Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Bobidy on June 26, 2020, 05:09:41 PM
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Hi all
This is a long standing issue many of us have had with Ostrodose, old Estrogel design and new Estrogel.
I've just been catching up on Liz Earle's You Tube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rzJ9gHUqXN8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rzJ9gHUqXN8)
and she talks about this issue being rumbled by Dr Zoe at Manchester Menopause Hive instagram, with advice on how to get what you want.
I thought this may help some of you. I've swapped to patches now so it's no longer an issue for me thank god, but earlier this year I'd had to double my dose of gel to 6-8 pumps overnight.
We shall overcome!!!! xx
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Thanks Bobidy- there was definitely a difference between them for me when I used them. :)
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Hmmm, I had to switch from patches to gel, Oestradose, been on it for a month now and my bladder symptoms have returned, been fine on patches, now keep feeling like I have a bladder infection, urgency and started leaking, was fine before now. Coincidence or maybe not :-\
Lillith.
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Oh my goodness, that oestrodose was what they gave me when I ran out of patches
I have been so poorly on it
I thought it was the tablet!
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My meno symptoms come back when i have ended up with Oestrodose and i get skin irritation with it too. I have been told on several occasions that there was no difference between them on this forum and by pharmacists. I now go to an independant chemist and they always order Oestrogel in for me.
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Well last night just validates it for me, hot flushes back, irritable, cant sleep, both hands numb and peeing all night :'(. Didn't have any of this on patches and even started to get my libido back. I best ring my GP on Monday.
My bottle had a sticker on saying Oestrogel which covered up the original Oestradose label, am fuming as it took months to build up my estrogen levels and just started feeling good on the patches :'(. I was going to attached a pic of my bottle but I don't know how.
Just a thought as gel is unstable, I wonder if it's lost it's potency due to storing it in too high a temperature when they collect it from the EU ?.
Lillith.
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Thanks for posting this, but sorry to burst your bubble Bobidy as she really doesn't know what she's talking about!
I listened to the relevant section with interest as a couple of years ago I spent a lot of time and energy on this trying to get to the bottom of it to help other members and there is a very long thread on it (which goes off on fanciful tangents now and again!).
The upshot was as far as we know there is no difference in manufacture between the two but they are labelled for different countries, sometimes packaged differently ( the outer carton and pump mechanism) for parallel importers, of which there are several (good luck with trying to contact any of these!).
She has not said anything that we don't already know as far as I can make out. I'm not sure whether we knew that it was manufactured at different plants in France (Belgium?) but all the other information does not change anything nor confirm that there are differences.
She glossed over what she suggested might be differences in manufacture and then talked about possible differences in storage conditions and then later in her rant said ? something along the lines that how dreadful it was that women find something that works for them and then they ?mess around with the manufacture or storage or whatever? or words to that effect! Previously she talked about evidence based information. Nothing about what she said was evidence based and the same answers probably that I got when I wrote to Besins. She didn't even properly know what parallel imports were.
She said she knew about gels having worked in skin care, but why on earth would a company market a pharmacuetical product that was that unstable and clearly this would be tested? I mean she really should stick to skin care in my view!
All the details about what they said can be found on the other thread which I will find and bump but here are the main points:
?Oestrodose is the same as Oestrogel. In the UK the product is branded Oestrogel, some other
countries such as France call the product Oestrodose. In the UK the parallel imports of Oestrogel are all sourced from France and are labelled Oestrodose.
All of the Besins Oestrogen Gels have exactly the same qualititative and quantitative compositions and are all manufactured at Besins Healthcare, Belgium.
... all of the products are identical in terms of the composition, packaging supplied and manufacturer and so there is no difference in hot/cold countries.?
?There is only one formulation for manufacturing this product and the stabilities on the product, whether Oestrodose or Oestrogel, are all compliant. There was no significant difference in the past 20 years in stability studies for this product. However, the stability studies are made on products not leaving the factory and stored in the optimum conditions for the complete shelf-life period, although we have stability studies for the following conditions: 25℃ & 30℃ for 36 months and 40℃ for 6 months.
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Here is the bit about stability:
?However, the product Oestrodose distributed in the UK is not monitored by Besins. Once the product leaves the distribution warehouse in France, we do not know what happens to the product when it is with the wholesaler in France and when it is shipped to the importer in the UK. Therefore, it is not possible for us to confirm that this is just a perception as there is a part of the time where the product has been out of our control and we do not know what conditions the product has been exposed to?
