0.01% just small bit on finger then tried small amount on applicator with sylk on Thursday night and felt on fire felt awful yesterday came home from work couldn't sit or stand. Any
way tried the cream last night about quarter of applicator not so much irritation with it but didn't use the sylk. What is the vaginal moisturiser everyone seems to talk about. No idea what I'm doing really. I've started on evening primrose to see if that helps. I did try bicarb of soda half teaspoon on water which helped with the sting but goodness it gave be awful diarrhoea. Can't win. :'(
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Hi ladies. I'm posted under AlfieBo re
Vaginal dryness and burning post meno 9 years. I've been estrolil 0.01% just small bit on finger then tried small amount on applicator with sylk on Thursday night and felt on fire felt awful yesterday came home from work couldn't sit or stand. Any
way tried the cream last night about quarter of applicator not so much irritation with it but didn't use the sylk. What is the vaginal moisturiser everyone seems to talk about. No idea what I'm doing really. I've started on evening primrose to see if that helps. I did try bicarb of soda half teaspoon on water which helped with the sting but goodness it gave be awful diarrhoea. Can't win. :'(
I really am sorry to read how much pain you are in. The moisturiser is called Yes VM. You can buy it on Amazon as well as their actual website. I know when first using treatment the skin can be sore as it has to get used to it. When the skin is so raw then applying anything hurts but your pain sounds really bad. How long have you been using estroil for?
I have found Seabuckthorn capsules help with dryness. They are a natural supplement and I buy mine from Holland & Barret. They are taking by mouth and meant to help any dryness.
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Stick to 1 preparation so that you know what is stinging. Try another small amount mid-this morning so that the vaginal walls become less sensitive . On the finger is fine, a little smear around the vagina entrance, working upwards as the days go by. I find KY Jelly helps when I'm dry although some find that aggravates too.
Can you go knicker-less today? so that nothing rubs the area dry?
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Morning. You can use moisturiser as often as required. Pop the 'vagirux' inside at night and smear your moisturiser of choice around the outer labia. Most of us use VA treatment at night so that it gets a chance to work, rather than gravity draining it out ;-).
Did U sleep?
It's just that when I purchased the moisturiser she did say don't use it on the days when you use your tablet so that's why I was a little bit confused. I felt a bit better in the day yesterday but still got the burning come the evening and this morning.. this will be day 3 of the vagirux tablets in a row.. I've just had some moisturiser and then will apply some later on this afternoon and just keep everything crossed!! 🤞🏼🙏🏼☺️
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'she' probably doesn't understand VA.
The idea is to get the vaginal area as moist and supple ASAP = less itching and dryness. Is the 'tablet' a firm thing that attaches to the vaginal wall to ooze the preparation slowly? I find 'ovestin' easy to use: a stiff plastic applicator or on the finger in a measured amount.
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It's just that when I purchased the moisturiser she did say don't use it on the days when you use your tablet so that's why I was a little bit confused.
That is very bad advice, use the moisturiser as often as you need it, its one of the most important ingredients of your regime to get your VA under control.
It took me three months to feel normal again and that's with an every day regime of Vagifem, Ovestin and Sylk moisturiser. Just throw everything at it, don't hold back!
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The tablet yes is a small white tablet put in by an applicator! It was actually from the Yes online shop via the chat link..I'm desperate at this point for the burning to stop or become more bearable so will give anything a go!!! :-\
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It's just that when I purchased the moisturiser she did say don't use it on the days when you use your tablet so that's why I was a little bit confused.
That is very bad advice, use the moisturiser as often as you need it, its one of the most important ingredients of your regime to get your VA under control.
It took me three months to feel normal again and that's with an every day regime of Vagifem, Ovestin and Sylk moisturiser. Just throw everything at it, don't hold back!
Is the Ovestin the estriol cream??
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Yes, I use it locally alongside the Vagifem pessary and moisturiser. I have to use the treatment every day some women get away with twice a week but we are all different.
Takes a while to work and a lot of patience needed.
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Yes, I use it locally alongside the Vagifem pessary and moisturiser. I have to use the treatment every day some women get away with twice a week but we are all different.
Takes a while to work and a lot of patience needed.
Many thanks.. it seems to be a minefield with all the different names of drugs etc 😳
Everything seems to be a waiting game in regards to all of this!
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Yes, I use it locally alongside the Vagifem pessary and moisturiser. I have to use the treatment every day some women get away with twice a week but we are all different.
Takes a while to work and a lot of patience needed.
Many thanks.. it seems to be a minefield with all the different names of drugs etc 😳
Everything seems to be a waiting game in regards to all of this!
It can be over whelming but it is all new to you so give yourself time.
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Can anyone tell me whether alcohol makes VA worse? Was going to have a drink tonight but I certainly don't want to make anything worse!!??
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Hi Ruth. Welcome. Have you had your urine tested for any infection? As we get older there is often no cystitis type pain but the discomfort you mention, especially the urgency, is common.
Taz x :welcomemm:
Sorry Taz I didn't see ur post! Don't know how!?
