Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: CLKD on November 24, 2020, 07:00:29 PM
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Up to three households can meet up during a five-day Christmas period of 23-27 December, leaders of the four UK nations have agreed.
The leaders said 2020 "cannot be a normal Christmas" but family and friends will be able to see each other in a "limited and cautious" way.
People can mix indoors in homes, places of worship and in outdoor spaces.
But existing rules on hospitality and venues will remain and the bubbles people form must be "exclusive".
This means people cannot get together with those from more than two other households and, once a bubble is formed, it must not be changed or be extended further.
How large is a 'household'? In many communities this could be over 50 people meeting ........ also ? 5 ? days :-\: 2 of which will be travelling.
What I would suggest is that each family member takes an item of food or drink to avoid too much time spent in the kitchen. Low key, healthy food and time together. It won't make any difference 2 our arrangements.
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With most things opening up soon, I'm dreading the weeks after Xmas especially as now three households CAN mix. Like CLKD said, there's a lot of people in some households.
The infection rate is supposedly come down now, so surly it'll rise again after Xmas? 🤷♀️
It's just so sad. I totally understand how people are thinking, we've all had a bad year, some more than others, especially those who've lost loved ones to the covid, and now it's Xmas round the corner, they all want a good time, but people should think hard first and weigh everything up before they mix with lots of people.
Stay safe everyone. xx
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At the most we had 14-17 round Grandma's table at C.mas in the 1950s/60s. That was 3 sons/wives, cousins, grandparents ......... 3 dogs ;D. I HATED it ::)
We can't travel to see any one as there is no where to stay ......... ;)
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We will have breakfast. Go for a long walk, weather allowing. Cook the C.mas pud for lunch. Main meal at tea-time as usual. Then slum in front of the TV. As usual ;D
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Bah humbug here. I don't see the point in lockdown now, letting it spread over Xmas and inevitably another lockdown jan/Feb, more lives lost, and more business bankruptcies and lost jobs. Of course it's different for anyone who thinks it may be their last one and no one should be alone but we can see the end of it now with the vaccine so surely just for this one Xmas we could stick to own households (or bubble for anyone alone). We're in a bubble with MIL who lives alone, I won't see anyone else as I don't want to be responsible for her death.
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Christmas conundrum here.
In theory We could do what we normally do, all 12 have dinner together. 3 households but the only one with room is me ( at a push) and I don’t fancy cooking for 12. We could go to my daughters but that will also be cramped. My sisters ex partner comes to dinner snd he is adamant he’s had it so is a bit blasé and stresses me out so with all of us crammed around a table is go8ng to be stressful. Plus he does have a chronic cough ( I do think he did have it in Jan , he’d been work8ng in China 🤦🏻♀️), so with him coughing all the time , can you imagine.
Plus I can’t eat like everyone else so I hate formal meals!!
No idea what we will do if I’m honest 🙁
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It's not fair actually: Dwivali was cancelled and other religions are not able to celebrate together .............
groundhog - why make more stress 4 yourself? By Easter we will know whether we are safer so why not wait?
The World is more connected than ever B4 though I can see ZOOM dropping out if everyone logs on at the same time ::)
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I just dont get why when have come so far and sacrificed so much time that we could actually risk being back to square one come Feb/March. It's like groundhog day! We are all suffering, we have given up well earned summer holidays, other religions have had to forfeit their religious times. I feel it extremely selfish that people would risk everything (and everybody) for what has now become for most, simply a chance to eat, drink and be merry. I personally think we should stick this out, wait to see what happens with vaccines and put our efforts into making 2021 a better year and plan for Christmas 2021 instead. It's fine and well saying that for some of the elderly it may be their last Christmas, but we could really say that about anyone, we dont know what's round the corner. It appears as a nation we are so much weaker than our European counterparts. Their lockdowns and rules from the start have been much stricter. Pubs, etc in France are now closed until the end of January and Spain is on major alert until May 2021, and even the scientists here seem to think meeting up for 5 days is a mistake. We just all seem to fold and buckle at the sight of tinsel and the sound of a Christmas tune! I've now lost faith in all of the four nations leaders. Now, I sound like a real Bah Humbug, when in fact I am the complete opposite. I love Christmas, but I do think this is all too much too soon. In fact I find it quite frightening.
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I believe it's due to the fact that people will travel and meet. The UK doesn't have the Police capacity to arrest or stop each vehicle that is traveling. We rarely see a Police car on the road when out and about on our twice weekly shopping trip to the town 5 miles away. Last week the Police were sitting in the supermarket car park having a coffee in their riot van. ::)
The roads will be chaos. And why should public transport be expected to run ........... a few drinks from people not wearing masks !?!? 'do as you would be done by' .......... easy 4 me to say as I haven't anyone to visit, Mum refuses to engage with us and there's no where to stay in her area but really ............ 25th if a fixed date which may/not be correct anyway.
