Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: Jari on March 10, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
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We know that there is nearly a four times difference in the incidence of BC between Western women and Asian women and in the east the women eat very little (if any) dairy foods.
Dairy products naturally contain a substance called IGF-1 but the levels are high in pregnant cows. It is designed to stimulate growth and stimulate cells to divide and multiply and has been implicated in BC. There is such a high commercial scale now for cows breast milk and so nowadays they are milked whilst pregnant. During pregnancy their levels of estrogen are much higher so the dairy foods we eat contain high amounts of this hormone.
When dairy is eaten as cheese, it has an acidic effect on the body and will cause calcium to be leached from your bones, so this is not a good form of dairy after the menopause.
If you are opting for a non hrt menopause and are concerned about estrogen receptive cancer and osteoporosis then maybe think about cutting out dairy products. ?! X
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Hi Jari,
This topic has come up before and I did some research then. The evidence isn't clear or definitive though. Also the problem with cutting out dairy is bone health as I understood it to be the best foods for protection. Young girls that go dairy free are at high risk. That could be a really dilemma for some people as calcium supplements are not very efficient.
Personally I love dairy foods, milk, cheese, cream etc., I have good bone health (no osteoporosis in the family either) and no breast cancer in the family, except for one cousin who is a smoker anyway.
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Hi Shadyglade
Yes I think some women are more at risk to BC and/or Osteo.
I have cut down massively with dairy, but it totally depends on how you feel with your own body and the effects, if any.
I always used to think cheese was good for calcium, but it seems to have the opposite effect.
Calcium rich, non dairy foods include:
Almonds, black beans, broccoli, brown rice, cabbage, chickpeas, eggs, figs, hazelnuts, sardines, soya, walnuts, sunflower seeds, quinoa, spring greens.... x
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Just shows how important a good diet is. My son had a girlfriend who was vegetarian but didn't like veg. Total nightmare and her diet was terrible, bulked out with starchy carbs. I don't predict a healthy old age for her.
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So true. Diet is so important whether you choose to eat animals or are vegetarian or vegan. All of these choices can be bad diets if we do not choose a good balance. If she is only eating starchy carbs, that is not good. X
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Can't be vegetarian if one doesn't eat veg. :-\
I had breast disease. In 1995. [I think]. Found in a lump removed from the breast. I was raised on whole milk, no skimmed etc. in my day ;D: fresh fruits, veg., all in season. Lots of meat and 2/3 veg.; eggs, beans on toast, game ......... milk puddings, soups made from chicken bones.
How many women in Asia compared with in the UK? I continue with a mixed diet. A little of what I fancy ;)
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In May of last year, I had an apt with the practice Nurse at my surgery....I was told my cholesterol level was high ...6.8 I think was mentioned. My Dad had died of heart disease at 60 ..... Nurse suggested that I should cut all dairy from my diet....milk, butter, cheese, chocolate....pies, cakes,etc.
I did .... because she frightened me. I lost weight. I looked better. I began to think how badly I had eaten before and became quite strict with myself making sure these bad fats wouldn't clog my arteries.
In September I had a nasty UTI, I was prescribed Antibiotics. October/NovemberDecember/January/February....many antibiotics later....I think I have - I HAVE, vaginal atrophy.
My body has dried out like a sun dried dog t**d.
Was this caused by the low cholesterol diet?
Did I wring out the last drops of moisture from my body with this stupid diet?
Sat thinking about it last night ....I really believe I did.
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I would not think so Kmorris.
I do not eat animals and am cutting back on dairy very much. Rarely have any now, but I do eat good fats. Good oils like rapeseed oil, olive oil etc. Get plenty of omega 3 etc..
I hope you get some luck with the Yes product. X
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However: oil and fat are different :-\
Fat is usually an animal-based product ............
kmorris: what was the Nurse basing her knowledge on and did she offer you an appt. with a dietician. Then missed VA >:( par for the course?
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There are good fats and there are bad fats CLKD. Fats from animals are the bad for us fats! :)
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CLKD,
I have lost all confidence with my GP surgery, and judging by the comments of the patients in the waiting room, I am not alone.
The Nuse was reading off her computer and looking at cholesterol numbers and age groups, apparently I had flagged up red. I was given a couple of sheets of paper to take home and read about high cholesterol which she had downloaded from Google.
An appt with a dietitian? ;D CLKD....I would be so lucky.
I asked a Nurse last week if I could speak to someone with regards to menopause issues and mentioned my concern re. Vaginal Atrophy....she said " how do you spell Atrophy?" she went on to say they don't have a Nurse that deals with menopause as such but *Anne, is the oldest here so you can have a chat with her on Friday afternoon.
* Not her real name.
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Nowt to lose though? then ask for a referral to a menopause clinic ?
Fats from animals ::) - where else does one get fats from :-\. My Grandparents lived on pork dripping on toast [not literally], lots of hard work and exercise so fats were burned up as Nature intended. Lots of meat/veg and thick puddings made from scratch. They lived into their early 70s/late 80s ;-)
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Obvious the BMSociety message still ain't getting through :-X
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Thanks Sparkle! ;)
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Hello ladies.
There is a lot of information online if anyone is interested in researching the best diet for them. My favourite site is NutritionFacts.Org
We make our own cholesterol, all animals do, so there is no need to eat extra if we are worried about clogging our arteries.