There has always remained the possibility that storage conditions from some parallel importers might affect the gel if it was far outside the optimal parameter, but this is a totally different issue from manufacture.
The issue of the yellow card was also covered in the thread and has been repeatedly stressed whenever this topic comes up, so if anyone had an allergic reaction specifically to eg Oestrodose and not Oestrogel this needs reporting under this scheme and ideally also to Besins as this could indicate a fraudulent product maybe?
Changing from patches to gel and how your respond is a completely different issue to the one raised here. Changing delivery method will always involve some tweaking and some women absorb better through patches, others through gel. Other individual factors also affect gel absorption ? again covered in that thread I think. Different temepratures on your skin will affect absorption and also if you are perimenopausal then your own levels will vary.
Lilith. Sorry to hear about your return of sympoms but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with oestrodose. This woman on Youtube is doing other women a disservice by suggesting the product does not work or implying this. Your return of symptoms are because you have changed from patches to gel and what you are feeling would be the same if you were using the UK packaged Oestrogel. but if it's not suiting you then you either need to increase the dose or go back to patches if your levels are stable using these? Good luck!
Have a good weekend everyone :)
Hurdity x
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Hi, yes by the sounds of it, it's the storage or carrier gel stability.
I didn't write down the details Liz gave at the end of her chat, but I think if you gave your doctor all of the specifics this should be very clear for the pharmacist.
The more I know about hrt and the menopause the more outraged I become x
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I agree with what Hurdity has said. I am a member of Menopause Support Group on Facebook and Diane Danzebrink has been doing a lot of research into the Oestradose / Oestrogel saga. She has had a reply from Besins and they state that the two are identical. Dr Zoe Hodson has been looking into how to get prescribed Oestrogel rather than Oestradose, but she hasn't actually said that they are different.
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Thanks Hurdity, it's an interesting read, I have applied 3 pumps of gel this morning to see if that helps, if not I must not be suited to the gel.
Does anyone know about the availability of patches now ?, are they still hard to get hold of ?.
Lillith.
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Hi all
For those who are interested Dr Zoe has just posted on her Instagram, Manchester Menopause Hive, about this again. I can't copy and paste it I'm afraid. Basically Besins have confirmed about storage and also Oestrodose turning up instead of Estrogel.
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In order to demonstrate that adverse storage conditions had affected the quality of the estradiol gel (which started off as identical according to Besins), samples of bottles where women feel there is a difference, need to be sent off for testing to determine the estradiol content as well as some sort of quality control to ensure that it meets the standards of the product packaged and lableed for the UK. if this was done and it didn't then surely the PI licence (parallel import) would be revoked for that particular company. This is an ongoing saga, so if storage is an issue I can't understand why this would not have been investigated before? My correspondence with Besins goes back two years. I had a look at the Instagram post but couldn't see anything to confirm or refute anything really. Maybe I'll contact her!
The issue of Oestrodose as Oestrogel is another matter. Like I have reported before - it is called Oestrogel because that is what it is known as in the UK. There is only one Besins estradiol product on the EMC register. it's like with some patches. During the shortage women have sometimes been getting the EU (not UK) equivalent of a particualr patch with a label put over it because it is known by a different name in different countries. It is the same patch though..... Of course if women want the one labelled Oestrogel but not overlabelled, then they have the information to do so.
I started looking into it originally because it was a long saga with all sorts of speculation and talk about generics so at least I sorted that out! The storage is another matter but also I would have thought easy to determine through the yellow card scheme and/or return of samples to Besins themslelves. Surely their reputation is also at stake here?
Hurdity x
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Hi all
What Insta is saying is ...
Estrogel and and Oestrodose are both made by Besins in Belgium, Estrogel for U.K. market and Oestrodose for France market. Some parallel import companies e.g. Chemilines, are buying cheaper Oestrodose in France and selling it to the U.K. wholesalers e.g Phoenix, who repackage and relabel it as Estrogel for U.K. pharmacies.
Besins have confirmed that once products leave them they have no control over the storage and it seems to be the storage conditions of Oestrodose which is causing the breakdown of the product?
