Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: racjen on September 21, 2020, 11:17:11 AM
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I am having a really terrible time at the moment. After 8 - 10 months of relative stability on Evorel and Provera my mood started to deteriorate again, the crippling anxiety returned and I became quite severely depressed. This coincided (not surpisingly) with lockdown, as it meant all my support systems disappeared overnight. Also I think not helped by the unavailability of Evorel for quite a few months, so substitution with Estradot which I now think didn't agree with me. Back on Evorel now but only for a week or so so waiting to see if that has any effect.
Anyway, a week ago it all became way too much for me and I took an overdose, ended up in hospital for 5 days and am now in a psychiatric unit wondering what the hell happened. I feel absolutely awful - acutely anxious, very depressed and hopeless about ever regaining my mental health (and I'd never suffered from anything like this before menopause). Needless to say the psychiatrist here really isn't interested in investigating the hormonal side of things any further and I feel powerless to argue as I'm at such a low ebb and completely alone. They're prescribing an anti-psychotic drug called quetiapine to try and control the anxiety as I've tried every anti-depressant in the book with no success. Has anyone had any experience of this, or any thoughts on what I can do now? Really I just desperately need some support - it's very lonely in here and my family have pretty much disowned me as they can't cope with me anymore. The dr is talking about discharging me in 2 - 3 weeks and then I'll have to go and live on my own, which terrifies me....
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Sorry to hear this Racjen. I have no answers but sure someone will be along soon with some advice! Thinking of you at this awful time for you! It will get better it’s just finding the right balance which sometimes takes a while
Take care xx
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..... and breath :hug:
U know I find that dedicated anti-anxiety medications work for me - it's what they are designed for. At my worst I would have taken heroin if I had thought it would cure me :'(
Bachs rescue remedy can ease symptoms: I have used the mouth spray successfully. I spray it and get on, trying to intercept anxiety B4 it begins. There are pastilles too. I tried to learn relaxation therapy but found it difficult to find time and when I did sit down to listen to the tapes I fell asleep: not a bad thing.
Do you have a Social Worker who could work with you so that what you need to impart gets put to the medical team? 2-3 weeks is a while away, try to live half a day at a time. Trouble is with professionals, they have read the book but not necessarily been through depression and anxiety!
Also when ill I often think that I will be told "There is nothing more I can suggest" which causes huge panic. Dr Kathleen Dalton [I think] did a lot of work in the 1970s/80s about hormonal upsets on mood etc.. [NAPS]. Could you send an e-mail to them to see what up2date info there may be?
Could you keep a mood/food/symptom diary? Something to hand over when the Doctor appears at the bed side?
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Sorry to hear this Racjen. I have no answers but sure someone will be along soon with some advice! Thinking of you at this awful time for you! It will get better it’s just finding the right balance which sometimes takes a while
Take care xx
Unfortunately it's already been an awful long time (3 years since I started HRT) and I haven't found the right balance yet. No-one in the medical profession really seems interested; I'd be prepared to shell out to see Louise Newson, but unfortunately she has a waiting list of about 6 months at the moment.
CLKD, I've been on diazepam for too long and am now tolerant to it; other anti-anxiety medications (beta-blockers, pregabalin etc.) just haven't worked or have worsened my depression severely. And as for Rescue Remedy - are you joking? I'm talking full on terror-type anxiety; if Rescue Remedy works for you that's great but we're clearly talking about a completely different intensity of anxiety. And a food/mood diary? They'd laugh in my face (what's food got to do with it anyway?) I will look up Dr. Dalton though - thanks for that.
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You've still got your spark ;-) so don't give up. Why would they laugh? A good professional will take time to explore any option in order to help a patient to heal or regain control. Nope I wasn't joking. This is about getting you well B4 they discharge you. What I hate though is when I suggest something and I get patronised >:(
Food can be important - the brain is often forgotten, out of sight etc.. Our whole bodies require nourishment and a good diet can make a huge difference. When anxiety strikes me I stop eating :-\ but my brain continues "You must eat, you must eat". Like a stuck record and of course I do know that food is important: but I simply can't swallow :'(. My sense of smell is more acute: does that happen to you? : so foods that I would usually eat smell too 'rich' so it is impossible 4 me to even consider them.
Watching athletes and ballet dancers and hearing how they have to modify diets depending on how busy they are ........ rang bells for me many years ago. I also go light headed if I don't have breakfast and again, the anxiety starts.
When anxiety strikes I am in a shivering heap on the floor within seconds. I had a psychologist try to tell me that anxiety attacks can 'only last 20 mins. B4 they burn themselves out'. I left that session and never went back. My longest attack was nearly 3 days, I shook so badly that the mahogany 4-poster bed moved :o.
That aside, do look up the NAPS web-site. Won't do any harm to explore the research.
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NAPS is about Pre-menstrual syndrome - it says nothing about the menopause whatsoever.