Previously I have had it tested and it hasn't come back as any UTI I haven't had it done this time as I'm guessing that it's not! 😊🤔 I am seeing a doctor on Monday so maybe she will test me just to be on the safe side 👍🏻
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the sample has to go to a Lab for growing
Avoid alcohol until you get the VA under control ;-)
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Avoid alcohol until you get the VA under control ;-)
I didn't know this was something I had to do? Whoops! It's a bit late now as I continued my nightly wine while getting things under control. Doesn't say that on the vagifem instructions or maybe I skipped over that part ;D
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Avoid alcohol until you get the VA under control ;-)
I didn't know this was something I had to do? Whoops! It's a bit late now as I continued my nightly wine while getting things under control. Doesn't say that on the vagifem instructions or maybe I skipped over that part ;D
You and me both, Taz ;D
JP x
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Hi I've only been using estriol o. O1% since Wednesday. I've stopped the sylk for now. I got some e45 shower gel some more evening primrose oil and holland and b suggested omega 7 so I've started those tonight I put some of the estoril cream around outside of vagina. Put vaseline around applicator tonight. Still stinging but not as much - feeling of needing to wee not as strong today.
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A good sign the treatments are beginning to take affect for you, fingers crossed! :)
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Hi I've only been using estriol o. O1% since Wednesday. I've stopped the sylk for now. I got some e45 shower gel some more evening primrose oil and holland and b suggested omega 7 so I've started those tonight I put some of the estoril cream around outside of vagina. Put vaseline around applicator tonight. Still stinging but not as much - feeling of needing to wee not as strong today.
It is wonderful to hear you are already seeing signs of improvement. :)
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VA is the pits.
Hope you get sorted soon.
Keep with the vagifem/ moisturizer etc. daily ( very important).
Ovestin is good stuff I think.
Sea buckthorn too I’ve heard, can help with dryness.
Anyone used blissel gel or cream ?
:)
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Blissel is just a weaker version of Ovestin - so you probably get through more of it. But Ovestin is hard to get hold of at the moment for some reason...
I'm having a flare up too at the moment. I think because I've reduced my systemic estrogen down to 25mcg patch a week ago - and my vagina doesn't like this (even if the rest of me likes it better) ;D
I get this glue-like discharge, yellow-y. It's gross. I had it before I started any HRT (including local estrogen) back in March. I was tested for thrush and BV twice - negative - and I actually treated for thrush with Caneston twice before those tests anyways. My GP said to do a trial of local estrogen and, if that gets rid of it, we can conclude it was atrophic vaginitis. After 3 weeks on the loading dose of every night, it did pretty much get rid of it. I occasionally had a tiny bit of stringy stuff (the glue like stuff but just a bit!) but that was all - no stinging or burning or large glue blobs. Then I was okay on 2x weekly - until I reduced my systemic estrogen last week....
Now the glue stuff is back again :'( And the stinging and burning in the vulva. I feel like it's the discharge itself which stings, like it's really acidic.
So I'm back to using Vagifem every night and Ovestin 2x a day. I am going to run out of Vagifem because I've only been given it to use 2x weekly, so I'm going to attempt to request it every day.
I am a bit worried about other things this glue like stuff could be, because none of the other vaginitis-es sound very easy to treat and get rid of - or even to diagnose. And I don't want GPs to just throw antibiotics and steroids at me because that could just mess up the microbiome even more. So I am just hoping that smothering estrogen everywhere down there is going to fix it(!). It appeared to, last time...
Has anyone tried an e-string? I am thinking this would be a better way to have permanent estrogen delivered down there rather than Vagifem every night - just put it in for 3 months....
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Blissel is just a weaker version of Ovestin - so you probably get through more of it. But Ovestin is hard to get hold of at the moment for some reason...
I'm having a flare up too at the moment. I think because I've reduced my systemic estrogen down to 25mcg patch a week ago - and my vagina doesn't like this (even if the rest of me likes it better) ;D
I get this glue-like discharge, yellow-y. It's gross. I had it before I started any HRT (including local estrogen) back in March. I was tested for thrush and BV twice - negative - and I actually treated for thrush with Caneston twice before those tests anyways. My GP said to do a trial of local estrogen and, if that gets rid of it, we can conclude it was atrophic vaginitis. After 3 weeks on the loading dose of every night, it did pretty much get rid of it. I occasionally had a tiny bit of stringy stuff (the glue like stuff but just a bit!) but that was all - no stinging or burning or large glue blobs. Then I was okay on 2x weekly - until I reduced my systemic estrogen last week....
Now the glue stuff is back again :'( And the stinging and burning in the vulva. I feel like it's the discharge itself which stings, like it's really acidic.
So I'm back to using Vagifem every night and Ovestin 2x a day. I am going to run out of Vagifem because I've only been given it to use 2x weekly, so I'm going to attempt to request it every day.
I am a bit worried about other things this glue like stuff could be, because none of the other vaginitis-es sound very easy to treat and get rid of - or even to diagnose. And I don't want GPs to just throw antibiotics and steroids at me because that could just mess up the microbiome even more. So I am just hoping that smothering estrogen everywhere down there is going to fix it(!). It appeared to, last time...