Meno ladies are being urged to request the English version of Estrogel, PIP code 217-1775 and ask your doctors to specify this on your prescription. Check the prescription before you leave the pharmacy, you can ask them to ensure it isn't Oestrodose. If you don't want it don't take it! Once you leave that pharmacy you can't return it for refund/resale, it will have to be destroyed by them.
If you are fine on Oestrodose then obviously don't take any notice of any of this and carry on.
If you are using Oestrodose and find it less effective then take a minute to complete the yellow card system via gov.U.K.
I'm confident that they'll get to the bottom of it somehow.
If it turns out to be something dodge then hopefully heads will roll!!!!
Thank god patches are back in circulation that's all I can say, if ladies speak with their feet then surely Besins etc will do a proper investigation.
For me personally I don't see how this many women can be affected and it not be a less effective product but Evorel can have my business now for the next 40 years.
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thanks, I've reported the ineffectiveness (for me) of Oestrodose on the yellow card system.
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That's great Jeepers.
I know this all sounds a bit melodramatic but I appreciate how distressing it is when we've got a routine that works fine for ages and then it gets thrown out and symptoms come back. I know there can be lots of reasons for this but I do think it's worth looking at.
If it does turn out to be the product then I think that's unacceptable and needs investigation and accountability,
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Just to add my pennys worth I had read everything about oestradose v estrogel at length. I fell ill again the end of December and noticed I had been on oestradose for 6 weeks. I looked at the ingredients and both the same although the oestradose smelt more alcholy. I went to the drs and took them both in and she said a number of women had said it wasnt as effective. I then went to the pharmacy with them both and he told me that when he worked in Oxford and now where I live women kept coming in saying their symptons returned on oestradose. I reported it to the yellow card and also sent an email to Besins. I got an email back from India where my oestradose had been tracked back to and they were looking into it. I havent heard back as I would have reported the findings here if anything concrete was found. I could see that a lot of women are fine on the oestradose. I changed to patches and recently had to add in some gel but estrogel. Still not found a stable balance as yet. So im a bit on the fence between the 2. What hurdity has written in length makes perfect sense but I suppose you have to go on how you are feeling.
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Yes I can see it from all viewpoints and personally too.
I'm hoping Dr Zoe etc can get to the bottom of it.
I emailed Besins at the beginning of the year and had the standard reply that they are all the same. But I know that the round canister/clear top was super effective and the shaped turquoise one wasn't for me only at double the dose.
I'm very happy with the patches now but for other ladies I'd like this sorting out.
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Hi all
Quick update, Dr Zoe has just posted this advice on Menopause Doctor, I've not found the link yet but this might be useful to print out and take to the doctor. I hope this helps x
Oestrodose
Did you know that there are two different versions of Estradiol gel on the market, Oestrogel and Oestradose?
Oestradose is a parallel import, and although both are manufactured by Besins, Oestradose is supplied to pharmacies from other companies and therefore does not stay under Besins' strict control.
We have had many reports from women who say that they experience a return of symptoms when using Oestradose, so if you would prefer to always use Oestrogel then here are a few things that may help to keep continuity of supply:
Ask your GP to put the word ?Oestrogel? on the prescription rather than 0.06% Estradiol. This is known as a ?named prescription? which entitles you to request the specific version that you wish to have dispensed.
The pharmacy can order Oestrogel from several suppliers including AAH, Alliance and Phoenix by entering the ?PIP code? 217-1775. At the time of writing there is plenty of stock in the UK.
It can be helpful to take an old bottle of whichever gel suits you to check the new prescription against, as the parallel import products are over-labelled with a sticker saying ?Oestrogel?.
Make sure you check the product whilst still in the pharmacy. If you have been given the wrong version, then as long as you haven't left the pharmacy, you are entitled to ask for a return of your paper prescription.
If you had an electronic prescription and the pharmacist is unable to dispense the version that you have requested, they can send the prescription back to 'the spine? and give you a token code. This can be taken to a different pharmacy to request a new order.
The findapharma.co.uk service may be able to help you locate a pharmacy that can order the version you prefer.
If you find that Oestrodose is effective for symptom relief then we would advise continuing with it.
If you have experienced side effects with either versions you should report these via the Yellow Card Scheme. You will need to enter the batch number of the product as well as other details such as duration of use and side effects experienced.
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I've just reported mine under Yellow Card, I put it under the 'defective ' category. Had a confirmation email back, see what happens.