Why not combine successful vaccination programme with a knees up ;-) :ola:
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I was rather hoping we'd be banned from meeting up. ;D
There are seven of us altogether living in five different households usually. My youngest son has come back to live here, with me and my partner, for this second lockdown as he found the last one, working from his HMO house, really difficult. He now counts as our household so as long as he doesn't go home between now and Christmas(!) that's how it will stay. My ex husband (we're really great friends) lives just up the road and lives alone so he has bubbled with us some time ago so he also counts as "our household". Middle son lives on his own and eldest son lives with his wife. In effect we can all meet up as we are three households but I still consider it risky. My middle son still goes into work a couple of days a week travelling by train. He is an eternal optimist as is my ex husband.
Usually we host Christmas between us. Some of the family stay here and the overflow stay with my ex husband. They arrive on Christmas Eve and usually stay till the day after Boxing Day. We cook the Christmas meal between us and have Christmas Day at my house and Boxing Day is hosted by him at his house. We sort of go between both houses during the time they are here. I've been trying to get them to see that if we do meet up it wont be quite the same but I think I'm seen as the doom monger! Reading the suggestions on how to keep safe fills me with dread! Windows open. The risk from hard surfaces. Only one person preparing, cooking and serving food (exhausted already lol). Separate towel for everyone in cloakrooms, bathrooms, kitchen.
I'll have to do some serious thinking I reckon. Most of my friends are not seeing any family but are hoping to have a big family celebration when things are safer.
Taz x :-\
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time to begin new traditions ;-)
It's going to be chilly in the dentist's chair over the Winter ;D. It has to be all windows to get a flow through of air. Apparently ::). Time to get out the :bbq: instead?
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One cannot bubble with lots of groups. It's an excuse to not obey what has been suggested!
The bubble has always been: pick 5 people that you would like to meet on a regular basis and stick to it. That 5 should be it - no mixing with others to form another bubble. If 1 is in regular work or travelling on the underground, it stands to my reason that 1 doesn't form bubbles anyway!!
C-19 is spread by coughing, singing, spitting whilst talking - hence the need for masks. Add to that :drunk: and people are going to forget to keep the mask on or socially distance.
Our dental surgeries are under such strict restrictions that I can't see why the public don't realise that we should be keeping to rules too.
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They are incorrect but don't want to know. I don't know many people that I would want to be close too ;-)
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I saw on the news how many village halls may well close for ever due to lack of attention, fund raising and no one allowed to use them :'(
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Yes indeed Franny. My arms ached to hug people in early lockdown. Always hug my friends. Roll on vaccine! Have a virtual (( hug))
I am not normally a big hugger but I have had the urge to do so quite a few times since lockdown started.
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One cannot bubble with lots of groups. It's an excuse to not obey what has been suggested!
The bubble has always been: pick 5 people that you would like to meet on a regular basis and stick to it. That 5 should be it - no mixing with others to form another bubble. If 1 is in regular work or travelling on the underground, it stands to my reason that 1 doesn't form bubbles anyway!!
The bubble is something that can be made by a person living on their own with one other household. It doesn't matter whether they are travelling to work or not they just have to be living on their own. There is no mention of five other people. Are you thinking of the rule of 6? This is different to a bubble. You can meet with up to six people at a time but they can be a different six people every time. Also if you are living in an HMO house as a single person you are not allowed to make a bubble with another household.
Taz x :-\
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:thankyou: clear as mud then ;D - thank goodness we don't have to mix ::)
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I'd soon confuse all of you! 🤪. 🤣
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We are not risking it, we usually gather together with my father, my 2 children, their spouses and my grandson, but not this year. It will be the first time in 39 years I haven’t spent it with my kids.
I honestly feel the sacrifice we have all made is too important to risk one of the above becoming ill, or worse, for the sake of a meal albeit a special one.
I cannot understand why it’s being allowed. Lots of scientists and doctors unhappy with decision
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Because people were going to travel to meet up anyway. We don't have the Police force to prevent it. Hopefully the trains/buses won't run! but the roads will be chockaa. Hopefully no RTAs which will clog up already busy hospitals.