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It's about hormonal upheaval. I'll ask the question ..... ;-)
Did send an e-mail - long and wandering, even for me ::) .......... to NAPS. Will let you know if I get a response!
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So sorry to hear this racjen :hug:
I'd be prepared to shell out to see Louise Newson, but unfortunately she has a waiting list of about 6 months at the moment.
Could you maybe contact Newson Health & explain the situation, asking for a cancellation appt, when you're in a position to talk to them? I imagine they will want to help if they can. I went to them in 2019 - they gave me a cancellation within a few days of my first ringing them.
Wx
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Hi racjen, I have been where you are now and its not fun. I am on a very small dose of quetiapen 25mg and it does work to calm down the anxiety, try the smallest dose first at night, it also will help you sleep. Your flight or fight system is on high alert at the moment, and the more you think about it the worse it gets. Look at the website by Nic Bird called A Little Peace of Mind. It may help you. Try and take this one day at a time. As you say, the staff dont understand if they havn’t been there! There is hope underneath all you are going through! Hold on.xx
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Racjen
Sorry to read this as I too could have been in your position so easily this year and back in 2017 when all this menopause struck and no anti depressant helped me at all. I didnt think I would get better at all truly the mental health team didnt want me I didnt think I was getting anywhere with hrt I was so desperate. What the mental health team did say was that the gp and meno clinic had to work harder to balance the hormones. So I have been going for regular blood checks and finally for the last 2 weeks I am well the hormone levels are in the right place and have to stay there but i will keep going back every few weeks to check on them. I have joy again and a future. I would say that I too have a private appt with a meno lady recommended to me by teh menopause cafe a lady in Bristol we were just going to zoo thats on 30 Sept. I havent cancelled it as yet but I sent an email with all my sad story which was desperate and she said "you have been through the mill havent you we will get you sorted" she charges £125 but you get follow up tel call and emails I am sure. YOu could have my appointment if I dont keep it and as im feeling now I dont think I need it. Plus my car has broken down so mpney needs to go to that. Have a think. Dont give up help is just around the corner I was soooooooooooooooo desperate I really really was xx
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just read my message we were not going to the zoo ;D we were going to zoom as Bristol too far away for me and even further with a broken car!!
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Thanks for the offer Bring me Sunshine - who is the specialist?
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racjen, I'm very sorry to hear you have been so low. Sorry to state the obvious but you desperately need some specialist help and soon. I would definitely try Wrensong's suggestion and see if you can get a cancellation at the Newson clinic or you could take up Bring me Sunshine's kind offer. You should not need to travel, all clinics are offering telephone/Zoom appointments at the moment.
For what it's worth, I think you were knocked back by the oestrogen instability with the 100mcg Estradot patches and it might take a good few weeks to get back to where you were with the Evorel patches. The effects of hormone spikes can be devastating for some women. But don't take my word for it, please try to get an appointment with a specialist.
Please let us know what you decide to do.
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racjen her name is Hazel Hayden
Your 45 minute Consultation with Hazel Hayden Bristol Menopause at 12:00pm (UK, Ireland, Lisbon Time) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 is scheduled.
As from 29th June 2020 I can see people in my Clinic again or if you would prefer via Zoom
If you have any problems with this booking, please call 07470867485 Dear Julie,
Thank you for booking in with me.
You poor thing you have been through the mill.
We will get you sorted.
Thats what she said to me. Have a look and I can speak to her if you want to take my appointment. Please never give up I truly nearly did and now I feel better its hormones and it wreaks havoc. You are not mentally ill you just need the right level of hormones for everything to work that is what I was told. xx
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Oh racjen. I am in your shoes, I think about taking my life regularly but something inside me keeps telling me to fight. The anxiety cripples me and I walk round the streets with my sunglasses on just sobbing and sobbing. Feelings of complete hopelessness fear and guilt consume me. I just can't get my hormones right. I did have a video consultation with newson health 250 pounds to be told to up my HRT which didn't work. I go to the gym swim run waiting for feelings of happiness but they don't come. I actually took a lorazepam last night and it did knock me out for a few hours. I am on pregabalin but it doesn't help. The doctor did want to try quetiapine at the beginning of this year but I was too scared to take it. The word anti physcotic meds petrified me. And I feel because it's more to do with our hormones these drugs will just mess us up more. My husband was thumping the wall The other nighT because I was screaming to the lord to just let me die. I don't know how much more of this shit i can take. I live half a day at a time but it's not living its existing. All my love Baby.x
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That is so awful :'(
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Baby you have my deepest sympathy - sounds so similar, I've been in that screaming place so often, seem to swing from unbearable anxiety to deadening depression on a regular basis (not sure which is worse). My partner of a year has said he doesn't want me to come back to live with him once I'm discharged because he can't stand it any longer - alright for him, he can just walk away. I simply cannot believe that unbalanced hormones can make you feel so unutterable dreadful, but I've seen enough evidence on here to know that they can x.