Has anyone tried an e-string? I am thinking this would be a better way to have permanent estrogen delivered down there rather than Vagifem every night - just put it in for 3 months....
I am sorry to hear this. I really hope the DR gives you enough vagifem to use it daily. It is frustrating when they are so reluctant to do this and go by the leaflet guide. Would it help to ask to see a gyno about the discharge? It is horrible it causes you pain.
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I’m interested in e-string too but not sure I’ve got VA now as I seem to only get sore when wearing a certain type of sportswear.
I hope you get your GP to prescribe more Vagifem asap.
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Thanks Flossie. If estrogen every night doesn't get rid of it again, I'll for sure ask for a referral. Because I think it would mean wet mounted slides or whatever they're called and someone who can count white blood cells and bacteria under a microscope, which is clearly beyond what my GP can do. I worry there will be a very long waiting list if I need that referral though.
I don't like knowing I am teetering this close to it though. I mean, if just a week of reduced estrogen causes all this to resurface again, my vagina wasn't in tiptop shape on my previous regime of 2x weekly - or it wouldn't have come back this bad, this fast. Which is why I wondered about the e-string. I just like knowing that all its estrogen needs are being taken care of continuously and not just a blob once a day, hoping that that gets around everywhere in there...
I also don't understand why vaginal atrophy so often needs local treatment even when blood estrogen levels are high or good. I mean, earlier in our lives we don't need local treatment when our blood levels are that high. Again, I feel like there is a missing piece of the puzzle here... probably another 50 years before research figures that one out...
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Interesting point Joziel, my specialist and pharmacist said they didn’t think I could have VA due to high estrogen levels. Yet the VA symptoms started 6 days after reducing E dose.
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I feel like when somebody has the symptoms under control it can suddenly flare again. I have been using VA treatment since November and never have a day I feel symptom free. It seems even the menopause specialists may not fully understand it.
I am interested in the estring too. I would like to hear of other peoples experience on it.
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Oh sorry to hear that joziel, sounds like a right carry on.
Definitely request vagifem daily now. This x 2 weekly is a load of old tosh. I think few women can get away with it that infrequently. I asked my specialist to ask the doc to prescribe daily vagifem and he did thankfully. I won’t bother with the blissel then and stick to ovestin and vagifem.
I know what you mean about reducing the systemic dose and bang the vagina and bladder go awol :(. I’m the same. If it wasn’t for the damm VA, I would probably just use a 50 patch. But no, that isn’t good enough and I’m weeing for England again. 1mg sandrena no good either and gives me period pain and spotting ( or is the the coil still, who knows!)
What I’m struggling with is, if the bladder and vagina require a decent systemic dose of HRT; what happens if the rest of the body doesn’t agree and you get period pain and cramps etc..
Such a bloody minefield ???
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I think we have to meet the bladder and vagina needs with local estrogen of some description. And work on the other symptoms separately.
I don't understand why this is, if our blood estrogen levels are okay. That's why I think there is some other process at work. I could understand it if someone had had symptoms for years and things had gone too far to be recovered again just by boosting estrogen, but when we act quickly as soon as we see it happening, why can the blood estrogen levels not sustain things again (like they have done earlier in life)... ???
How long as the coil been in Nas? I think you can assume any spotting is due to the coil until you are at 6 months. After 6 months, I'd be inclined to think it's the estrogen dose...
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Really feel for you Nas, I know the weeing for England routine well! Every time I reduce estrogen I’m up 3 times a night, it takes about 2 weeks of being back on original dose to get undisturbed sleep. Can’t answer your Q about body not being happy as thankfully I’m good on full whack. . . So far!
How’s the coil trial going?
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I don’t get the whole VA if Oestrogen levels are decent, to be honest.
I mean it was my first symptom, even before anxiety and my Oestrogen levels were 780. Then, when they dropped right off a cliff, a year after my last period, to 88, I had no atrophy at all. In fact, VA only became problematic this year really. As you say joziel, treat that symptoms as they occur I guess.
The coil is going okay, other than the spotting. It’s a nuisance more than anything. Not quite 3 months yet, but I’m impatient ;D
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As oestrogen levels drop as we age, the body may become dry: inside and out; skin, vagina, anus, scalp, inbetweet the toes - deep in the ears, eyes, nostrils ........ appropriate treatment should ease VA symptoms i.e. ovestin via an applicator or 'vagifem' pessary. Some find that extra moisturiser is necessary. Although VA treatment is for a loading period of 2-3 weeks, some ladies require using it every night for many years. To keep the vaginal walls moist and supple so that they don't become itchy = aggravating the bladder.
It took a while, now I can recognise when symptoms are niggling in that my belly feels 'full', below the button area. I immediately put 'ovestin' up in the morning or afternoon, take 2 'nurofen' tablets to stop the nip when the urine flow shuts off; as well as another 'ovestin' at night for at least 5/6 nights.