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I think the same mentality is being brought into play as you can see on a motorway in poor driving conditions. If the signs restricting speed, or notifying you of fog or heavy rain aren't lit up then certain drivers tend to just plough on regardless because they haven't been told not to. This is the same - if we had been told not to meet up then the majority of people would consider that this is something they should take into account and follow the guidelines but because we are told that for five days we can suddenly socialise again then they blindly think that this must mean the virus has gone on holiday and it is safe to do so. I've spoken to a number of friends over what they are going to do and a few of them are believing that they can meet up - as long as only three households - but forget about the other risks i.e. social distancing, no hugging, separate towels etc etc. I just don't understand it.
Taz x
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This year our Christmas will be just the same as always. Five people from two households.
My eldest son and his partner will probably stay over on Christmas night, as usual.
We are not a huggy family so no problem there. As for everything else, no change.
Ordered my turkey today.
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Poor turkey ;D
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Nicola Sturgon made it clear here in Scotland yesterday that although the 'loosening of restrictions' has been made, you should only meet up if you really NEED to. She went on to say that if a household can stay as one household at Christmas then that it what we should do. I got the impression that what she really wanted to say was 'Please dont meet up and ruin what we have achieved while a vaccine is just round the corner'. Obviously she cant say that, and is relying on people using common sense. We know how that's going then! The Chief Medical Officer went on to explain that if we do meet up we must sit with windows open (how many elderly in the middle of winter can do that? or anyone for that matter) and that we must not touch anyone elses cutlery, plates, glasses, towels etc. He used the example that the dish of roasties should not be placed on the table with one serving spoon, but must be plated up by one person in the kitchen. Seems all a bit too stressful and I know I couldn't be trusted to remember all this after my morning's bucks fizz and a few proseccos! Centre piece on the table this year would have to be a large holly bedecked bottle of sanitizer. I want to stay home, it will be safer and easier but the problem I have is that my elderly parents refuse to listen to Nicola and continue to pop out for coffees and a browse around the shops, thinking everything is an over reaction, so they will see this meeting up bubble as a great idea!
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Nicola Sturgon made it clear here in Scotland yesterday that although the 'loosening of restrictions' has been made, you should only meet up if you really NEED to. She went on to say that if a household can stay as one household at Christmas then that it what we should do. I got the impression that what she really wanted to say was 'Please dont meet up and ruin what we have achieved while a vaccine is just round the corner'. Obviously she cant say that, and is relying on people using common sense. We know how that's going then! The Chief Medical Officer went on to explain that if we do meet up we must sit with windows open (how many elderly in the middle of winter can do that? or anyone for that matter) and that we must not touch anyone elses cutlery, plates, glasses, towels etc. He used the example that the dish of roasties should not be placed on the table with one serving spoon, but must be plated up by one person in the kitchen. Seems all a bit too stressful and I know I couldn't be trusted to remember all this after my morning's bucks fizz and a few proseccos! Centre piece on the table this year would have to be a large holly bedecked bottle of sanitizer. I want to stay home, it will be safer and easier but the problem I have is that my elderly parents refuse to listen to Nicola and continue to pop out for coffees and a browse around the shops, thinking everything is an over reaction, so they will see this meeting up bubble as a great idea!
I'm afraid I'm with your parents on this one.
Sick of the emotional blackmail. You can see your family, but don't kill granny. Nice one. :o
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But if that actually happened, how would you feel?
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It is what it is, to a certain extent, survival of the fittest. Most of those deaths have been in people with underlying medical conditions - which is what was pushed initially to stop the public going into panic mode. The 10 year old last week who died had several medical conditions which had meant being under the care of hospitals almost continually, however, it's how he contacted the virus that is the worry. Someone carried it in2 his home where he was shielding apparently.
The Virus is out there. Being carried ......... I'm quite with those that go out but keep away from others. It's remembering to continually sanitise the hands/handles/car steering wheels/boot lids/council bins!
Even with vaccination, it is possible to carry a virus without being aware.
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My Granny's have been dead for decades.
If you have vulnerable family members personally I would let them decide. Risk is up the individual, or it always used to be.
What would you do in a bad flu season??
My father in law was finished of by a head cold. Life is dangerous.
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If I had vulnerable relatives I would keep them in their own homes. We all have telephones, we can send cards/letters ........ it's for a few days for goodness sake! I bet lots of people will be relieved not to continue with the travelling round relatives etc. ;) but no one wanted 2 B the first to suggest a change of tradition ;D
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The Chief Medical Officer went on to explain that if we do meet up we must sit with windows open (how many elderly in the middle of winter can do that? or anyone for that matter) and that we must not touch anyone elses cutlery, plates, glasses, towels etc. He used the example that the dish of roasties should not be placed on the table with one serving spoon, but must be plated up by one person in the kitchen. Seems all a bit too stressful and I know I couldn't be trusted to remember all this after my morning's bucks fizz and a few proseccos! Centre piece on the table this year would have to be a large holly bedecked bottle of sanitizer.