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racjen
Another option for you is Diane Danziebrink she is so wonderful I went to one of her talks. Here are her details as I enquired about an apointment with her too: Dear Julie
Thank you for your email enquiring about one to one menopause consultations with Diane, the consultations are for one hour via telephone or video call and can include a letter to your GP if required, the fee is £75, concessions available for those experiencing financial distress upon request.
If you would like to book please advise us of your regular weekday availability along with your telephone details. We will reply with the earliest available opportunities.
Kind Regards
Andrea Swan
Office Manager
www.menopausesupport.co.uk
Diane too wanted to end it all by driving her car off the road. This menopause is serious stuff for some of us susceptible sadly to hormone swings. If I had had a button to press to end it all I would have done couldnt face all the other options so you are not alone feeling and acting the one you have done. Dont feel any guilt you are not well it is a physical illness but believe me just having someone to say I will help you and sort it out means the world and Diane isnt in it for profit just to help having mean there herself ....Lots of love go gentle and you can private message me anytime if you want my appointment xx
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Hi Racjen.
Do consider getting in touch with Diane. She has wonderful capabilities and is very very knowledgeable on how to tackle these distressing menopause derived situations.
Keep reaching for support. So many of us are just existing rather than living and it’s horrible and can be put right with the correct treatment.
Wishing you strength.
Nas x
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I wrote a long for me post last night but must not have pressed enter.
I was planning my end as my mental and physical health plummeted with menopause.
I can't reclaim my physical deterioration and grieve a lot about it.
Antidepressants never ever helped and had seroius side effects.
I am only recently on a therapeutic dose of hrt. I don't bring up hrt issues because i'm scared doctors will take it from me.
Provera will increase your depression and stress response.
Gaba (gammaaminobutyric acid) helps anxiety. Cheaper in powder form. So does passionflower and valerian.
Jayashri Kulkarni is sort of my hero- a Monash (Melbourne) psychiatrist who writes and lectures about hormones and mental health. Why is main stream medicine not taking this stuff in? Because big pharma don't incentivise hormonal therapy.
I am only here by the grace of my precious Lord.
Much love Racjen and Baby xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
I'm so sorry that this has happened to you Racjen, Baby and Avalon, I really am. I really hope you get the help to recover. This year wouldn't have helped any of us.
I take citalopram but I need HRT now. Couldn't take Utrogestan because of the side effects but I too struggle with Provera worsening my mood, to the point where I had a breakdown in June and had to leave my job. Admittedly I was being bullied at work, so it was mostly the job - but my reaction was OTT, even for me.
Avalon, have you found a less psychologically damaging form of Progesterone? Because if so, I'm wondering if I can ask my GP for it.
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Thanks for replying, Avalon :-*
I tried Utrogestan - even vaginally every other day gave me the kind of acid reflux even Lansoprazole couldn't control!
I guess I'll have to stick with Provera for the time being.
There are quite a few of us struggling with MH issues, it's certainly true that no-one is alone in this. When I first developed it, I spent a lot of time feeling alone, then I took to various depression forums and there are an awful lot of us out there, what with 1/10 of people on AD's.
Hugs to everyone going through this. It's hard to know what to write sometimes.
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Unfortunately I couldn't tolerate Utrogestan vaginally either, haven't been able to find any form of progesterone that doesn't send me into the black pit. It was recommended that I have a hysterectomy earlier this year and it felt pretty drastic, then lockdown happened so it went on hold anyway. If and when I get through this bad patch I may very well consider it again as it may be the only answer.
Thanks to you all for your suggestions. I did actually speak to Diane Danzebrink very early on in all this (so several years ago now) and although she was very sympathetic and encouraging I didn't feel her advice was that helpful. Later on I saw Dr. Sarah Gray in Plymouth, and her advice at that point was good as I was getting absolutely no help from my hopeless GP. Dr. Gray put me on a very high dose of estrogen which helped a lot, but she wasn't able to help with the progesterone intolerance or the anxiety side of things - when her suggestions of sertraline and amytriptyline failed that seemed to be it. So I'm wary of going to see just anyone, it needs to be someone who really does have in depth experience of major mental health problems resulting from menopause. I'm not keen to see Prof. Studd as he seems to just dole out estrogen and Utrogestan to everyone, and I know that's not going to work for me. Louise Newson seems like my best bet - I'm hoping that the fact that she charges twice as much as the others mentioned is an indication that she really does know her stuff (although I may be wrong...) This is my last chance to sort things out so I really need to see the right person.
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This is the thing, isn't it, finding someone who specialises in both menopause and mental health conditions...AD's work after a fashion but mainly by making me too tired to get anxious. Add in the Prog and I'm permanently knackered :-\
I wonder if Levornogestrel or Dydrogesterone are less damaging on this front. If Femseven patches come back online, I'd definitely give them a try. Have heard that Norehisterone in the Evorel conti patches isn't great for mood, but if it's transdermal, maybe won't be as dramatic. I guess you've tried them?