??? using VA treatment nightly for 5-6 months might give better relief ???
Some require replacement therapy to help. My Gynae would never do hormonal blood tests but treated on symptoms, as does my GP. I think that many get hung up on 'levels' - I've never required hormonal blood tests so don't know how my oestrogen levels might be. 4 me over the last 6 years it's treating my vagina as symptoms niggle which keeps the area comfortable.
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So ultra sensitive down there that VA needs to be treated separately from other HRT treatments, in my unqualified opinion.
I am an every day user and every time I think I can reduce my dose I get a little twinge down below as if its saying to me, don't you dare.
One day perhaps I can reduce the dose but definitely not yet, and that's after nearly a year of treatment.
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So ultra sensitive down there that VA needs to be treated separately from other HRT treatments, in my unqualified opinion.
I am an every day user and every time I think I can reduce my dose I get a little twinge down below as if its saying to me, don't you dare.
One day perhaps I can reduce the dose but definitely not yet, and that's after nearly a year of treatment.
I agree with you. It does seem it needs to be treated separately. For me, VA is the worst menopause symptom I have.
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I am interested in the estring too. I would like to hear of other peoples experience on it.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24411.msg373949.html#msg373949
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I am interested in the estring too. I would like to hear of other peoples experience on it.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24411.msg373949.html#msg373949
Thank you Minusminnie :)
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Gawd, I now think the entrance to my vagina looks white. I thought it was white discharge when I saw it - but I blobbed some toilet paper there to try to take it away and realised it was the vagina itself and not discharge sitting on it. I don't know if it's thrush, if that makes the actual vagina look coated white..?? arrrrgggggg... maybe I have both thrush and VA. I am worried about lichen planus and LS.
I'm going to have to go get another exam and have someone look at it again. The thing is, I thought it looked like this last time too, before my exam, but the GP said all was okay when she took a look. And I tested negative for thrush twice earlier this year, with the same symptoms I have now. I'm going to try to see a different, more experienced GP. I don't want to just keep treating for thrush if it's not thrush.
I am so fed up of life being about my vagina :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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joziel, the pallor is probably just the VA. Mine presented like that. Have you got any Ovestin to massage in? I can't remember what you are using. Vagifem is fine for the inside, but doesn't always do much for the labia. (This according to my vulva dermatologist.) As you probably know, many folk need decent levels of both systemic and local E to keep on top of VA. My regime now is 5 Vagifem a week, and Ovestin externally every other night. It used to be everything every night, plus moisturiser, although I no longer need the latter.
JP x
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Oh that's a bit reassuring, that VA can look like that too....
I do have Ovestin and I'm using it morning and night at the moment. I'd use it even more but I'm afraid of burning through it too fast and not being able to get more.
I'm using Vagifem every night. I might go through that too fast, but I can get my Newson GP to send me more if I pay for it. (I know they will be happy for me to have it every day, even if other GPs aren't.)
I've only been on this regime for about 24-48hrs though, that's when this all flared up. Before that I was doing 2x weekly Vagifem and Ovestin and using YES OB every morning. I first tried using YES VM internally morning and evening instead of increasing Vagifem (to try to save the Vagifem) but that definitely doesn't seem to be helping, there is just more stuff coming out of me ;D
I'm getting more of the glue like sticky discharge than before now and it does look a bit thrush-like, although also has this glue like quality to it. I have fluconazole in the cupboard but I'm a bit reluctant to take it considering I did 2 rounds of Caneston last year and have been negative for thrush on 2 swabs earlier this year. I don't want to upset things even more. I hope that's the right decision...
I'm not going to go back to the GP I saw last time who said all this stuff I know is wrong about HRT. She didn't even want me to have both Ovestin and Vagifem at the same time and had a lot of misinformation about HRT and I just didn't like her attitude. But it's a big practice and there are 3 other female GPs there with the DRCOG qualification who take an interest in gynae, so I'll just pick one of those and make a double appointment....
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Good plan joziel. I don't see how 2 Vagifem a week is enough for anyone when you think that they used to contain 25 mcg estradiol, rather than the 10 mcg we get now, but that's one of life's little mysteries. Maybe you would like the Estring once things get settled. I hope the glue discharge resolves in time, it's one symptom I haven't had so can't comment. It all seems to take an age to get the routine right with VA, but you do get there eventually.
It has always seemed to me that the fewer different products you use (not counting the oestrogen ones) the better. You are right in not wanting any more unnecessary candida treatments.
Incidentally, the VA support group on FB is worth joining, because whatever symptoms you've got, someone else there will have had them! The admins are good and knowledgeable, and no-one is allowed to get, erm, unpleasant with anyone else. Good manners prevail there. Same on Diane Danzebrink's Menopause Support FB group. However, I digress....😊.
JP x
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Thanks JP. I’m in the VA FB group but it doesn’t have an anonymous post setting and it’s not the sort of thing I want to ask about publicly ;D for fear someone I know is in the group. Or joins the group later and finds my posts. I have been using the search box in it a lot - not many people have this discharge with VA, it seems to be mostly a watery discharge people talk about.