Lillith.
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Hi all
Another quick update on this.
Liz Earle has done a quick podcast which includes Dr Zoe in which they discuss this issue in detail which is worth a listen https://lizearlewellbeing.com/friday-five-hrt-scandal-and-gut-health/ (https://lizearlewellbeing.com/friday-five-hrt-scandal-and-gut-health/)
I've found the leaflet you might want to take with you to the gp/pharmacy which explains the problem https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/oestrodose (https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/oestrodose)
There is a yellow card app that you can download to report if the product is not working.
You can ask your gp to put 'no PI' on your prescription. This means you won't get the parallel import inferior product.
Again, if you have no problems with Oestrodose don't worry about it.
It sounds like this is going to be an ongoing investigation now for Liz and Dr Zoe which is fantastic to finally have some umph behind it, so I'll keep you updated on any progress x
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I listened to thepodcast and looked at the leaflet. I'm afraid I find Liz Earle very annoying and actually quite irresponsible the way she talks about it as an HRT scandal. Get real FFS! it's not a scandal, it's a parallel import ie PI per se is not scandalous. People dying in care homes from Covid 19 is a scandal. Care assistants having to go to work with Covid due to lack of sick pay is a scandal. What would be scandalous would be if the company responsible for the parallel imports were pulling a fast one and eg re-labelling old stock? She starts off the podcast by saying the scandal is that it does not work which is absolute rubbish. There will be thousands of women out there perfectly happy with it. it's estradiol 0.06% gel manufactured and put in sealed pouches by Besins and their stability studies have been conducted at high temperatures: ?However, the stability studies are made on products not leaving the factory and stored in the optimum conditions for the complete shelf-life period, although we have stability studies for the following conditions: 25℃ & 30℃ for 36 months and 40℃ for 6 months.?
If the PI company (eg Chemilines) is storing it somewhere at temperatures higher than this then the product could deteriorate, or if using old stock obviously this would be illegal.
There are also other PI companies and there are equally large numbers of women who have not and do not notice any difference ? but of course like on this forum, we would not hear from them.
Like I said pretty much all of what she reports and Dr Zoe, is what I found out two years ago and you can read about on the long (meandering)thread but you?ll need to ignore some of the conspiracy theory stuff and inaccuracies on there re carbomers or something can't remember now!
Dr Zoe also was a bit confusing in the podcast because towards the end she said that Besins dealt with Oestrogel and the PI companies with Oestrodose which is not the case as you will see from my extract. Just to remind you Oestrodose is produced by Besins for other EU countries. The PI companies buy that (presumably there is more of it so it's cheaper?) and repackage it. If you had estradiol 0.06% gel prescribed in France you would get Oestrodose because they don't call it Oestrogel there. it's not a different product. Again it is not a generic.
They talk about having personalised letters from Besins rather than standardised responses ? but in fact all of my responses were personalised detailed responses to individual queries I posed in e-mails to them and were sent by named individuals. This is because it was before everyone started writing. Right early on we suggested that anyone who had problems needed to report the product under the yellow card scheme along with the batch numbers so that the product could be tested. If it was found to be either old or stored at too high a temperature for too long then it would be important to know this and as I said Besins would want to know.
Anyway it's good that people report under the yellow card scheme but not sure whether that does lead to testing? Personally I would also copy the info including the batch number and the PI company, to Besins itself so they can maybe do their own investigation.
Much of this was advised two years ago. A few of us back then did try to contact Chemilines (admittedly not by phone) but never received a reply so we were also looking to investigate this as a potential issue.
However it would be utterly wrong for anyone to listen to those podcasts and to think that they are not getting Besins 0.06% estradiol gel. The important thing for women who are sensitive to minute changes, is to stay with whatever you have been using and the advice on how to get whatever you need is helpful.
Patches will be less prone to leading to fluctuations although as already said, temperature of the skin, ambient temperature and a host of other factors will all affect how well gel is absorbed.
Dr Zoe and Liz Earle also conflated the issue of parallel imports with that of generics, which is a totally different issue. Oestrodose is not a generic.
OK that was a bit of a rant but this is not a new issue! I feel it's a bit of a bandwagon - Liz Earle's podcasts - and can get women worried when they needn't be. Hopefully we will hear if Chemilines is not storing the product as it should be stored.