Racjen, I really hope you get to see Dr. Newson and she knows what will work. Quite a few medical things one has to pay to get the expertise, it doesn't seem fair, but so worth it if it works.
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Oh racjen. I am in your shoes, I think about taking my life regularly but something inside me keeps telling me to fight. The anxiety cripples me and I walk round the streets with my sunglasses on just sobbing and sobbing. Feelings of complete hopelessness fear and guilt consume me. I just can't get my hormones right. I did have a video consultation with newson health 250 pounds to be told to up my HRT which didn't work. I go to the gym swim run waiting for feelings of happiness but they don't come. I actually took a lorazepam last night and it did knock me out for a few hours. I am on pregabalin but it doesn't help. The doctor did want to try quetiapine at the beginning of this year but I was too scared to take it. The word anti physcotic meds petrified me. And I feel because it's more to do with our hormones these drugs will just mess us up more. My husband was thumping the wall The other nighT because I was screaming to the lord to just let me die. I don't know how much more of this shit i can take. I live half a day at a time but it's not living its existing. All my love Baby.x
Hi Baby,
I just wanted to say that even though taking Anti-Psychotics is a petrifying thought, it is worth trying if all else fails, you shouldn't have to suffer like this.
I say this from personal experience, my son was going through hell (he ended up headbutting the wall and putting his head through the window, to name just a couple of things :() and we tried EVERYTHING before going down the Anti psychotic route but after 18 months we could not bear to see him suffer anymore.
They worked wonders, within a couple of weeks he was happy, he now laughs, the mood swings and self harm are gone, something we were so scared to use gave him back the quality of life he deserved :)
I think sometimes we expect HRT to be the 'cure all' but sometimes we need a little help, and to give something else a chance.
I hope this helps, and shows that Anti psychotics can sometimes have a good outcome.
Take care
xx
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:thankyou: Corianne
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Thank you corinne for your kind words. Sometimes I think about self harm to take away the mental pain but know it isn't the answer. Could I ask what your sons problems were to have to take this medication. X
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Hi Baby, I had a similar experience with my teenage daughter who suffered really severe OCD and anxiety. She was recommended to go on Sertraline, but I was terrified because I'd tried it and had a really bad reaction to it. However, she's had no problems at all, no side-effects except loss of appetite, and it's really helped her general mental state.
After one day on Quetiapine I feel OK, better than I have in quite a few weeks actually. Greatly reduced anxiety, slept better and feeling much more sociable. It's very very early days, sometimes the bad reactions can come after the drug's had a chance to build up in your system, but at the moment I'm feeling optimistic. Maybe it's worth a try - you can always stop immediately if you really don't like it...xxx
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Thank you corinne for your kind words. Sometimes I think about self harm to take away the mental pain but know it isn't the answer. Could I ask what your sons problems were to have to take this medication. X
Hi Baby - Apologies - I wrote a post, went to change it then deleted it! So this is a short version..
Severe Anxiety mainly, it started with puberty (before that no problems at all) his enjoyment for life drained out of him. He would burst into tears and sob for no reason and wake in the night like he had night terrors. It progressed to self harm, destructive behaviour and harming others.
Our GP prescribed a sedative for him to take when things got really bad and I think it was her who first mentioned anti psychotics, but because he was under the Paediatricians care at the same time it needed to be prescribed by them, and although we were petrified of what the medication might do, we thought it was a risk worth taking. There was an 18 month battle to get the Paediatrician to at least try him on them, but in the end they agreed.
To our amazement they worked! He is still on them, it's been 4 years now, and recently we have begun the process of weaning him off them to see if he still needs them, or can manage on a lower dose. We will still have the option of putting the dose up if he gets worse.
I know this isn't menopause related, but I hope it shows that even in the very worst cases, the right medication can make a world of difference :)
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corianne - thank you. I have a belief that hormones can cause mental health in boys especially schizophrenia [sp]. I wonder if anyone has ever researched purity in young boys?
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corianne - thank you. I have a belief that hormones can cause mental health in boys especially schizophrenia [sp]. I wonder if anyone has ever researched purity in young boys?
I agree!!
We looked at the time for any research to back up what we suspected and that it was hormonal, but there was very little available at the time.
We see the changes hormones can make to women in Menopause, and girls going through puberty, but there must be some boys who suffer as well.
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Yep.
racgen - thinking of you
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Rachel, how are you sweetie?x
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Oh god, where to start? Two better days on Quetiapine - slept better, anxiety greatly reduced, felt in a better mood in general. Today the anxiety's crept back and I'm feeling really low, terrified that this one's not going to work either. Missing my daughters - it's pretty lonely in here, a weird mix of people and a lot of the time there's no-one around and nothing to do so bored as well.