This kind of thing seems mostly associated with DIV - which tends to mean steroid foams and antibiotic creams up there and even then just controlling symptoms when there are flare ups rather than totally fixing it. I could have more than one thing going on, although as my husband points out it’s a bit of a coincidence for all this to happen one week after I lowered my patch to 25… 🤔 if it’s not VA.
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I do hope it isn't anything more sinister than bog standard VA. I think Mr joziel has a good point, though ;). Any chance of consulting a vulva dermatologist if it doesn't clear up in a few weeks?
I wish you the very best of luck with it, whatever is happening ❤.
JP x
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Agree with JP, In that a dermatologist who specialises in all things vagina/vulva related, might be the way forward if things don’t improve.
Definitely coincidental that it’s occurred after lowering the patch dose.
Each time I do that, problems arise within days.
What’s the YES OB like? I’ve just ordered some. I’ve got the YES moisturiser, but like with you, it just pours out! ???
We are slaves to our vagina and bladder! :o
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I live somewhere pretty isolated so it’s not going to be easy to see a vulvo dermatologist. If they do video consults and can post me swabs to do that might work… otherwise I’d have to travel to London which would be expensive.
I like the YES OB but I haven’t used it internally. Externally it’s good. The one prob is that some bottles of it when it cools it can block the hole in the bottle. So I have to run it under the hot tap to get the oil to liquefy again. Also sometimes find it has a grainy texture which is also due to it cooling and you can fix that by standing it in a glass of hot water.
For those reasons I prefer the Olive and Bee - but that is more expensive for a smaller tube 😂
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I've made a double appointment for this Weds with a new doctor at this practice. :'(
I am still on my quest to find a good female GP for gynae stuff. I think this will be the 8th different doctor I've seen since Sept.... :-\
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Regarding Yes OB the graininess also disappears if you rub it between your fingers. Personally I didn't like OB, it seemed to be irritating me even more when I used it externally. I prefer coconut oil on the outside, but I've only been at this lark for about 6 weeks.
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I should add, at the time I was just irritated 24/7 so it might be that the OB is fine for me. I will try it again at some point to see.
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I might try some coconut oil then.
I thought I was okay on the outside, until the last couple of days, when I’ve started feeling a bit sore again.
Oh well, got to try these things.... :)
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I know the problem, first had problems couple years ago, I am 69.
During the pandemic only able to have phone consultations with nurse who tried me on firstly the gel then ovestin cream, next I tried vagirux. Unfortunately I believe all these gave me thrush so I wasn't any better off.
Nurse suggested estraderm patches 50 plus intrarosa pessaries each night
I didn't think the patches did a lot for me but after a while with the pessaries I seemed a lot better.
However now the problem is I cannot get any intrarosa as there seems to be a shortage. Has anyone else had this problem or know where they are available.?
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Hello - I can't help with Intrarosa. I don't know anyone else using that one, is it any good? Most people seem to use Vagifem or similar.
After 3-4 days of nightly Vagifem and Ovestin 2x daily externally, I seem not to be getting the discharge now. ??? I think I will still keep the appointment on Weds and get the doctor to take a look....
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However now the problem is I cannot get any intrarosa as there seems to be a shortage. Has anyone else had this problem or know where they are available.?
If you scroll down to Theramax products it says available https://thebms.org.uk/news/british-menopause-society-update-on-hrt-supply/
Have you tried all of your local pharmacies?
Taz x
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Just wondering about getting some olive and bee..I do use yes VA moisturiser so would this be the same thing? Or should I continue with the VA?
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The VM is water based. Yes OB is oil based - and Olive and Bee is also oil-based (olive oil and beeswax are the only 2 ingredients so it's very natural).
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The VM is water based. Yes OB is oil based - and Olive and Bee is also oil-based (olive oil and beeswax are the only 2 ingredients so it's very natural).
Could I use both or is there no point,I'm guessing they do the same thing!? I'm just wondering how long I should give the VA?
I am going abroad on Saturday and also wondering about swimming in the sea and pool.. will this agrivate my atrophy?
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You can for sure use both, in fact that's what I think YES recommend. I use YES VM internally and on pessaries for lube. I prefer oil based products externally because they tend to stay there much longer. Anything water based is going to get absorbed by your underwear and not really going to last long. Whereas the oil based stuff just provides longer lasting comfort in my opinion. It would probably also be better if you were going swimming - as less likely to get washed off compared to water based products.
I can't answer the question about swimming with VA as I haven't tried it. I'd say - use an oil based moisturiser before and after when you get back. It might depend on how severe and how under control your VA is...
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Cool I will get some and try.. can you put both inside you? Or is it better to use 1 inside? Ha I'm getting desperate as you can tell as I'm going away soon and don't want this to spoil it and feel rubbish like I do now!
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You can put both inside you. YES make little individual applicators pre-filled with YES OB. (And others with YES VM.) Or you can buy the larger separate bottle and use your own applicators from Amazon, which often works out cheaper.