Anyway enjoy your weekend girls with whatever easing of the lockdown brings for you, in terms of family and friends!
Hurdity x :)
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I've had a reply back from my yellowcard report, they will conduct an investigation to be passed onto Besins or somewhere else can't remember the name. I'm to hold onto my bottle of gel in case they want it for testing etc.
I also e-mailed Besins, but e-mail bounced back undelivered for some reason.
Lillith.
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This is a subject I have followed with great interest. I have used both products and I know that gel from an Oestrodose bottle is slightly thinner and runnier than gel from an Estrogel bottle. If the carrier gel is thinner and more watery then this will affect how it's active ingredient is absorbed. And, with gel, consistent absorption is absolutely key to controlling symptoms.
The only reason that other companies want to distribute Estrogel as a parallel import is in order to make money from distributing it. So, I suspect that these other importers might cut corners to maximise their profits. So, it could well be that their storage and transport facilities are insufficient for purpose?
When I was a patient of Prof Studd I used the private pharmacy he recommended, just off Harley Street. The pharmacists were incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. They told me that they never even stock Oestrodose because the private doctors they supplied considered it inferior to Estrogel.
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I do know there is a definite difference in the consistency of the gel between the two products. Oestrodose is definitely thinner and runnier.
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I watched the you tube video and gosh what an eye opener, I also did what she suggested by pealing the label the pharmacy put on the gel and it revealed that the oestrogel was actually ostrodose 😳
Shocking that pharmacies are allowed to do that.
I have made notes and will be mentioning it next time I put on prescription (if I don't forget ofcourse >:( )
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Everytime i have used the estradose i have got a spotty itchy skin rash on my shoulders , something i never get with Estrogel, but i have been told on more than one occassion on this site that there is no difference. I have fortunately found an independent chemist who are happy to order Estrogel in so i go there now.
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I think for those of us that re maybe more sensitive to hormones any change to our hrt has real symptoms. Some ladies are maybe not as sensitive and therefore the Oestrodose / Estrogel thing is not a problem, which is great.
It's good to have the info and tools to get what we want though x
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Everytime i have used the estradose i have got a spotty itchy skin rash on my shoulders , something i never get with Estrogel, but i have been told on more than one occassion on this site that there is no difference. I have fortunately found an independent chemist who are happy to order Estrogel in so i go there now.
Hi Tinkerbell - it is precisely this sort of reaction that is intended to be investigated under the yellow card scheme. An allergic reaction is totally different from a perceived difference in efficacy of a medication and must be reported both to the MHRA and to Besins as it would indicate potential fraud, given the provenance of the gel. It was ongoing speculation about different ingredients between the two named products that led me to contact Besins in some depth a couple of years ago, and which established that in fact (from Besins) there were no differences in ingredients or proportions, and that any differences, if there were any, would occur after the products left the manufacturers.
Hurdity x
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I watched the you tube video and gosh what an eye opener, I also did what she suggested by pealing the label the pharmacy put on the gel and it revealed that the oestrogel was actually ostrodose 😳
Shocking that pharmacies are allowed to do that.
I have made notes and will be mentioning it next time I put on prescription (if I don't forget ofcourse >:( )
Hi DS68
I think it would be shocking if a generic product manufactured by a different company were passed off as the branded product but in this case I don't feel it is shocking as such really. Having watched the video also I think unfortunately Liz E is being somewhat melodramatic and scaremongering to the many women who are perfectly happy using Besins estradiol gel whatever it's called, and it is marketed in good faith (as much as any pharma product can be ::) !)
The main point about the over-labelling as I do keep saying, is that it is a different name Oestrodose given to the same product (Besins estradiol 0.06% gel), lavelled as such for different markets. If it were different then Oestrodose would be an alternative product licensed in UK but it does not exist on the EMC database of medicines. The storage conditions or some other shady business going on, from what I gather remain a potential means of differences but that has not yet been demonstrated.
Hi GypsyRoselee!
Hope you're doing OK? If you do see a difference in texture then again this should be reported because analysis would confirm any differences.
Hurdity x
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Well I know I'm not going crazy and was one of the first people who brought up about oestrodose. I react to oestrodose and cannot use it and have filled in the yellow card. My pharmacist knows he had to get me the original estrogel but once again I've been given this month a bottle with a oestogel label stuck on the oestrodose bottle . I didn't notice straight away so started to use it and once again I had the same side effects hence I had good look at bottle and found label stuck on top!! So be careful the women like me who can't use it as they are now sticking labels on top🤷♀️
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Any HRT regime is so individual to each woman and we all react differently. This is something I didn't realise.