They're expecting me to start progesterone on Sat because my prescription says '10mg days 14 - 28', but I never take it like that because I just can't tolerate that much, so I usually end up taking it with a full month in between, but only 5mg and for as long as I can tolerate it, which is usually somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks. Probably not enough, but I do get a bleed each time and no abnormal bleeding in between so I'm willing to take the risk. If I take it at the level prescribed now I'll be severely depressed within days (whereas at the moment although I'm low I can function) and that'll then make it really hard to assess what effect the Quetiapine is having. I have the legal right to refuse treatment but I'd really rather not have to go down that route as it's bound to create friction.
Horrible situation to be in - trying to explain the intricacies of menopausal moods and HRT to people who're barely aware the menopause is a thing, but who are in a position of power over me. If all else fails I can discharge myself, but I really don't want to do that because then I'll have to go and live on my own in an isolated place and I'll be at risk of suicide again. Plus if they think that's a risk they could Section me and then my rights'll be drastically reduced. Rock bottom tbh.....
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Oh yeah, and I had to go back to hospital for basic checks, blood test, ECG etc. at lunchtime. Male doctor pulls up my top and bra to put ECG stickers on, see my mastectomy scar and says 'oh, what's this - gallbladder?' To which I really should've replied ' no you tosser, they cut my fucking breast off' but my usual spark (thanks btw CLKD) failed me. Do they not teach basic anatomy these days? I actually feel really upset now, like I've been invaded...
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racjen, having read your post, I wonder if the time has come for you to push for a hysterectomy. I know it's a drastic step but you are clearly having problems with the dreaded progesterone.
I have suggested you try bespoke progesterone in the past but on reflection, I wonder if you should risk progesterone at all either continuously or cyclically. I certainly don't think the fluctuations of a cycle are helping you at all.
Before making a decision, I would sound out the Newson clinic or another reputable menopause specialist but before committing to an appointment, find out if they are clued up on chemo induced menopause. Give them a brief outline of your background and make sure they can help you before parting with any money. From what I have read on here, induced/surgical menopause is more difficult to treat.
Try to hang on to the fact than you did well on the Evorel 100mcg and aim to get back to that. You would probably feel even better without the need for progesterone.
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Mary what you said reminded me that last time I saw my gp he told me he had only had one lady before me who was so poorly with meno and she had an hysterectomy which helped her.
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And sorry for calling you Rachael. I don't know what I'm doing half the time. X
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So sorry to hear that, racjen. Are you on the Evorel patches? What progesterone are you talking about? Hormones are so powerful, I don't know why healthcare professionals can't understand that!
Wow, gallbladder? :o
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Baby, in extreme cases of progesterone intolerance, a hysterectomy is the ultimate solution and many women who have struggled for years experience a massive improvement from oestrogen only HRT without the need for progesterone.
Obviously this is a huge step but women should not be afraid to take this route if necessary and they have tried all progesterone options of course.
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racjen - would you be able to access a social worker to advocate for you. It's surprising how soon mental health services can 'take over' someone's Life :-\. 21st Century seems to make little distance if 'they' won't listen.
It annoys me how each speciality doesn't seem to join up the dots in that some conditions may well aggravate others. As for the Dr not recognising a mastectomy scar, that is beyond awful. Pity I wasn't with you :bang: .......... :kick: how demoralising!! what happened to respect!!
Half a day at a time, keep that spark as often as possible.
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Mary G, I wouldn't have to push for it, it's already been suggested to me by my GP and subsequently a gynaecology consultant. Went away to think about it because the potential risks are quite alarming and I wasn't convinced it would solve the problem. And then Covid happened so it all got shelved anyway...Right now if I could be absolutely certain that a hysterectomy would solve the problem I wouldn't hesitate, but how can I be certain?
And Uptick, yes I'm on Evorel and Provera. Tried Utrogestan and that was far worse.
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With men they can give a chemical 'castration' [they do it with male dogs too ;-)] but I don't know that option is available to us?
Glad that the medication has helped, it may be bounce back anxiety for a few hours but then the drug should take control. Don't forget to eat ;-).
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racjen, it's good that you have the backing for a hysterectomy. I suppose you will never know 100% as to whether or not it will work but if you have tried every progesterone option and dose available and you really can't tolerate it for more than a few days then a hysterectomy is probably your only option.
If you feel good on oestrogen only then that would be a good indicator.
I wish there were better progesterone options more widely available. I thought progesterone was causing my silent migraines but it turned out to be oestrogen spikes, genetic hormone instability and the dreaded Utrogestan was the cause. A hysterectomy would not have helped in my case but my problems were different.
Have a look at my thread in the Alternative Therapies section if you get a chance, it might help.