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Thanks Flossie. If estrogen every night doesn't get rid of it again, I'll for sure ask for a referral. Because I think it would mean wet mounted slides or whatever they're called and someone who can count white blood cells and bacteria under a microscope, which is clearly beyond what my GP can do. I worry there will be a very long waiting list if I need that referral though.
I don't like knowing I am teetering this close to it though. I mean, if just a week of reduced estrogen causes all this to resurface again, my vagina wasn't in tiptop shape on my previous regime of 2x weekly - or it wouldn't have come back this bad, this fast. Which is why I wondered about the e-string. I just like knowing that all its estrogen needs are being taken care of continuously and not just a blob once a day, hoping that that gets around everywhere in there...
I also don't understand why vaginal atrophy so often needs local treatment even when blood estrogen levels are high or good. I mean, earlier in our lives we don't need local treatment when our blood levels are that high. Again, I feel like there is a missing piece of the puzzle here... probably another 50 years before research figures that one out...
Hi, I haven't read everything on this post, but just to say your local sexual health clinic can do wet mount slides and look for cytolitic vaginitis, over growth of lactobacilli ( they will be 10 x length causing thrush like symptoms.)
These 2 are often mistaken for thrush and that treatment makes it worse.
Sometimes these acidic conditions can be made worse by local estrogen used inside and you get thrush like symptoms. You can always just put a blob on your finger and put it round the entrance as it were .
The outside vulva if inflamed/ dermatitis can be settled with emuvate for 3 weeks then stop.
Wash with hydromol and the less the better - sticking loads on can irritate.
Estriol 0.01% ( the weaker one ) use pea size amount on outside once a day , until soreness lessens.
just a few quick ideas. I do hope it improves for you soon.
PMXX
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Cool I will get some and try.. can you put both inside you? Or is it better to use 1 inside? Ha I'm getting desperate as you can tell as I'm going away soon and don't want this to spoil it and feel rubbish like I do now!
The olive and bee sorry I meant,can that go inside? I've just purchased some 🤞🏼🤞🏼
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pepperminty, that's great info. Yes, cytolytic vaginitis is one of the things I have in my mind. Especially as sometimes what comes out can smell very acidic. Not a strong or bad smell, it just smells a bit like I've vinegar in my knickers ;D I've no idea if the sexual health clinic here offer that kind of thing - I've been there for smears in the past as they are much better at doing them than doctors ;D
But so far increasing local estrogen has helped and I haven't had any discharge today (yet) and my vulva is comfortable with Ovestin 3x daily.
I think it's probably a good idea I still keep the appointment on Wednesday (what do you think???).... Just because at my last exam in March, I didn't really rate the GP very much (she didn't have a DRCOG qual and seemed a bit clueless about HRT!) and I was also bleeding lightly and she said she couldn't see all my vagina as a result. And I wanted to query this paleness I can see.
So even if the discharge stops now, I should probably still keep the appointment and get checked out???
I've had some really bad experiences getting pelvic exams, where doctors have dropped gloves on the floor, picked them up and then used the same glove to apply lube to the speculum. And not washed their hands. Or, for a smear, one doctor ran her unwashed fingers along the bristles of the sample brush they use(!!) absent-mindedly whilst she spoke to me. I wrote anonymous letters of complaint after both of these incidents and they were both at the practice I've now left. (Two different doctors!) But it's made me stressed now about whether doctors are going to be hygienic when I go for pelvic exams and what to do if something like this happens, because it creates a really horrible atmosphere if you say something. Like, er 'please could you wash your hands?' whilst you're lying on the bed, at the ready ;D I'm still not really sure what to say/do either to stop it happening again or if it does happen... Both times i just let the exam go ahead but I was left feeling anxious and violated really :'(
But I should probably still get it checked out... and maybe try to figure out a way to say what's happened to me before, without sounding psychotic.
Ruth, I'm not sure if the Olive and Bee can be used internally. I'd maybe look at their website and see - I haven't used it that way.
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pepperminty, that's great info. Yes, cytolytic vaginitis is one of the things I have in my mind. Especially as sometimes what comes out can smell very acidic. Not a strong or bad smell, it just smells a bit like I've vinegar in my knickers ;D I've no idea if the sexual health clinic here offer that kind of thing - I've been there for smears in the past as they are much better at doing them than doctors ;D
But so far increasing local estrogen has helped and I haven't had any discharge today (yet) and my vulva is comfortable with Ovestin 3x daily.
I think it's probably a good idea I still keep the appointment on Wednesday (what do you think???).... Just because at my last exam in March, I didn't really rate the GP very much (she didn't have a DRCOG qual and seemed a bit clueless about HRT!) and I was also bleeding lightly and she said she couldn't see all my vagina as a result. And I wanted to query this paleness I can see.
So even if the discharge stops now, I should probably still keep the appointment and get checked out???