I haven't eaten meat, eggs or dairy for years then developed VA within a few weeks of coming off HRT so I'm pretty sure that was the cause for me.
Wishing you well ladies.
K.
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We know that there is nearly a four times difference in the incidence of BC between Western women and Asian women and in the east the women eat very little (if any) dairy foods.
Dairy products naturally contain a substance called IGF-1 but the levels are high in pregnant cows. It is designed to stimulate growth and stimulate cells to divide and multiply and has been implicated in BC. There is such a high commercial scale now for cows breast milk and so nowadays they are milked whilst pregnant. During pregnancy their levels of estrogen are much higher so the dairy foods we eat contain high amounts of this hormone.
When dairy is eaten as cheese, it has an acidic effect on the body and will cause calcium to be leached from your bones, so this is not a good form of dairy after the menopause.
If you are opting for a non hrt menopause and are concerned about estrogen receptive cancer and osteoporosis then maybe think about cutting out dairy products. ?! X
Perhaps you could come up with some proper scientific studies to back this up seeing it goes against established thinking? Trying to frighten people into a vegan diet isn't on IMO.
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Hi Jari
I am assuming that your post is quoted from elsewhere rather than entirely your own words? If that is the case usual practice is to put in quotes or italics unless your own words and more importantly quote the source, so that we can all find and read the info for ourselves? This would be really helpful! :)
As Shadyglade says there is unlikely to be any causal relationship established and so the data cannot be used to prove anything.
Being too fat and drinking too much are high risks for breast ( and other cancers) and I would suggest from what I've read that women would be far better off severely limiting alcohol intake and getting your BMI into the healthy range rather than eliminating these valuable food items from your diet (unless you are sensitive of course!). There are plenty of low fat versions.
Kmorris - what nonsense advice from your nurse. Total Ch is too simplistic. My last 3 (total) cholesterol readings have been 6.5, 6.8, 6.7. No action needed. There have been detailed discussions about this issue on a couple of cholesterol therads in the Other Health Section. I suggest you search for them and possibly make your points there because it is important to discuss this but it's off topic for this board really.
Hurdity x
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I seem to get question marks when I do the quote thing.
Anyway, it is my gut feeling, but also there is plenty out there for anyone to search and read if they want to. Eg:
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/milk-and-cheese-increase-risk-breast-cancer
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/cows-milk-may-increase-risk-breast-cancer
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Olive oil is an oil.
I forget nuts and I love most especially Brazils - even better when covered with chocolate :-*. I had breast disease even though I was anorexic from the age of 3. Even though I ate healthy food when Dad could encourage me to eat. A little of what we fancy - we are evolved to eat a varying diet including meat, at least that's why my teeth R as they are.
I have '?' too at times >:(
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I love Brazil nuts too CLKD, even better covered in chocolate! ;)
Kathleen, I really like Nutrition facts too.
I do not know how to put video links on here and I know dairy link with BC and general health is controversial, but if anyone is interested, go to Nutritionfacts.org and search :
The effects of hormone in dairy milk on cancer.
Each to their own, but I have reduced dairy a lot. I prefer plant based milks and I know CLKD not to call them milks, but I can't think what else to call them. 😂
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Just a further read re Osteoporosis..
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/healthy-eating/calcium-and-bone-health.htm
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190521075058.htm
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There is the opinion that full fat milk is a high fat food. This is not really true as a high fat food has a fat content of 5% or more. Full fat milk is 3%. Low fat dairy products tend to add sugar such as in yoghurt.
As for hormones in milk, in the UK hormones are not given to our livestock as they are in the USA. It's not legal to do so here. In addition the hormones produced by the cow are bovine specific and we do not have the receptors for them to be absorbed in our bodies.
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Hi Shadyglade
It is an interesting subject and I just do not like the thought of it with my high risk estrogen receptive breast cancer family history so I am steering clear of dairy.
It seems that the hormones in dairy have increased very much as the cows are now kept permanently pregnant and milked whilst pregnant, when their own hormones are much higher.
To be honest, hormones aside, I just do not like the thought of it and would rather have plant milks.. x
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Plants however do NOT have milk. Coconut 'milk' is processed: the inside meaty white stuff is compressed and squeezed. There is a liquid in most coconuts which is nice to drink and which our family calls 'milk' but in reality it ain't.
Plants that have a sap may well be poisonous ::)
I had breast disease. Etc.. Etc.. Etc.. ........... I didn't have anyone in the family with breast problems. My Mum's cancer was totally different from the one that I had.
Hormones are of course natural.
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Hurdity, agreed, it is also very wise to keep alcohol consumption and bmi within the recommended limits.
I feel very healthy with the diet/lifestyle that I have chosen.
I have not eaten animals for almost 30 years, but in the last two years I have reduced coffee intake to 1-2 cups in morning only, raised my omega 3 intake, my bmi is in the middle of the recommended bracket, alcohol is maybe a couple of glasses of wine at weekends which are both well within recommended levels. I also do not have much dairy at all, very rarely. Possibly when I am in a restaurant and a sauce happens to have a bit of milk but I never have at home and I also have very good energy levels. My sleep has really improved in the last year too. I did get night sweats about a year after last period, but always slept well before these.
My menopause symptoms have been very short lived. 2 years and peaked in the middle.
We are all very different and make different choices, but I think we all know our own bodies the best and what works for us. X