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Part of the problem is that until earlier this year I was feeling good on estrogen only, and then that changed for no apparent reason (apart from the possibility it was the enforced change from Evorel to Estradot, in which case it's going to take a while before the change back has any effect). So right now I'm totally confused.
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Part of the problem is that until earlier this year I was feeling good on estrogen only, and then that changed for no apparent reason (apart from the possibility it was the enforced change from Evorel to Estradot, in which case it's going to take a while before the change back has any effect). So right now I'm totally confused.
There are a few posts on here from women who have changed to Estradot and feel worse, so it wouldn't be surprising if that's a factor.
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I felt terrible on estradot switched back to evorel and was fine. There’s a thread on here about it, they are made from different things x
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Not a high enough dose of estrogen - that's why I'm on separate estrogen and progesterone rather than a combined patch, cos none of them have enough estrogen.
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Racjen
I bet it’s the change of Med brand that’s caused all this heightened anxiety ?
They say “oh it’s exactly the same”
It isn’t
I bet if you’d off managed to make it longer on the original hrt before started on the anti psychotic you’d would off levelled out again
So unfortunate you had to take the other brand of hrt
Wish you all the best of luck racjen,
Nobody deserves to go through this anxiety/depression is !!!!!!
No words really explains it
The pits, dark tunnel, no life, empty,
Soul destroying. To name a few
It takes strength everyday to get through
Anyone got any idea how long it could take to get back on track if it was the patches? I've only been on the new ones for 10 days.....
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If you did a list with the positives vs negatives, the hysterectomy would win.
I agree, but only if it was certain that removing progesterone from the equation would solve the problem, and it's by no means certain at the moment. I don't want to go through all that only to find I'm no better off than I was before.
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racjen, it will probably take a good few weeks for you to get back to where you were with the Evorel patches.
Re the progesterone issues, all you can do is work your way through all the (very limited in my opinion) progesterone options.
I was in a similar situation to yourself just over two years ago. I got to the stage where I could no longer take Utrogestan and periods were making feel very ill. I was desperate and had no idea what to do. I could not just drop everything and go for a hysterectomy at that point in time for various reasons so after a further consultation with the migraine specialist, I made an appointment with a menopause specialist who prescribes bespoke HRT as well as conventional HRT. It was a last ditch effort to resolve my progesterone problem and it worked - I actually feel better with a low dose of progesterone every day - but obviously there is no guarantee it would work for you. However, it might be worth literally ruling everything out so that you know in your mind that you have not rushed into having a hysterectomy and there is no better solution just around the corner.
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Mary G, we probably had this conversation ages ago, but can you let me have the details of the specialist you're talking about please?
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racjen, it would be more than my membership is worth to mention the name of any doctor I consult on here!
I'm going to send you a PM.
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I have been to the docs today and told him I want to die after wrapping the extensions lead round my neck on Friday night and trying to strangle myself and for the first time in my 52 and a half years of life self harming. I have totally lost the will to live This is from a woman who three years ago had a full and fulfilling life. The crisis team have spoken to me and my dear friend is taking me to see them on Thursday. I have fought and fought this for 14bmonths and nothing helps. The gp has given me premique HRT to try next but I just know it won't work any better than the other four I have tried. As I have said in other threads I always had low level anxiety but now my every waking hour is full of panic . People say think positive I do every morning, I say today is going to be good but it never is :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Just wanted to send best wishes to you! There are no words to help but hopefully Thursday will be your day to start to get things moving in the right direction!
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Baby, sending a gentle hug & just wanted to say I'm so sorry I couldn't help when we chatted recently on the other thread. Well done for going back to your GP. That can't have been easy. I'm relieved to know he's arranged some expert help for you & I hope you'll feel reassured by their support when you see them on Thursday. Wishing you peace of mind & contentment for the future. :hug:
Wx
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Continual anxiety is awful. It led me to despair.
Baby - how is your diet? A lot of my problems were due to not eating correctly or enough to maintain mental health. I was scared that if I ate I would feel worse and I couldn't afford to feel worse - but my body was craving food :'(
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Baby, I feel your pain BIG TIME! I have been dealing with this for over three years! I am 52, so I am hoping that perimenopause is on its way out. I have had so many horrible physical and mental symptoms, but the mental symptoms have been horrendous. I have also been suicidal, and if it hadn't been for the unwavering support of my spouse and close friends and family, I wouldn't be here. I, too, have tried HRT, but it made everything worse, so it certainly isn't the answer for everyone.
I don't know if you can private message people on this forum, but if you can, please do:)
Sending big hugs and the deepest of understanding.
Bev xo
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Clkd I changed my diet completely 12 months ago, loads of fish chicken porridge bananas nuts everything but hasn't made any difference x
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That's a shame. Sometimes the brain needs feeding in order to ease anxiety :-\. My problem is that I often don't eat enough :-\
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Sorry to hear that, clio51. Are you on anxiety meds or just HRT?