Arguing with someone who thinks it's codswallop is pointless and I can't be bothered.
If you know it affects you then it affects you. Who is to say it doesn't. All I want is a way for ladies to be proactive and be able to take action if they need to with some helpful resources rather than feeling helpless and having to put up and shut up.
X
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I was reading today about all the women who were not listened to or believed over the vaginal meshes and other treatments,
I'm not saying this is the same thing, but it's a bit rubbish that women continue to be disbelieved.
Even if the product is the same, the fact is that many women have noticed that it doesn't work for them. And to be dismissed is really adding to the negative experience of menopause.
Just sayin...
Jeepers xx
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Yes, I think we can all agree to disagree with a lot of this awful time of life (lots of good stuff to though).
I think we all want the best for each other and want to help in any little way we can. If something I offer up helps just one lady I'm very happy and proud x
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Thanks Bobity. I have just reported all my side effects from using Oestrodose for the past 6 weeks to the yellow card system. I was fine on Oestrogel for the previous year as all symptoms had gone. Literally every single one is back now! Very disappointed with body identical HRT at the moment. Going to order some private tests to check my hormone levels to see if Oestrodose has reduced my oestrogen levels. This product is very different - very strong smelling and watery. Thanks for posting this. I have listened to Liz Earle’s podcast which was updated again yesterday.
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Hi,
When I first went on HRT 9 months ago, I was given Estrogel by the pharmacy by my Meno clinic which lasted one month.
Since then for the past 8 months I have been on Oestrodose with the label stuck on top, as that is the version my own pharmacy has been giving me. I hadn't been feeling much better and actually came off HRT 2 months ago to see how I felt.
BUT the VA and hot flushes got worse again so I did a bit more reading on here and found issues regarding the gels.
I read with interest Dr Louise Newson's article on her Menopausedoctor website as mentioned by Bobidy.
I printed out the article along with a picture of the Estrogel bottle and took it to my pharmacist who very kindly agreed to order the correct one. So I have now resumed my HRT 5 days ago using Estrogel and have noticed it is a different consistency and seems smoother?
The Oestrogel seemed to be more watery with bubbles in it and came out spluttery?
Donna-paul I know some on here say there is no difference, but I shall see if I notice any difference in my symptoms like you?
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Hi all,
I have been using oestrogel with great success for the last 10 months. Today I was given oestrodose for the first time by the pharmacist. Having read all the bad experiences ladies on this site have had with it I asked to be given my prescribed oestrogel. He told me it was the same. I told him about all the bad experiences ladies have had on it and I didn't want to take chances with it. He then said and I quote ' Don't take this the wrong way but its probably down to placebo effect.' I asked if he was suggesting menopausal women were imagining their symptoms and that my symptoms were severe enough for me to have to stop work. I responded by saying, 'Don't take this the wrong way but you're a man!'. I basically have to wait now to get a new prescription and take it to a different pharmacist who isn't an offensive, condescending jerk . Outrageous!
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I have been told by one pharmacy that there is no difference but the one i now go to, they always order in the Estrogel for me, said i wasn't the only one who had complained about a return of symptoms. Fortunately she just listened and said she would note on my records that i preferred the Estrogel, she has been true to her word and i get that every time now without having to request it.
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Well this story is going to run and run. As yet there have been no confirmed differences whatsoever from what I understand, but reporting under the yellow card scheme will determine if there is any funny business going on with parallel importers. Julia Dizzy - the pump mechanism is a whole different area, although the dosage will have been tested by Besins or if a parallel importer, the product licence would surely not have been granted if not exactly the same gel dose dispensed?
The main thing is - if you want one with packaging named as oestrogel, or packaging named as oestrodose - depending on preference, then ask for it!
Hurdity x
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Just want to add that Oestrodose over 2 months has not given me a monthly bleed, just a tiny bit of spotting and no pad needed, it's also given me mid cycle spotting and the most horrific vaginal and bladder atrophy that has made it almost impossible for me to leave the house. Friday I'm off for a urodynamic test. I was fine for 8 months on patches. :'(.
Lillith.