In England these are the rules we have had to follow over the past few months if anyone visits us in our homes especially when they stay overnight. I've found it really stressful trying to keep my sons safe when they visit especially when two stayed over at the same time! Everyone kept forgetting which hand towel belonged to who for a start! ;D
Taz x
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Taz - we haven't been allowed to stay overnight for months ............ not even in our camper van. Not there is anyone that I would want to stay overnight with other than DH :-* ;D
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Oh why? I didn't think the tier system came in until October and before then, during the summer, rules were relaxed for all of England for overnight stays as long as it was only two households mixing. I've probably got that wrong then as I do find it confusing! My friends took their camper all over the place during that time.
Taz x :-\
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I think I must have missed that :-\ - actually, you've jogged my memory : we did visit Mum briefly I think in July and stayed in our usual Motel ....... :-\. Life's been a bit of a blur. Apparently :D
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"Shops in England will be allowed to stay open for 24 hours a day in the run-up to Christmas and in January, the housing secretary has said.
"Local authorities will be able to temporarily waive the rules restricting retail opening hours.
"Writing in the Daily Telegraph, Robert Jenrick said the relaxation of the rules would allow shopping to be "more pleasant and safer".
"Shopkeepers and councils would decide how long stores stay open, he added.
"Primark has become one of the first to say that it will take advantage of the new rules".
Don't all rush at once!
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I will have done all my shopping by then ;D
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I have sent the 3 parcels that need to 'go'. Usually calendars or books. DH has mine to buy for. His are stored, out of sight ;-). I have opened a birthday token [B&Q] so that I can spend it when we next go to town: both branches are over 15 miles away ::). I am determined to stop all this by 2021, cards only. Tnx.
Mum is more difficult, until I find out her mental health situation I can't decide . If she isn't reading any more and not taking an interest in crosswords ; I do have a few items from Relish [Active Minds that was] but she will require help to open the packages and understand how to use them :-\
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I wouldn’t shop in the middle of the night myself but it’s a good idea to open 24 hours for those that want to for whatever reason.
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Most supermarkets are open 24/7 anyway ::). Great if one lives close, pop on a dressing gown and slippers and away you go ;D
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Yes, I’ll be in John Lewis in my PJ’s
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Don't forget to take the sleeping mask off or you'll miss the bargains ;D. 24 hour shopping really helps those with autism or anxiety!
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Our little local department store reopens tomorrow. I will be off there first thing to do the rest of my Christmas shopping, hopefully.
We need to do as much as possible for our local shops.
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I'm doing mine online I'm afraid. I want to support the high street but also don't want to risk catching the virus after being careful for so long. Our local businesses have been great at setting up online shopping so I'm still trying to support where I can.
Taz x
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I am waiting for our owner owned card shop to open this week 8)
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Middle son has tested positive today so he'll have to spend Christmas alone :(
Taz x
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Oh no! Is he symptomatic?
JP x
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That's a shame Taz.
We never stop worrying about our children, do we. :'(
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You are so right shadyglade. His dad did a doorstep drop-off of paracetamol, thermometer, cough lozenges and chocolate ;D. Luckily he's only 15 miles away though from tomorrow he's tier 3 whereas we're tier 2. Hopefully he'll start feeling better soon.
Taz x
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You are so right shadyglade. His dad did a doorstep drop-off of paracetamol, thermometer, cough lozenges and chocolate ;D. Luckily he's only 15 miles away though from tomorrow he's tier 3 whereas we're tier 2. Hopefully he'll start feeling better soon.
Taz x
I think you will still be okay to drop off surplies. The movement between tiers is advisory and not a strict rule. Don't forget some have to travel between tiers for work and school.
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Sorry I meant that both he and my eldest son and his wife live in tier 3 (youngest one moved back here temporarily at the start of second lockdown) and they aren't sure whether to move between tiers for Christmas even though it's allowed.
Taz x ::)
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Ah, got ya.
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So sorry about that Taz. MayB a food parcel on C.mas Eve., i.e. chicken soup ;)
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Maybe chicken soup but he's more likely to order a pizza! ;D
I still don't get the track and trace or whatever it's called. His phone has the App. His ex-wife's phone has it and he spent the day before going down with symptoms with her plus four hours in the office. Nobody has been contacted that they've been in contact with him but other friends have had over thirty messages telling them! It's all a shambles! :o
Taz x
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Expensive waste of time Taz. :(