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Yes I'm still stuck here, bored and lonely and desperate to get out. Waiting to see if the combination of Quetiapine and Duloxetine helps with the depression and acute morning anxiety....
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No access to a TV?
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Yes but I can't watch TV all the time, I'll go mad...
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Whereas I can watch TV all day long ::) unless agitated when I have to walk or pace :'(
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I don't even have a TV licence at home - I do watch stuff on Amazon and DVDs, but since being here and watching daytime TV I have to say I'm really shocked by how terrible most of it is, really poor quality mindless rubbish.
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You wouldn't do well in my household - ;D ........ bet we wouldn't read the same books .....
When poorly I begin with 'homes under the hammer', 'bargain hunt' : after the lunchtime News it's a couple of hours B4 A Place in the Sun, Dickineons' Real Deal, 'escape to the country', that lovely Ben with "Tipping Point" - good for pitting my wits against the questions ;-).
What would you watch?
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That takes practice clio51, well done! I do find if I get out of bed if my mind is ruminating it helps to get into routine: wash, teeth, dressed, breakfast, feed birds. Things that I don't have to even think about.
Also I used to sit and wait for the medication to do it's worst :-\ - now I tend to take the tablets and then get on. Waiting made my brain whirl :o
How's the afternoon been racjen?
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I did watch Pride and Prejudice the other day, and the Great British Bakeoff which I always get hooked on. But all that homes and holidays stuff bores me rigid I'm afraid. I like a good bit of Crime - watching Cracker on Britbox at the moment, in fact there is quite a lot of good stuff on Britbox, some classic TV series.
I've been on the Quetiapine for about 10 days, then the Duloxetine was added about 5 days ago. Nausea and headaches aren't so bad but I think it's early days to see any improvement yet - I get that horrible first thing in the morning anxiety and it certainly isn't doing anything for that.
One of the other patients has been isolated with possible Covid symptoms, which means none of us can go out or have visitors. So been knitting all afternoon. Hopefully it'll turn out to be negative - I was really hoping to get out of here this week, it's enough to make anyone feel depressed and anxious.
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I wouldn't B in too much of a hurry myself :-\ - Dad always said that he felt 'safe' when in treatment. I would want to be absolutely certain that the regime was working and that my GP would be prepared to support the changes.
I don't like crime ::). My brain can never keep up! I've never read/watched any Jane Austin. Nor Shaekespeare nor War and Peace. I do like real life stories, read Tony Robinson's latest - no cunning plan - I think that's the title.
Does that early morning anxiety last as long as previously? I had a scale : 1-5. 1 meant that I was aware of background anxiety, by 5 I had to take medication.
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I HATE having to be around other people all the time though - adds to my anxiety. And you have to wait till after 8am to get meds - I'm usually awake and anxious from 6am. I find it comes on very quickly after I wake up and is intense enough to be a 5 by your system. ADs can take weeks to work, I'm not hanging around in here that long...
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I’ve read your posts RacJen and wanted to give you my support. Your posts also took me back to a horrible place that I was in in 2015/2016.
I went to places in my head that I never knew existed, it was a horrific experience.
Happily in 2020 - despite the Covid crisis I have a life and am happy.
I also take duloxetine at 40 mg and high doses of oestrogen. 7 pumps per day.
It’s been a long road to get where I am but having a hysterectomy helped me. I don’t need progesterone and that has been the best outcome for me.
Whatever you decide regarding a hysterectomy, get yourself well first mentally and then decide.
I just wanted to let you know there is always hope x
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Morning.
We are told that ADs may take up to 10 days B4 kicking in, however, it's never been that long 4 me so don't give up hope, try not to hinge on that aspect. Allow the drug to do it's work. Have you spoken to the Consultant about mayB having the drug earlier to see whether it alleviates your early morning symptoms?
I HATE being around others when I'm well :-\ - short bursts of interaction are fine. We never have anyone visit in case they stay too long if that makes sense?
:thankyou: MIS71MUM
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No they won't change their routine for one person - everybody gets their morning meds at 8am, that's how it works. Mealtimes make me laugh here too - if I could face breakfast it would be 7.30 - 9.30 which is fine, lunch is 12 - 12.30 and then dinner at 5 - 5.30pm. Way too early for me, it's like nursery tea-time. I don't normally eat until 7.30pm at the earliest. So I end up getting mine put back and heating it up later on when I'm actually hungry. That way I also don't have to eat with everyone else which suits me fine....
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All lumped together then! Not conducive to treating individuals >:(. I too hate eating with others when I'm ill.
Many years ago DH and I went to a family anniversary meal on his side. [I've mentioned these elsewhere]. Because we were working and lived 2 hours' drive away from the venue, we left earlier than others. His Mother said, in front of everyone else "Nice to see you eating all your lunch today X". I was furious, still am - 15 years later! It was "I know X better than anyone else ........ " :bang: She was on a totally different table and I had no idea that she had been watching :'(
Little steps racjen. Let the medication do it's work ............