I've had some really bad experiences getting pelvic exams, where doctors have dropped gloves on the floor, picked them up and then used the same glove to apply lube to the speculum. And not washed their hands. Or, for a smear, one doctor ran her unwashed fingers along the bristles of the sample brush they use(!!) absent-mindedly whilst she spoke to me. I wrote anonymous letters of complaint after both of these incidents and they were both at the practice I've now left. (Two different doctors!) But it's made me stressed now about whether doctors are going to be hygienic when I go for pelvic exams and what to do if something like this happens, because it creates a really horrible atmosphere if you say something. Like, er 'please could you wash your hands?' whilst you're lying on the bed, at the ready ;D I'm still not really sure what to say/do either to stop it happening again or if it does happen... Both times i just let the exam go ahead but I was left feeling anxious and violated really :'(
But I should probably still get it checked out... and maybe try to figure out a way to say what's happened to me before, without sounding psychotic.
Ruth, I'm not sure if the Olive and Bee can be used internally. I'd maybe look at their website and see - I haven't used it that way.
Hi, if you need reassurance go. the sexual health clinics , do all sorts and have microscopy available on site , so you do not have the wait for the results. Gp's are not a great experience these days.
I would still so to the sexual health clinic if you are not better as they are usually very good.
Sounds like you have had bad experiences and lets hope the new GP's are better. You could say that you had a bad experience with the new GP and that you are wary and they may put your mind at rest. it is a very vulnerable position to be in -
PMxx
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Thanks. I think I'll go to this GP as I do need to vet and find another GP anyways ::) I'll see what comes from it.
Having said the discharge had stopped, I did have some slight small amount of it this evening. So best go, I think. I don't know if I maybe have thrush as well as VA now. I just hope it's nothing complicated which is going to involve putting 65000 different products up there and upsetting things even more. I mean, I was going to try the baking soda idea in a sitz bath or even a douche for cytolitic vaginitis - but I could make things even worse if it's not that and I change the pH.... :-\
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Put vaseline around applicator tonight.
Just posting you this link as mentioned in the What Not To Do is to put petroleum jelly inside your vagina. The link is for Balance Activ which i was looking up to possibly use again myself but saw this and thought of your post.
https://www.balanceactiv.com/vaginal-dryness/
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Ruth yes Olive and Bee can be use internally. It’s sold as a sex lube, do definitely can be use internally. As well as a moisturiser externally.
I was using my Olive and Bee externally and on my dildo, until I read the box the dildo came in and it said water base lube only :o
But I did find it great for the atrophy using internally, so it might by a new one.
Now on the subject off dildo, it really helps with the atrophy.
My husband had a big operation so no sex for ten weeks, my atrophy went backwards. So I went online and bought a couple sex toys. It has bought my husband back to my bed. I’m using my husband or sex toys every third day for about ten minutes. As well as using Vagifem internally and Ovestin externally two nights on one night off. Moisturisers Yes VM one or two times a day and Olive and Bee at night.
It’s the most normal I’ve been in four years.
It does take a while to find what works for you :)
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Ruth yes Olive and Bee can be use internally. It’s sold as a sex lube, do definitely can be use internally. As well as a moisturiser externally.
I was using my Olive and Bee externally and on my dildo, until I read the box the dildo came in and it said water base lube only :o
But I did find it great for the atrophy using internally, so it might by a new one.
Now on the subject off dildo, it really helps with the atrophy.
My husband had a big operation so no sex for ten weeks, my atrophy went backwards. So I went online and bought a couple sex toys. It has bought my husband back to my bed. I’m using my husband or sex toys every third day for about ten minutes. As well as using Vagifem internally and Ovestin externally two nights on one night off. Moisturisers Yes VM one or two times a day and Olive and Bee at night.
It’s the most normal I’ve been in four years.
It does take a while to find what works for you :)
Thankyou,I think I'm getting desperate so will try anything for a bit of relief,I have ordered some so will give it a go internally in the evening, I'm guessing you can mix it so yes moisturiser in the morning and maybe the olive and bee in the evening? I'm just worried about the vagirux not sticking and working with all the moisturiser.. the lady on the website for YES said to use the moisturiser the days that I don't use the vagifem but im using it everyday.
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I use the vagifem at night and use moisturiser in the morning and sometimes the afternoon too. You can choose which moisturisers you want, you needn't stick to just the same one all the time.
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Ruth Emery: I think you are trying too many preparations at the same time. Stick with the VA treatment: as the vaginal walls become moister the product should stick better. Also add 'yes' or another moistoriser morning and evening. That way you can decide which works . Putting too many products around a very sensitive area may cause more problems.
VA isn't solved over night. It may take 3-4 weeks B4 the vagina begins to feel more comfortable. MayB get a copy of "Me and My Menopause Vagina", available on Amazon. Written by a Member of the Forum.
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Ruth Emery: I think you are trying too many preparations at the same time. Stick with the VA treatment: as the vaginal walls become moister the product should stick better. Also add 'yes' or another moistoriser morning and evening. That way you can decide which works . Putting too many products around a very sensitive area may cause more problems.
VA isn't solved over night. It may take 3-4 weeks B4 the vagina begins to feel more comfortable. MayB get a copy of "Me and My Menopause Vagina", available on Amazon. Written by a Member of the Forum.