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Hopefully this regime will suit so that once you get home - so that you can take the meds when necessary.
I would love to have friends here to show them our garden, year round but making arrangements causes my gut to roll. >:(. :-\ But I have found my level most days :) when in the 1990s I feared that I would never leave the house nor venture into our garden at the back.
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Just wanted to bring people up to date: I'm still in hospital, been on Quetiapine 50mg morning and evening, Duloxetine increased to 60mg for about 5 days and I'm definitely feeling better - both anxiety and depression are greatly reduced. Only real side effects are nausea, which is gradually decreasing, constipation, and disturbed sleep. But if I get my life back I'm willing to put up with quite a lot physically. I suppose my dilemma is - I still think my problems are mainly hormonal, but there doesn't seem to be a hormonal solution. So if this drug regime works do I just stick with it and give up on looking for anything else? I have an expensive appointment booked with Louise Newsom's clinic on Nov 2nd, but I'm wondering now whether there's any point.....
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I would keep the appt.. It's covering all angles and if you take details of your regime and how it helps etc., it is something to discuss. It also allows Dr Newson to keep up to date as to how difficult mental health can be during The Change?
So pleased that you are gaining confidence albeit slowly. Glad that the nausea is decreasing, that is my largest problem with new medication :'(. Constipation can be eased with medication - I find that if I stop my medication for 24 hours, it allows my bowel to let go. It maybe that once the nausea goes your whole digestive tract will relax and begin to work properly.
You have been through a lot in recent years, I'm not surprised that your sleep is disturbed. :foryou:
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I think my sleep is disturbed because of the Duloxetine - very common side effect of ADs. I'm still not convinced about keeping the appointment - £275 is a lot to spend unless I really feel I'm going to get something out of it, and now that I'm gradually (fingers crossed0 approaching some kind of stability I'd be unwilling to rock the boat with any other changes.
Having said that, I've had a break from progesterone while all this has been going on, because I knew it'd make me even more depressed and that would then make it hard to tell if the ADs were working. So I'll have to see what happens when I go back on it; if it's still as problematic as ever I'll keep the appointment.
I'm going for an overnight home visit today, then back here but to the less acute section of the hospital for another week, then hopefully home. Pleased and terrified at the same time....
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Of course it's scary. It's progress. If you don't want the appt. do let them know in good time so that they are able to reallocate it. Also, even if changes are suggested you can consider rather than take them. If you know that progesterone is some of the mental health issues, it might be worth getting advice about that aspect?
Do you have 2 pack your case, go home then repack ::). I'm sure you will be fine. Even if you don't sleep you will be in your own bed :foryou:
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How did your home visit go, was it as scary as you thought it might be ?
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Yeah, that's how much Louise Newson's clinic costs, even by phone or video call. It's money I really can't afford to waste (I'm on benefits) and given that I've tried pretty much all possible progesterone options (various synthetics, utrogestan, mirena, provera) and now being recommended to have a hysterectomy, I'm really not sure there's going to be much else they can suggest. I guess what I need to do is see how it goes with provera now that I'm on these meds (I've taken a break while in hospital so the progesterone effect doesn't cloud the general picture) and then decide. Finally being discharged on Weds, then I'll be back home on my own - feeling a bit wobbly about it, but after 5 weeks in various hospitals I'll be glad to have a bit of privacy and independence back x.
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Well done! The Hospital will be there should you require it. Did U cope with your over-nighter?
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Yes, I was a bit wobbly but fine thanks. I'm out again at the moment but going back tonight. Then full discharge tomorrow. YEsterday my daughter and partner came over and we all went on the bus to our nearest seaside town, Teignmouth, which is only 20 mins away. Really nice as I haven't been out properly for months. And yes, I'll have a community care worker to make sure I'm OK at home.
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Little steps. Haven't been to Teignmouth since I was 9 ........
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How R U coping?
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All going well thanks - the meds are continuing to help, and despite the current news of more lockdown I'm feeling OK. The only cloud on the horizon is that I haven't reintroduced progesterone yet - have been having an extended break to get this sorted first. But I really need to start again now, hoping it won't derail things.....x
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I'm so pleased .......... do you have a plan if the progesterone upsets your balance?
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Well I was offered a hysterectomy last year - that's there as my last ditch solution, but of course with the Covid resurge it's not going to be possible anytime soon anyway. I really don't know other than that - just crossing my fingers at the moment x
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Morning. Do not assume that due to C-19 that surgery isn't going ahead. There are hospitals that are not involved with cases it might be worth while asking for an update on the situation? I would ring the secretary to the Consultant you talked with and mayB get onto a waiting list, if progesterone does't upset you then cancel your name on the List. ;-) It's been a long haul getting to where you are now.
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I have a friend who’s having a hysterectomy today Racjen. She was only scheduled in June x