Yes you could be right 😳 although at the moment I'm just using vagifem at night and the yes and moisturiser in the day but read on here on another post last year someone asking the same question about can you use vagifem and the yes moisturiser or does it stop it working so I think that is what I'm panicking about.. I might use a bit of the olive and Bee on the applicator to put my vagifem in at night would that be ok or is that still too many preparations..I think because all this is new and we're desperate for it to work you just use as much as you can of anything don't you!! 😊
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Ruth you can definitely use a small amount of moisturiser on the applicator as lube but I wouldn't put a full dose of moisturiser up there at the same time as the Vagifem, if that helps. I don't think you need to allow an entire day between them, just a few hours. As long as you are not putting everything in there at once, there's no problem with using different things if they work for you. Over time you will learn what you like more and get more stream-lined and use fewer products but probably understandable to try a few to start with.
Lyncola, I totally agree with you about the dildo. By the way, you can use a condom on it if you want to use your Olive and Bee when you're using it. I've got some 'no lube included' German condoms so you can use whatever you want with them.
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Ruth you can definitely use a small amount of moisturiser on the applicator as lube but I wouldn't put a full dose of moisturiser up there at the same time as the Vagifem, if that helps. I don't think you need to allow an entire day between them, just a few hours. As long as you are not putting everything in there at once, there's no problem with using different things if they work for you. Over time you will learn what you like more and get more stream-lined and use fewer products but probably understandable to try a few to start with.
Lyncola, I totally agree with you about the dildo. By the way, you can use a condom on it if you want to use your Olive and Bee when you're using it. I've got some 'no lube included' German condoms so you can use whatever you want with them.
Thankyou ☺️ I definitely have always left it a few hours before using the vagifem.. what are the thoughts about using 2 one night? Would that be ok?
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Ruth you can definitely use a small amount of moisturiser on the applicator as lube but I wouldn't put a full dose of moisturiser up there at the same time as the Vagifem, if that helps. I don't think you need to allow an entire day between them, just a few hours. As long as you are not putting everything in there at once, there's no problem with using different things if they work for you. Over time you will learn what you like more and get more stream-lined and use fewer products but probably understandable to try a few to start with.
Lyncola, I totally agree with you about the dildo. By the way, you can use a condom on it if you want to use your Olive and Bee when you're using it. I've got some 'no lube included' German condoms so you can use whatever you want with them.
Thankyou ☺️ I definitely have always left it a few hours before using the vagifem.. what are the thoughts about using 2 one night? Would that be ok?
I would use one vagifem in the morning and another at night. That way it will have time to dissolve.
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Vagifem is a pessary :-\ not delivered by an applicator ?
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Vagifem is a pessary :-\ not delivered by an applicator ?
You can use an applicator to insert it. When I used vaigfem they were preloaded in applicators.
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Aaaahhh - 1 learns something every day 1 does. The end of the finger would do once it goes in easily?
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Aaaahhh - 1 learns something every day 1 does. The end of the finger would do once it goes in easily?
I think it depends on the person. I was never able to insert the pessary with a finger myself. I had to use the applicator as it is thinner then my finger and add sylk to help it glide.
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:thankyou: we're a mine of info. 8)
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:thankyou: we're a mine of info. 8)
You are most welcome. :)
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Ruth you can definitely use a small amount of moisturiser on the applicator as lube but I wouldn't put a full dose of moisturiser up there at the same time as the Vagifem, if that helps. I don't think you need to allow an entire day between them, just a few hours. As long as you are not putting everything in there at once, there's no problem with using different things if they work for you. Over time you will learn what you like more and get more stream-lined and use fewer products but probably understandable to try a few to start with.
Lyncola, I totally agree with you about the dildo. By the way, you can use a condom on it if you want to use your Olive and Bee when you're using it. I've got some 'no lube included' German condoms so you can use whatever you want with them.
Thankyou ☺️ I definitely have always left it a few hours before using the vagifem.. what are the thoughts about using 2 one night? Would that be ok?
I would use one vagifem in the morning and another at night. That way it will have time to dissolve.
I actually meant vagirux these are what I am on..small white tablet put in by applicator.. could I take one morning and evening do you think?
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They are the same thing aren't they really?
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Yes they are. I think it is just the brand name that is different.
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Ruth, I think for a week or two you could put one in morning and night. I'm not sure about continuing that long-term (and your GP may not prescribe you enough to do that with) but short-term it should be fine. Vagirux and Vagifem are the same thing, just one comes in an applicator and the other doesn't.
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I think I will just until it's under control ☺️ I have enough for the moment,I wonder if I should take one now then one tonight?
Thankyou
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I think I will just until it's under control ☺️ I have enough for the moment,I wonder if I should take one now then one tonight?
Thankyou
I would. At least that way you can get some relief right now. I hope it eases your pain.
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I think I will just until it's under control ☺️ I have enough for the moment,I wonder if I should take one now then one tonight?
Thankyou
I would. At least that way you can get some relief right now. I hope it eases your pain.
Thankyou ☺️ I will 👍🏻